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A customerm just bvrought his truck in to be lettered. It has tiny specks of black(tar?) on both doors. We have tried mineral spirits, bug/tar remover, rapid remover, and rapid prep with no effect. When you scratch a speck with your fingernail, it is red like rust underneath.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Wayne try a little Laquer thinner mixed in with the mineral spirit, But try it first in an inconspicuous? Spot be very careful on how hard you rub, it may start to desolve the paint, if it's cheap paint.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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This post sort of bothered me because I just can't see a customer bringing his vehicle in to be lettered without you inspecting it from the get go, or did you just give him a price without inspection? If you inspected it as I've always done, you would have grabbed something from your arsonal and tried removing those specks immediately during your first view of the work, you could have tolkd him to bring it to you in a cleaner state. You may think I', going overboard on this subject, but I believe there are things the owner should do before having thier truck lettered.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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when i do vehicles....i tell em CLEAN IT BEFORE IT COMES HERE!! i charge $60 for washing!!!!! ive seen this one before. it was on my 65 plymouth which was brand new and i worked and parked it in a STEEL MILL parking lot. seemed the air polution there consisted of tiny hot metal specs...they hit the paint,sorta melted the paint, then water on that caused it to rust....but mine were on the hood, roof and trunk.
[ March 17, 2004, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Wayne, from your description of the "red rust" under the spots, I don't think what you have is tar. It sounds more like something coming up through the paint, or some kind of corrosive substance that has gotten on the truck (maybe salt or some kind of chemical). Might also be poor prep on a repaint.
Your best bet is probably to machine buff the doors, or better yet have your customer take the truck to a detail shop and see if they can buff the spots off. If they can't, you might want to pass on the job, or have a clear understanding with your customer that there's no guarantee.
-------------------- Jerry Mathel Retired Grants Pass, Oregon signs@grantspass.com Posts: 916 | From: Grants Pass, OR USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Depending on the age, it could be rust. Especially if he made use of magnetics before he called on you. Magnetics will cause what you describe. If the only spots are on the door, chances are pretty good.
OP, ya, whatever. $60 to wash?? What don't you just give the client your competitors phone number in the first place! (LOL)
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3489 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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I've been told that a lot of these type of specks are metallic dust from the wonderful non-asbestos brake bads we now have. Take a good look at white finishes that haven't been regularly washed. It seems to make sense.
-------------------- Bill Modzel Mod-Zel screen Printing Traverse city, MI modzel@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1357 | From: Traverse City, MI | Registered: Nov 1998
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I think Rick is on the right track if its just the doors, and sounds like magnetics were there before.
But the last comment? ...if you have to go over and above a simple surface prep, why wouldnt you bill your customer for your time? My rate is $60/hour, and it makes no difference if I am removing old decals or cleaning unexpected contaminates before application of the new decals, its all part of the install, and the clock is running! ....But maybe you cant get that in your area......
-------------------- Tim Rieck Signs Halfmoon Bay, BC Posts: 736 | From: Halfmoon Bay, BC, Canada | Registered: Sep 2000
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Well, the customer had brought the truck in Monday and it was spotless. He took a trip to Panama City on Tuesday and went through some road construction. He thinks he got it there. He asked for some mineral spirits, I went into the shop, brought him the jug and some paper towels. The only thing I will do to a door without extra charge is rapid prep it.
I told him that he should take it to the body shop down the street but he didn't want to do that. He said letter it, so I'll rapid prep and letter it. Thanks All.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Ive seen the metal specs many a time from Brake drums as well, they are nasty are'nt they, but they can come off if not baked in there. Just be sure to tell the customer about this concern. OP I get a charge out of you, though I always don't agree. I too ask the customer to bring in the vehicle clean, I tell him to drive through a carwash, and I'll take care of the rest, at no charge, I believe this is a Customer service that should be our respnsibility, to degrease and prep the vehicle to our standards for our Vinyl Graphics application. If they don't wash the vehicle I say "No Problem" I'll take care of it, that's one of the reasons why we do Hundreds and Hundreds of vehicles a year.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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Declan, The customer already tried petrol too.....unleaded. No effect. The stuff is so tenacious that you have to really scratch hard with a fingernail.
It can't be from magnetic signs, they're concentrated from the bottom corner where the cab mets the fender and disperese from there. Either it's the brake dust or something he picked up from the road. Thanks
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Hi Wayne, If it wasn't there on Monday, I don't see how it can be rust. Is the paint red?
By the way...If I have to wash a customer's vehicle, they pay $65. (1 hour min.) for me to do so. They come to me because of the quality of work I do, so I'm not worried in the least about them going to my competitor because it just doesn't happen. After a little grumbling, they pay it and wash they're vehicle next time. It's just common courtesy and respect for someone's time.
-------------------- Terry Baird Baird Signs 3484 West Lake Rd. Canandaigua, NY 14424 Posts: 790 | From: Canandaigua, New York | Registered: Dec 2002
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I have seen many cars/trucks/vans with this type of damage. The car mfgs call it 'rail dust'. Most often is from the cars being stored close to the rail depots where they are delivered. Trains kick up steel dust from the rails, it lands on new vehicles and the sun bakes it into the paint. They advise not buffing it- as if the buffer pad picks up a particle it will cut into the paint. My daughters new Grand Prix had it- just out of warrantee of course- we used detailing clay bars to remove most of it and then keep it waxed. Gene
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Gene, I too use those Clay bars, they do a great job. When persons finally learn all about their trade, they to will charge 60-65 bucks for a vehicle wash.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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Clay bars can be bought at any auto body supply, they look like a bar of soap. You keep the vehicle wet and a pail of soapy water beside you and with the clay bar, you wipe the body panels to remove any contaminents first by putting the clay into the soapy water then rubbing the surface. They work great and give the vehicle a clean surface. I use them on my Valiant before I wax and on some vehicles before I paint.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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CLAY BARS are an abrasive....but...it is so fine if you think of it in terms of sandpaper it would be somewhere in the 4000-8000 grit!!! if you mess with pottery and glazes, its about the same as the kaolin clay that we make glazes with.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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we had a sign in our shop that said we are highly experienced professional signmakers who are paid accordingly, our shop rate is $67.50 if you would like to pay us to clean your vehicle prior to working on it beaware that you are paying the same professionals that will be lettering your vehicle to wash it at our normal shop rate. Furthermore,as we are often stuck inside working we would welcome the opportunity to work outside at a leisurely pace enjoying the sunshine while washing your truck...Just let us know that you are in need of this additional service.
WE NEVER HAD A DIRTY VEHICLE DELIVERED TO OUR SHOP FOR LETTERING
-------------------- Dan Streicher Slidell, LA Posts: 445 | From: Slidell, LA | Registered: Feb 2004
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I worked at a car dealership in my youth, We had it on lots of white Suzuki Samurais (remember those?) Suzuki rep said it was from acid rain when the cars were stored outdoors on the west coast. They were trucked in to MN, not shipped by train. Anyway, ZEP chemicals had a product that got rid of it.
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