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Hi has anyone had much experience with the exterior MDF board? We have a few jobs where it would work well but I am not sure of its lasting power. thanks
-------------------- Tony and Bridget Albano Naamans Creek Carved Sign Co. Avondale, PA wecarve353@msn.com Posts: 10 | From: Avondale, PA | Registered: Apr 2002
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This has been discussed here a lot. Do a search for Extira and you'll see what folks think. Basically, so far, so good. But the jury is still out.
Mark
-------------------- Mark Rogan The Great Barrington Sign Company 2 Stilwell Street, Great Barrington, MA 01230 mark@gbsignco.com
"Sometimes I think my head is so big because it is so full of fonts" Posts: 332 | From: Great Barrington, MA | Registered: Mar 2003
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Here in Florida I went to the local distributor the Exitra folks recommended and they would not sell it to us. That distributor then called our sign supply house and tried to sell it to them. So we would have to pay double. Plus the sign supplier doesn't want to stock it.
I asked the Extira folks why they don't sell directly to the sign supply houses and they said they have to buy a certain amount and refuse.
Guess we won't be using it. I'm not paying $60/sheet when I should be able to get it for at least half that.
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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I guess I was lucky. The great People at Boise Cascade are sending me down a full sheet to demo out. Unfourtunatly They cant sell to me unless I buy a unit at a time. My Lumber yard will be ordering it in for me from now on at 50 a sheet for 3/4 a little higher then straght MDF but if it holds up to its claim its well worth it. since I dont have to pay for shipping
posted
I love the stuff. If your CNC milling and use quality paints your in for a treat.
Bill
-------------------- Bill Jarvis Rookie432@AOL.com
"A customer is someone who deals with you. A GOOD customer is someone who refuses to deal with anyone else." Posts: 81 | From: Cambridge, Ohio, USA | Registered: Oct 2000
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hey...any relation to LOU ALBANO????????HEHEHEHEHE
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Get it out of that bucket of water. It won't prove anything. Your signs won't be underwater, why test it underwater?
I remember the Medex fiasco; Medex passed all sorts of soaking tests. What happened was that the resin in Medex was impervious to LIQUID water molecules (because of surface tension) but vulnerable to absorbing water VAPOR. Water vapor acts very differently, on a molecular level, than liquid water. Medex failed because it absorbed water vapor, so all the tests done by "soaking in a bucket" were pointless, misleading, and ultimately disastrous.
Test extira under real-life conditions; in other words, paint it up and put it outside and keep an eye on it. If it hasn't done anything bad in six months to a year, it's probably going to be OK. So you don't want to wait that long? Why the hell not? After all, given the financial damage done by the medex fiasco, shouldn't we as an industry be very cautious about manufacturers claims and "tests" that don't imitate real-world conditions? Your reputation as a professional depends upon your ability to choose appropriate materials; a year is not too long to invest compared to the headache of having thousands of dollars lost because a material was not tested appropriately. Get it out of the bucket and test it in real world conditions, or don't use it.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Guess it was worth repeating... I was one that got stung hard by Medex many years ago so his admonition rings true. Funny though, when this debate has surfaced in the past there were many who claimed to have fine results with Medex, but I will never be caught with my pants so far down again. I'm going to let the whole industry try it out for at least FIVE years before I even want to look at the stuff.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Put me down with Cam and Joe, I will never ,ever have a scrap of any type of medex in my shop. I too took it in the shorts big time. Why would you try something that is new and improved when the original cost you a lot of money and customer goodwill?
-------------------- Bob & Marcia Peach Peach Signs Inc Sandwich, MA rpeach9828@aol.com Posts: 1020 | From: Sandwich, MA | Registered: Jan 2002
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Sort of along the same lines, I hear people cry about MDO failure all the time around here. Many say MDO is crap. NOT if you prep it right. I have told everyone many times how I prep for our harsh New England weather and some still don't take my word for it. I'm not saying Medex wasn't crap but Extira may be worth some good prepping and a true New England weatehr teast. I know I like how it cuts, routes, and carves. I'll be the guinea pig if I have to. I need a new sign in front of my shop. I will do it out of Extira and keep a close eye on it. I will then report back to you all.
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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I too am doing my testing down here in Florida. Doesnt get much worse than down here. I carved a letter in a piece and left it inside the toilet tank for a week. Took it out to dry for a few days then put it back in the toilet.
Going to paint it this week and stick it to the roof of my truck for a few month of torturous heat and rain. I'll paint one half white, the other black and see what happens.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
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We've used it a few times. One for an exterior sign that has been through this winter and so far so good. We just used it for some interior dimensional letters and my guys in the shop seem to like it.
Obviously, finishing techniques are quite important. Jay Cooke taught us about proper finishing techniques and he was a strong proponent of Medex. He made a couple of Medex signs for us about 8 years ago that still look as good as the day we installed them.
So far we like Extera. I will report any problems on that exterior sign we put up about 6 months ago.
-------------------- Richard Swartz DeNyse Signs 4521 Industrial Access Road Douglasville, GA 30134 Posts: 101 | From: Douglasville, GA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I, not only had to eat a few medex boards, but got my supplier in very deep, asking him to get it for me and supply it. He painted medex and shipped it all over the place. I think he still blames me for that. Bill
-------------------- Bill & Barbara Biggs Art's Sign Service, Inc. Clute, Texas, USA Home of The Great Texas Mosquito Festival Proud 10 year Supporter of the Letterheads Website www.artssigns.com "MrBill-" on the chat page MailTo:biggsbb@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1020 | From: Lake Jackson,Tx | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I pretty much stayed away from medex, and that's just what I intend to do with this new stuff.
Why would I want to beat the hell out of my hands, when there's already a lighter, easier carving substrate available. And with a proven track record, at that ?
There's no point in jumping over a dollar to pick up a nickel.
I'll stick with the SignFoam.
-------------------- Steve Purcell Purcell Woodcarving & Signmaking Cape Cod, MA
************************** Intelligent Design Is No Accident Posts: 900 | From: Cape Cod, MA | Registered: Oct 1999
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How 'bout some of our brothers and sisters over in Europe who have been using MDF for quite a while? Maybe we could hear from them about how they prep their stuff. Anyone?
-------------------- Mike"Spud"Kelly zipperhead design Westminster, MA Posts: 367 | From: Westminster, MA | Registered: Mar 2001
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This reminds me a bit of when Baltek (balsa wood) panels came on the market a few years ago, then disappeared. All the instruction with it talked about "proper sealing" against water intrusion, beacuse if you let balsa get wet it rots - FAST. The fact is that almost ANY coating system is going to let water get in, eventually; if you cut corners on a project because you're rushed, or forget, or an employee didn't follow instruction completely, you've produced a sign that will fail prematurely. Even MDO, completly uncoated, won't delaminate for at least two years (that's a result from my own testing.) To make a coating system entirely responsible for the longevity of a product that you know will fail without coating, is asking for trouble.
I agree with Steve Purcell. Why jump on a wagon that has a history of losing its wheels?
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hi folks here in the UK there are 7 distinct "grades" of MDF available. ordinary MDF for furniture,Lite MDF, Formaldehyde Free for use in schools etc, Fire Retardent, Flooring Quality, Moisture Resistant for use in kitchens & Bathrooms and finally Exterior Grade that is used for shop fascia manufacture, exterior wood mouldings, garden furniture etc ohh! and Signs I've been using it for signs for the past 3 years and a mate, Paul Rafferty has been using it for 10 years without ONE FAILURE and Cam you've seen Pauls stuff at Ashley's meet in 2002, as you know most of the weather we get in the UK is termed as "Temperate" i.e. Crap weather with more than our fair share of rain, the way to work with exterior mdf if to prepare it properly, start with no sharp edges as this can cause the paint to "creep" back from edges so we ease them all over with a small radius (6mm) router bit then paint, all the paint we use is oil based exterior quality, first prime it then an undercoat then 2 gloss coats, front and back, this is the same method ALL quality Decorators treat any exterior painted woodwork in this country. We would love to use Signfoam here but the current prices compared to exterior mdf is around 6:1 i.e. an 8x4 of mdf is around £25 where as similar Signfoam would be £150 or more. PS to Cam I'm now the proud owner of a 94 Triumph Trident 750, us Hinckley boys should stick together
-------------------- Steve Broughton Alpha Grafix Signs Lowfields Road Benington, Boston Lincolnshire, England Posts: 315 | From: Boston, Lincolnshire, England | Registered: Aug 2001
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I guess I should clarify my bucket thing. I also have a painted sample outside and I was bored so I dropped the other piece in a bucket. excuse me for being curious. Just wanted to see what would happen. I would never use that as a guage for my materials.
-------------------- TJ Duvall Diamond State Graphics, Inc.
New Castle, DE 19720 Posts: 396 | From: New Castle,Delaware | Registered: Jul 2002
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I have long suspected that the MDF offered in the UK is of a different grade or manufacturer than here in the US, which explains its popularity in Britain and the bad reputation it has here. I've never quite understood if this is because the distributers aren't looking at the sign trade as a viable market, or what, but the bad experiences we've had here followed the assurances of manufactures and distributors that the Medex they were selling was absolutely weatherproof. It could well be that distributors sold an interior-grade product as exterior grade, whether out of ignorance or dishonesty - it hardly matters. The results were horrid and expensive. I myself have never seen MDF offered in different grades previous to the introduction of Extira. It may be fine - maybe it's what the lads in Britain have had all along - but there is going to be a lot of market resistance here because of what went before. Once bitten, twice shy!
And Stephen, enjoy your Hinckley! Actually, Triumph is an example of a company which overcame a less-than-stellar market reputation by building a top quality product and standing by it.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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