posted
i know no beggin for clipart...i can build me one, but anybody ever cut a fred flintstone/barney? would appreciate one...but if not i can get a coloring book....tomarrow
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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And typical of the do what I say but not what I do kind of residents who visit this BB and change the laws as it suits them. Aren't these characters copywrited and isn't this site against giving these copywrited cartoons and clipart to those who ask? What is the difference between these characters and those of the Calvin ones? Maybe I don't understand the do's and don'ts of the laws of Letterville but do understand those who religiously break the rules to suit their needs when its just as easy to buy a friggin comic book and trace the darn character. And Joe, aren't we as residents supposed to be examples to those who are visitors? I understand we are not perfect, but at least use a little diplomacy and next time you need some clipart, email your needs to those who you know may have it, hehehehehe
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
Hey Joey I agree OP even said I know I shouldn't ask for it, But here I am asking for it? HE knows he's wrong, but what gets me as "professional artists" we hate to have our work pirated, but have no problem stealing others work, and if you are going to steal others work I'd think that being in this business that you'd be able to scan and clean it up yourself so everyone doesn't know that you are infringing on protected images. I'd like to see the release form allowing OP to use these images for a job..... oh wait if he had a release I would imagine that Hanna Barbera would be able to provide him with workable art.... It is amazing to me I live in a area that is blessed with some VERY creative businesses, Dark Horse comics, Will Vinton Studios (ever see the California Raisin) and if any of these companies saw that we reproduced images that we did not have authorization they would NEVER do business with us. And that's how you make the big bucks, doing repeat business with the big boys. It just frustrates me.....
If we act and behave as professionals we will be treated and paid as professionals.
-------------------- Dan Streicher Slidell, LA Posts: 445 | From: Slidell, LA | Registered: Feb 2004
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I believe you could maybe find one in a program called Print Artist...its a bout $49.95 and its a great little program.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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well... all i got to say is...PUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT(THATS A RAPSBERRY). i got a guy who wants it, told him of the copywrite problems. he still wants it....ive done my part to enlighten him to having these on his truck. told him ....to tell anyone askin wher he got em ..that he did them himself.!!!!! now i said i can get a coloring book and make my own, i can draw them ........ all i need is black outline.....jon. so yea i shouldnt ask, but how many of us have some one piece youve done and never use? i got a full color cutable taz if anyone needs it.. i made it......i do a lot of baseball field signs and got more logos that ill never use again from them....if i see some one askin for something in particular, and i got it ill help em out....but i cant do anything for ones who are looking for say an indian, cowboy, western, mexican, horse, cow, pig, etc..there areto many variables.
[ March 25, 2004, 01:31 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Wayne, customers themselves give me the artwork exactly in the size and color they want on paper. I just never ask on this BB. As far as copywritten artwork as it is, I sent a check to Mental health on my behalf
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
So THAT must be why Hanna-Barbera isn't having me do all their work - they suspect I've got their funny books making signs out of them. Dang! How'd they find out???
I ain't axing fer any more free stuff - I'm Turning Over A New Leaf = gonna have LetterHead Integrity. Shame on you, OP - Posts: 1859 | From: / | Registered: Nov 1998
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am doing the van today, with fred on the front doors.....the client knows about the copyright, and says he will take the heat on it..."he wants what he wants".....and if anyone wants some cartoon clipart....jut like corp logos...its free here: http://cartoonfiles.truhgoy.com/clipart/ some one sent me the link.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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This is tooooo funny!.. ... There are "levels" of justification for ripping off copyrighted art.
Some say it's ok as long as you inform the client that it is copyrighted and illegal. If they still want it after the explanation, then you're justified in copying it.
Others say it's ok to do it as long as you email the person privately and share the files...but don't ask on the board....that somehow makes it ethical.
Yet others say it's ok to rip off artwork as long as you "redraw or trace" it yourself!
Hahahaha...and then the ripoffs have the guts to criticize the other ripoffs for their unacceptable justification for copyright infringement!
Ok, so it's agreed we are all imperfect. But let's just say we are ALL hypocrites and have used some copyrighted material...me included. Yes it is wrong. But let's not hide behind some pathetic excuse as to how ripping it off in a certain way makes it right.
I've often thought it interesting how incarcerated crimminals have a pecking order. A murderer in prison somehow thinks his crime is more respectable than a rapist or child molester. And certain crimes are looked down upon by those who committed other crimes. Freaky.
Oh, and for the record....a big part of how I learned to draw was by tracing and drawing comic book characters....and Fred was one of the main ones. I could draw him with my eyes closed. Alas, I too can be herded into the guilty column.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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When in this world the headlines read of those whose hearts are full of greed Who rob and steal from those in need To right these wrongs with lightning speed.. Comes UNDERDOG!
Watch out...Underdog is gonna get you! Hahahahahahaha
OP...you especially, you kind of look like Simon Bar Sinister! Hehehehe
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Todd, something tells me that you really haven't a clue.
The difference between copying a copywritten anything on someones sign or vehicle and lets say screen printing a 100 t-shirts using a disney character is the difference between day and night. One is for personal use and one is personal gain, the difference between personal use and personal gain is the lawsuit you so dread. Checking into this type of copywrite infringement further then most have, I've found that most everyone copys something, right down to the letter style, simply called the Font, you all take for granted.
A statement from Bobbo Dunn, a former Disney cartoonist said that any art copied or painted in large quanities will be dealt with to the fullest penalty of the law and also added that the customer probably bought something that he or she wants you to duplicate and since a one of a kind cartoon, there will be no problem as long as its done in good taste and doesn't harm or deface the image. Also added was that most other companies follow the same rules and and in fact as its done tastefully will only advertise for said image and its company.
Whether or not you believe any of this is up to you, but each time you copy something from Signcraft or the internet you are embarking on copywrite enfringement as everything from the time it is produced, drawn or made is copywrited from that day no matter who drew it, built it or made it.
I made my reply to Joe as a joke as we're friends as we both go to the same church but on different days, Saint Mattress
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
I am one of the people that criticized OP for this, I ABSOLUTELY HATE it when anyone steals my work and unfortunately it has happened and if it hasn't happened to you I hope it never does it sucks, not only do I make my living from creative thoughts I take pride in them and sometimes I am hurt by being ripped off. I can honestly say that I have never used anyones art without permission, sometimes I have paid large sums to be able to use someone elses art and if it is worth it to my customers great we all make money we all do ethical business and we aren't worrying about being caught for something that we shouldn't be doing. Personally I don't care what anyone does in regards to this matter....I know what is right (we all do) and I just want everyone to think about it, wouldn't you want to be paid for the use of your art? and when you are rich and famous from it, do you still want to be paid for it? (of course) so I don't even except the argument that I sometimes hear that they have already made loads of money for it or that a company (hanna barbera) owns it now...tell yourself whatever you need to so that you can feel better about what you are doing..but you know the truth.
I will tell you that I have been inspired (as we all have) by anything and almost everything imaginable, so there is very few completely unique ideas, but I create my own based on inspiration, that is what makes me a professional. If you are relying on your copying abilities or your next clipart collection that you can buy, maybe you should consider hiring a creative artist for your business or maybe you should find a new line of work. just my opinion. But it is also my opinion that stealing is stealing
-------------------- Dan Streicher Slidell, LA Posts: 445 | From: Slidell, LA | Registered: Feb 2004
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you ever hear the saying "there is nothing new, only something old being redone"? as tood was saying and as joey made a point of.....WE ALL COPY SOMEONE ELSES creative work!!!! as todd said and most here that can and do draw....THIS IS HOW WE LEARNED!!! me, i was caught up with "big daddy roth"!!!!! i dont know how many "rat fink" drawings i did in high school...and i did them for art class and got A's for everyone i did!!!! if i wasnt drawing that it was cars, it was airplanes. most of the stuff we do is copying. on this van i also used the FONT for the FLINSTONES!!! now we all use fonts that are someones "creative product". but we dont think anything of it. i have told the story here couple times of me being caught doin a "garfield" picture on a tow truck......and the guy(dik brown) who was upset about me doin it... was jim davis(garfield creator) dik's next door neighbor!!! so i know what its like getting caught with my hand in the cookie jar. ive never been one of those "hollier then thou" people...i get upset with people not having the "basic clipart" to be in this business. if your in this line of work...you should have a library of clipart in the 1000's!! corel has 200,000, art explosion 750,000, print artist 400,000, vector art you can buy one at a time, art today same thing. i told someone that ARTS & LETTERS EXPRESS has a bunch of WW 2 AIRPLANES, which they was lookin for. i can draw and i got over a MILLION pieces of clipart!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Well Joey, I do have a clue. While your disney cartoonist friend rightly says that Disney isn't interested in "going after" some guy that uses their copyrighted images a couple of times...this does not make it legal to do so. It simply means that Disney has bigger fish to fry.
You seem to operate on a system based on the notion that "it's ok as long as I know I won't get caught". Justify it anyway that makes you sleep good at night....is the operative phrase here.
Now hear me out...all I'm saying is that we should admit that reproducing copyrighted material is wrong and there is NO way to justify it short of getting a waiver from the original owner. And if we really have the gemstones, we should admit it's wrong and quit doing it. I lump myself in this category of hypocrisy. No question about it. I'm simply verbalizing what I know to be right, true, and ethical.
Integrity: Doing what's right even when no one's watching.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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So.......I guess this means that any of you musicians out there better not play any more Beatle songs without sendeing a few bucks to Michael Jackson. Hey! No more cover bands. From this day forward, everyone can only play original tunes........and they better not sound like any of mine, or else I'm tellin'.....
-------------------- Mike"Spud"Kelly zipperhead design Westminster, MA Posts: 367 | From: Westminster, MA | Registered: Mar 2001
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.......so that means that the Smith Street Allstar Tuba Quintet should pay thousands of dollars a year to play a couple of Yanni tunes and "Girl from Ipanema" down at the local Amvets.
-------------------- Mike"Spud"Kelly zipperhead design Westminster, MA Posts: 367 | From: Westminster, MA | Registered: Mar 2001
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[ March 28, 2004, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: Bill Biggs ]
-------------------- Bill & Barbara Biggs Art's Sign Service, Inc. Clute, Texas, USA Home of The Great Texas Mosquito Festival Proud 10 year Supporter of the Letterheads Website www.artssigns.com "MrBill-" on the chat page MailTo:biggsbb@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1020 | From: Lake Jackson,Tx | Registered: Nov 1998
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OK lets start with the Tuba players....I think it is fine to play a famous bands music, I do not think it would be ok to record it and sell then sell it. As far as OP and your little saying about there is nothing new...blah blah blah...well I kind of touched on that, but I do think that there is lots of new things, and to be honest with you as a group of creative people I bet that there are many of us that come up with NEW ideas everyday...sorry you dont....bummer. But as I said I am inspired by many different things, I was reading Cisco's website and he tells of taking photos of things on his trip that inspired him, we should all do the same and then when we need creative ideas on a subject we have something to reflect on but don't copy it, myself that doesn't give me any pleasure.
Hey Joey I'm glad that you are rich and famous! Don't know why you feel the need to tell us all that...but OK whatever, I guess uhm CONGRATULATIONS!
Really I don't care what anyone does in this I am finding this to be a VERY FUNNY thread, I can not imagine that anyone here would be very happy driving down the road and seeing someone painting a mural on the side of a building that you painted yourself and had displayed in your office. We all know what is right and it is comical that in your minds you can justify this and beyond that think that you have a valid argument for this type of behavior, I surely can not imagine any of you telling your children that it is fine to copy other peoples work or better yet telling your children that not only is it ok to copy someone elses work but that it is also ok to make money off of it. So do all the justification you need to, to make you feel that this is OK. But maybe it will inspire someone to create their own artwork...and then sell it, it does feel very good when someone wants to buy artwork that you created yourself. Oh and it also sets you apart from that "sticker guy down the street with all the clipart that types everything into his computer thingie that does all the work for him that no one can believe that he charges for artwork and is stealing your customers by giving lowball prices and copying all your work and doesn't have any original ideas ..blah blah blah and all that other bs" that somepeople are always whining about.
-------------------- Dan Streicher Slidell, LA Posts: 445 | From: Slidell, LA | Registered: Feb 2004
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dan i come up with a lot of ...ideas, thats my job and i been doing it full time since 86. and before that part time. now you take the MORAL HIGH GROUND good for you!!! you will rewarded in heaven. now i live in the real world. i agree with bill biggs..thats a 1st also hehehehe hi bill. i did my job i told the client the sins of his request....but alas..the DEVIL MADE HIM DO IT...he wants what he wants...i said this before. and i addressed the FONT question...you wont touch it...but ramble on about your moral code. if you have never done a COPY of any thing....your aint been in this "business" very long or you dont do anything but helvetica or brush hand vinyl. i know signpainter who wont do signs for certain churches,bars, booze, wiskey, cigarettes, strip joints, lawerys, real estate people or used car lots!!!! i fall in there with a couple of afore mentioned. ypu have never done a FORD, CHEVY, PONTIAC, RACE CAR NUMBER, 3, 6, 8, 10, OR A 43.... you must have not done much. this is a "business" and money runs most of them. so after ive done my part of copyright eduction to the customer....it falls on his MORAL CODE, not mine. i was doing a job for another sign guy, and he brought me the panels and a business card to work from. on the card was EASYRIDER in its specific font, the little motorcycle and thats what i had to work from. i looked everywhere for the font, but itss a "graphic rendition" and not a COPYABLE font. so i get on the phone and call EASYRIDER head office. boy did i make a boo boo!!!!! i tell them what iam doing, the tell me "cease and desist" in no uncertain terms. then they tell me that this person has not completed the application for the licensing right of setting up an EASYRIDER CLOTHING store and that they cant put up signs. so i inform the other sign person of this..he say make em....i did i got paid...i never saw them go up anywhere...but i got paid for my time. so i know of what can happen when you do things that aint legal. this situation was out of my controll and i did what i was asked....i think i might a really caused them to come after the persons who was gona do theis.....and thats a good thing.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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so........if I paint a 3" rendering of Tweedy Pie on the tailgate of my pick-up, I should first call up Warner Bros. and get the o.k., right? If I don't, am I in trouble? How 'bout if I also have Micky Mouse? Do I have to call Mike Eisner also?.........now I gotta go and paint over the Lion King characters I painted on my Daughter's bedroom walls last month........hope she's not too bummed.
-------------------- Mike"Spud"Kelly zipperhead design Westminster, MA Posts: 367 | From: Westminster, MA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Hey OP I'm not worried about heaven and all that crap, I too live in the real world and I do what I need to do everyday to be able to look myself in the mirror at the end of the day, just like I said before don't give a hoot what you do in your life at all....this is just my opinion about copying others work and everyone is free to do whatever they choose to with it.
I have reproduced many companies artwork with their permission. I'm just not making "Brand X" decals at a swap meet or for accents on Joe Blows pickup. Not my chosen path to make my living.
Just to clarify I've been in this business for half of my life and it's been very good and profitable to me.
-------------------- Dan Streicher Slidell, LA Posts: 445 | From: Slidell, LA | Registered: Feb 2004
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dan, all this MORAL CRAP you spout and i go to youre web page http://www.strikerandstriker.com/ and the first thing i see is GET YOU MOTOR RUNNIN, stepinwolf give you his PERMISSION? then the sound comes on...OF A HARLEY...are you aware that harley hold a copywrite on that sound???? yae look in the mirror and you look just like the rest of us.end of conversation.
[ March 29, 2004, 02:43 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
sad truth is OP just listed the entire contents of the on-line presence or "Mr. Creative" here... one borrowed slogan... one borrowed sound-clip.. period, end of story... all she wrote.
posted
Mike....technically speaking, if you were to create that image and sell it someone else, yes you do.
Because the company that owns that trademarked character sells decals and by doing it and selling it yourself...you are theoretically depriving said company of a sale of their trademarked product and competing against them using something you don't own.
To simply copy it, and put it on your own tailgate where no financial gain was derived from it's recreation? Technically you probably still should, but I highly doubt that that is a problem for them.
For me..mainly, it is the justification of copying and selling a trademarked image that is unethical.
Bill and OP are dead wrong when they say their responsibility ends with simply informing the customer of the legality of having trademarked art commissioned, reproduced, and displayed on their vehicle.
Bill and OP are largely responsible and culpable for the act of creating, selling, and profiting from a copyrighted image that legally belongs to someone else.
Their argument of washing their hands of responsibility by informing the customer prior to the act does not hold water.
It's like saying a drug dealer cannot be prosecuted for selling illegal drugs simply because he informs the client that the drugs are illegal. This does not relieve the drug dealer of the responsibility of his intent to sell and distribute an illegal substance.
Excuses, justifications, and misinformation are nothing more than lies you convince yourself of to bridge the threshold of guilt to a level of acceptance you can live with. Relieve the conscience of a certain amount of burden.
This type of conscious self manipulation is typical of the type of person who would not turn in a wallet they found on the street with cash intact or inform and give back a cashier change they they were overpaid.
OP...you talk about taking the Moral Highground as if it is a bad thing?!
We're better than an opportunistic dog that charges for every little scrap of food that falls from the kitchen table aren't we?
Do you take cash from a job...stick it in your pocket and never claim it on your taxes? That's a real easy one to justify.
What else do you justify and why?
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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OP...now that's a stretch. "Get your motor running" isn't the title of the song, simply a phrase which I highly doubt Steppinwolf has trademarked or even COULD trademark. I suspect that phrase is a typical American cliche that originated from wallstreet or who-knows-where.
It's no different than the catchphrase you use: "Moral Highground". Someone other than you first coined that phrase....
The Harely sound clip? It could be a Harley or it could be a custom chopper engine. Who knows...unless you specialize in the audio field and have actually compared the sound frequencies of his clip to that of a known Harley clip.
Harley may have a copyright on the sound of their muffler noise...but I bet it's in relation to other manufacturer's not being allowed to duplicate it in a competitive setting and most likely is directed at the manufacturing process.
And if you want to be really picky, you (and I) are in violation of using the name Harley in our posts without including a registration mark next to their name and also including a disclaimer at the end of the post stating that "Harley is a registered trademark of the Harley Davidson Corporation."
Now...let's all go cut Calvin's and sell them for beer money.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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hey OP by the way that is the sound of one my harleys, by the way Harley Davidson is one of the companies that I have reproduced their logo with permission many times, and items that we put up on that website are a few samples that one of my employees put up on my personal website when we were working with Harley Davidson for the party that they had in my town (portland) for the "Ride Back Home". It is funny how people make assumptions for their own purposes without ANY information.
Yeah It's hard being "MR CREATIVE"....thank you what a fabulous title.
But OP if you go to my personal website and put /gallery after it you can see a really great artistic project I did. But my sign company that I was fortunate enough to sell last June for a AMAZING PROFIT....because as you assumed I haven't been in this business for long and couldn't make any money at it because I don't live in the real world...blah blah blah is www.brsign.com (mind you when I sold it we did not allow the new owner to keep all of my images of work that he didn't create but only a sampling that he or my employees that stuck around where active in producing during our transition period so that the new owners wouldn't be selling other peoples / my work) also there is actually a photo there of my working on a in my opinion pretty nice sign, which makes me wonder quite often that I really never see some of the stone throwers every really physically working on signs just the final photos makes me wonder if you one ever do any talented work and second maybe you have talented people make your "nice creative" signs...but that's another thread, it would be nice to see people actually working on projects...
-------------------- Dan Streicher Slidell, LA Posts: 445 | From: Slidell, LA | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Dan Streicher: ...you can see a really great artistic project I did. But my sign company that I was fortunate enough to sell last June for a AMAZING PROFIT....
Hey Mr. Creative I'm glad that you are greatly artistic & richly profitable, Don't know why you feel the need to tell us all that...but OK whatever, I guess uhm CONGRATULATIONS!
posted
Hey Doug I was waiting for you to do that bs you do with quoting everyone...you told me I was MR Creative and I was just responding to OP's statement of me not being able to make it in the "real world" where people steal to make it in this business, but thanks for your normal annoying antics, if nothing else I can say you are consistent....you get what you settle for.....
-------------------- Dan Streicher Slidell, LA Posts: 445 | From: Slidell, LA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Hahaha...gotta agree with Dan on his last post. The debate went from copying and selling copyrighted material to attacks on Dan's creativity. When you're losing the battle, change the subject is the operative phrase here.
"Mr Creative"? Youch, I don't know if I'd go there..... He might be talented enough to make us all feel like hacks.
But hey, I'm done yankin' OP's chain. When he's been reduced to a one sentance response...I know I've got him cornered. hehehehehehehe
Time to bail out on this one.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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I have no comments on the actual topic but I got a chuckle outta that last line!!!!!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
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