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I have to replace the panels in a backlit sign- 96" x 67" tall. It's along a busy highway, very high in the air, and subject to extremely strong winds. I'm going to use 1/8" but do any of you know if installing a strong piece of wire (centered vertically) inside the cabinet (against the backside of each panel) will keep the winds from pushing the panels in? The existing panels are pan faced which give support but can't be used again and the customer doesn't want the added expense because of the odd size. Help, please!
-------------------- Linda Schmidt Vital D'Signs Greers Ferry, AR signlady@ozarkisp.net Posts: 160 | From: Greers Ferry, AR | Registered: Sep 2001
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Linda, You must pass on this job if the client doesn't have the money to do it right. It's an accident waiting to happen and you'll be held liable!!!
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Yes, pass on this job. We do this kind of work for a living, and it requires knowledge and experience.
-------------------- Dennis Veenema The Sign Shop Dresden, Ont. but what do I know anyway...I've only been doing this for 20 years! Posts: 368 | From: Dresden, Ont.,CAN | Registered: May 1999
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First of all, As others have said, If your not used to these Do Not Do It.....One thing also or maybe two....face that size needs min.3/16" plex Wire will not do anything to help, Halfway in you will need clear 1/4" x3" plastic glued to the inside to help keep the face from blowing out. I know you want 1/8" to fit the retainers,put that is too thin to hold up with out the "formed" part.
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Well, heck fire, people- you're not telling me why. I'm not doing the installation (I don't do heights!). What if I have him sign a waiver releasing me of any responsibility. I've done lots of these but never one that will go at this height- above the tree line (that's high-up for this area).
Jim- Just read your post. Customer's not worried about blow-out, just blow-in. Thanks for 3/16" advice. In reality, he may decide it's going to cost too much and leave the old in-place. In any case, I still have to come through with a price.
[ March 04, 2004, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: Linda Schmidt ]
-------------------- Linda Schmidt Vital D'Signs Greers Ferry, AR signlady@ozarkisp.net Posts: 160 | From: Greers Ferry, AR | Registered: Sep 2001
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The "PAN" face,is NOT for strength! It is (needed) to disperse the light properly.
BEWARE:Using a flat sheet, will result in the ability of the flourescent bulbs to be seen as illuminated "LINES" behind the copy. Which may effect the readability of advertisment!
Saving money ALWAYS comes with a COST!
hope this helps
-------------------- PKing is Pat King The Professor of SIGNOLOGY Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Any panel over 24" high and I use 3/16". If you show your customer a sheet that is 5.5'x8' and 1/8" thick they will be able to see how flimsy it is.
[ March 05, 2004, 12:31 AM: Message edited by: Brian Snyder ]
-------------------- Brian Snyder Sign Effectz Woodbridge, New Jersey Posts: 723 | From: Woodbridge, NJ USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hi again Linda, I apologize for not completely explaining my reply. After all, we all are here to learn and to share our experiences. The reason for my wanting you to pass on the job is for all the reasons you originally mentioned. First, 1/8" thick material of anything that size will not stand up to a strong wind. It will pop out and probably smash down on a school bus full of children. I would use the same exact materials as what was removed or a minimum 3/16" thick polycarbonate. If I could go with thicker material, I wouldn't hesitate. Second, if a sign cabinet and face will become stronger by wiring it up with a cable and using thin materials, don't you think we would be using it on a regular basis? Third, I have to disagree with Mr. King. I have a lot of respect for him, but, I beleive that a pan face also gains strength from it's shape. It's not just to eliminate the banding caused by the tubes being too close to the face. I would suggest that you talk to your installer and see what he would recommend on this job. If he approves of your plan, I would have him sign off on the ame disclaimer that you have the client sign. Oh, just because you have a signed waiver, it doesn't mean that you're immune to a lawsuit. If something goes wrong, the lawyers will still coming after you and everyone else involved with the project.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Make sure you have hanger bars (approx. 1/2" strips) clued on the tops and bottom of the new faces. You have to look at old faces or sign cabinet to see if the hanger bars need to go in front or back. If the cabinet has good retainer system you MAYBYE OK with a min. 3/16" face. NEVER USE 1/8" FLAT faces for outdoor ill. signs.
Make sure you have hanger bars (approx. 1/2" strips) clued on the tops and bottom of the new faces. You have to look at old faces or sign cabinet to see if the hanger bars need to go in front or back. If the cabinet has good retainer system you MAYBE OK with a min. 3/16" face. NEVER USE 1/8" FLAT faces for outdoor ill. signs.
Your other option is to ADD bumpers. They mount on the inside of the sign (centered). The face can be screwed into the bumpers.
If the existing sign has pan faces you will probably get hotspots(uneven lighting). Be sure your customer understands that there will probably be some lighting issues. It may make your work look bad. So you should consider that as a reason to pass on the job. Push the customer to doing the job correctly.
You can check for proper lighting with the following formula. Measure the distance from the lamp to the new flat face. Measure the lamp distance from center-center. That distance should not exceed 2x the distance from your lamp to face distance. For polycarbonate faces you should be less than 2x the distance. Poly is more translucent that acyrlic and requires a closer lamp spacing.
If you chose to do the work DO IT CORRECTLY. How much less is the 1/8" vs. 3/16"?. IF the customer is that cheap PASS on it. Otherwise cut your profit and do it correctly.
Your installer better have some experience. An experienced intaller should understand bumpers, hanger bars, retainers, etc. Otherwise you are setting your self up for a bad situation.
-------------------- Mike South ABC Glass & Signs, Inc. 1415 Main Street Miles City, MT 59301
abc@midrivers.com 406-234-1234 Posts: 167 | From: Miles City, MT | Registered: Mar 2004
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