posted
If money is no object. What is the best vinyl out there. Let's rule out specialty films and reflectives. What's the longest lasting brand for most colors in terms of color, stability and toughness. That's the vinyl I'm interested in. I don't care about the cost.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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I always had great luck with Arlon products. I had a local distributor for many years, until about 5 years ago. The product line always impressed me, and held up great.
More recently, my local distributor has carried 2 other major brands,...let's just call them "Brand O" and now "Brand A", and I've yet to be completely happy with either.
Brian
Posts: 465 | From: / | Registered: Jan 2000
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I'm afraid that I don't have time to elaborate at the moment but I think you might want to expand your criteria to include such things as "ease of use" in weeding and application, "ease of removal" (where applicable)...and brand equity in your marketplace.
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Come on Bill, this is a loaded question The best vinyl is what's best suited for the job, the client's budget and your profit. That being said I've found that high performance cast from 3M and Arlon/Calon II worked the best. Sparcal - now Avery, was a close 2nd. The jury's still out on Avery's products though. I've only recently started using them on a regular basis. As far as I was concerned, the rest really didn't compare, but, I used them when the job called for it.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Just out of curiousity, are all vinyls created equally? Does a question which asks which is best always answered in what that particular person uses or do I sense that, that person uses what they consider the best or the least expensive while still doing the job. Are 3M, Gerber, whatever products considered the best or just the most expensive? I've always wondered why persons use particular products bought at Wal-Mart type stores to be used in their business then have problems with them while confusing the notion, they are made the same. Since I don't particularly do the vinyl thing but do, do the trans mask thing, I find Gerber thus far to be the best, least troublesome in the 15 or so years I've used a mask. Surely someone here can give a non biased opinion on what the best vinyl is
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
With best, I'm referring to longevity, color and gloss retention. This is kind of a follow-up question on the Oracal 651 post. I have always assumed that high performance cast vinyl is the top of the line from each individual brand. I'm sure some brand's calendered vinyl is superior to another brand's high performance, but I don't know. I always thought 3M's HP cast vinyl in metallic silver and gold was superior, but I may be wrong. I have found it hard to get 3M products from the vendors I use. If you're talking weedability, I would give the nod to Avery's 8yr HP.
Currently I am using Avery's 8yr HP, Calon II and some 3M, but was interested in what others thought about Oracle's 751 which is also supposed to be 8yr.
My semi work requires rugged paints and vinyls, because they go through some extremes that other vehicles don't & often times they're washed with very caustic cleaners. So I want the best and hardiest and don't give a bleep about cost. For the little bit I use on each semi, it really doesn't matter. 5 years on a semi is like 7-10 years on other vehicles.
Most vinyl we put down dry, but I've read articles about using Rapid Tack that have me wonder what is the best application method when you're talking longevity. I'm just curious what others are experiencing. I'm really not trying to put anybody on the spot, because if you apply enough vinyl, sooner or later you're going to have a problem or two.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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I have been using the Avery premiums (now A8) for years with no problems. It holds up great here in the North East. I think we have a similar environment as Ill.2 with extreme heat/sun in the summer and cold winters each year.
Just a few weeks ago we removed the lettering from my friend's van that was done about 5 years ago. It still looked really good. No nastyness around the edges of the graphics and it still had a nice shine to it.
This guy, we call him Nubs lol, is very particular about his stuff and would have been the first to tell me if there was anything not up to par. He was surprised and commented on how well the materials held up. He cleaned and maintained the vehicle and graphics regularly which I think helps.
I have also used it on trailers loaded with rivits and they have held up well too.
Since I haven't used any of the other brands I can't comment on them but for a long lasting brand in terms of color, stability and toughness I would recommend the Avery A8.
2¢
Alan
-------------------- Alan Ackerson LetterWorks Design and Graphics alan@ack2.com Posts: 776 | From: Oak Ridge, NJ | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Avery has (or had) a tougher 12 year film for fleet graphics, but the series name escapes me right now.
If you want the graphics to be tough and withstand the caustic chemicals, you can overlaminate with Convex Supreme clear laminate. It's thicker and designed to resist petroleum and other chemicals.
I've been testing the Convex out on race-built jetskis and so far it's bulletproof. I just put the clear film over the Avery graphics, and have been testing the graphics out right on the bottom of the hull's running surface and where they will get soaked by VP's racing fuel.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
My preferences lie towards Avery and 3M. Both in intermediate calendared and hi performance cast. In the 12 years I have been using them I have only had one failure and that was actually a result of some clown acid washing his highway tractor.
So far no failures, other than that.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Hi there I have used a good few vinyls over the last 14 years. Started out with spandex cast range for about 4 years maybe more.. moved onto mactac for around 6 years but still do use it to this day but my main material of choice is oracal 751. Last year our company did a contract lettering 1600 vehicles for Cable using 3M control tac. Nice rubber feel to the vinyl, although I did not have any bother I was contacted by various signmakers around the UK having bother with it doing the a mirror of our contract but in theor area.. (Could it be down to the applicator?) I lettered around 50 vehicles for JCB using Avery (grade I don’t know) I hated the stuff.. Wish I had took note of the grade.. I found it less than forgiving and had shiny spots here and there. I found the surface had a sort of uneven sheen to it also. (in fairness, I could have been using a low grade Avery, but I doubt it for contract work like this) Both the work done in 3M & Avery was not cut or prepared by us. It was sent from a large sign company in England for us to apply only. Spandex CAST vinyl was good. They had a great range of colours but in my opinion it is over priced along with 3M. I have tried many brands of vinyl but none long enough to give an honest opinion on other than the above. If I had to rank value for money it would be oracal 751 then mactac 9800. Two excellent vinyls that conform great on uneven surfaces. Both very good all-rounders, but oracal has a slight advantage on how far it can me manipulated in awkward uneven vehicle applications. Both have very good surfaces to print onto and have a nice high gloss finish. Oracal 751 is graded as a 7-year plus vinyl but will soon be upgraded again very soon! I am currently trying oracal 851 cast.. Haven’t used it on any real work yet so ill keep you posted. First impressions are excellent range of colours, weeds and lifts perfectly.. It is of higher quality than the 751 (SO IM TOLD) if this is the case I have no doubt it will be hard to beat. Again the costs are very low compared to some.
-------------------- Robert Lambie Glasgow Scotland UK
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I don't use a lot of vinyl, but I have found that for truck/vehicle lettering, 3M 7725, high performance cast, with the clear liner is what I use. The extra cost pays for itself with the clear liner, as I can do multi color images in one application very easily. It has proven itself to hold up as well.
I always warn people about truck/car washes. The "no touch" deals use strong solvents to do the washing, which is what will age the lettering prematurily.
I have designed a small "thank you" letter that explains this to the customer as well as some tips for maintaining the job, which I leave in the vehicle.
-------------------- Curt Stenz Graphics 700 Squirrel Lane Marathon, WI 54448 Posts: 591 | From: Marathon, WI 54448 | Registered: Dec 1998
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Calon II by Arlon High Performance 2mil cast.
I've tried others cheaper and more expensive but found Arlon to be the best for my shop, location, climate, etc.
For me another consideration is color selection and Arlon has a wide variety.
Big Daddy
-------------------- -------------------- Dave Cox C2 Media Services (Formerly That Sign Guy) dave@c2mediaservices.com -------------------- Full Color Printing Posts: 295 | From: Sacramento CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3819 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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