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I have had vinyl failure on two Ford Trucks recently. One was lettered with High Performance in 2002. Lettering is now bubbling. Other truck was lettered a year ago with Intermediate. The vinyl is now lifting. Neither was a repaint. I do approximately 50-60 trucks a year. Any ideas?
-------------------- Jerry Starpoli Starpoli Signs... since 1952
845-795-2438 Posts: 446 | From: Milton, NY US | Registered: Jun 2000
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dotn know about bubbling but the lifting of intermediate is common. It fails fast. And it wil llift or curl early if you stretched it while applying it. Thats all i can say from the info you gave.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5273 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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probably has nothing to do with it being a ford...i would look more to the colors of the truck, colors of the vinyl. the use salt in the winter in new york, add to that cold and then days of bright sun. the vinyl is being subjected to a lot temp variations. do these trucks belong to a chemical type company? are they subjected to pressure washings with harsh chemicals....lot of variables......old vinyl? bad batch of vinyl? teflon waxed trucks? and the list goes on......
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Roger, I cleaned the vehicles the same as always. I am talking of two specific failures on Ford Trucks. Somehow, I don't do many Fords. I realize you are trying to promote the sale of your prep product which I have used on occasion. Some of your proucts are excellent. I love the Rapid Tack II for glass applications, but your products are not all things for every application. I could go on and on about this, but that will not answer the question that I asked about Ford Trucks. Thanks for all your input.
-------------------- Jerry Starpoli Starpoli Signs... since 1952
845-795-2438 Posts: 446 | From: Milton, NY US | Registered: Jun 2000
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I too do many Ford trucks. I think Roger's question is a good one. The same thing happened to me with a new Chevrolet police car, and the BB turned it into a lack of prep issue. I won't say my prep is always perfect, But, in my case it was a product failure.....my one and only product failure ever. The manufacturer admitted that, and more that made up for it.
This is not a Ford/Chevy issue either. You may need to research what brand of vinyl you used. And, for your own peace of mind, research your prep product. Then hit it twice when cleaning.
Whatever you do, take care of the client TODAY! NQA! (no questions asked) They will remember it, and tell their fellow contractors all about your great service.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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If they are new Ford pickups, check to see if they came from the same dealership. I had a local Ford dealership that was putting some nasty something another on their vehicles to make them "Shine" more for the customer. It was that teflon stuff or some petroleum stuff that was popular a while back. My prep cleaners where not cutting through the stuff and nothing would stick. Even a body shop had to strip a fender down to bare metal once because the owner got a hold of some of the petroleum based stuff and it was causing problems with the automotive paint they were reparing the truck with.
Back in the 80s some local car detailing places were selling this Apple Polishing System stuff. Fine if you were not going to paint or vinyl the vehicle later.
Just an idea.
Pam
-------------------- Pam Eddy Niles, MI ple@qtm.net Posts: 460 | From: Michigan | Registered: Dec 2000
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Thanks Pam. They both did come from the same dealer. Rick, I always stand by whatever I do.I do know what vinyl I used and was surprised that this only happened to these Fords. I just called the dealer and they use a quick wax. No Teflons or anything like that. I am baffled.
-------------------- Jerry Starpoli Starpoli Signs... since 1952
845-795-2438 Posts: 446 | From: Milton, NY US | Registered: Jun 2000
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Roger, Thanks for the threat. I wash the truck with heavy soap and then clean thrice with the same Wax and Tar remover that every auto body shop uses before the do anything. Then clean twice with alcohol. I did over 120 trucks in the past two years, and these are the only two that came back. What am I doing wrong?
-------------------- Jerry Starpoli Starpoli Signs... since 1952
845-795-2438 Posts: 446 | From: Milton, NY US | Registered: Jun 2000
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Jerry... Pam's post was especially intuitive. I was thinking "were they the same color?" but I think she is onto something. Good Luck. Love...JILL
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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One is Deep Red, the other Midnite Blue. Must be that I didn't use Rapid Prep on these two and all the others that I didn't have a problem with. The dealer swears that they do not use anything other than Wizard Quick Wax. I have been doing the sign thing since I was 11 years old and now am 63. Things do happen. Most of us try to learn from our failures. I guess this will have to be one of those unsolved mysteries. Thanks to all that tried to help.
-------------------- Jerry Starpoli Starpoli Signs... since 1952
845-795-2438 Posts: 446 | From: Milton, NY US | Registered: Jun 2000
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The wizard quick wax is the problem. You may have cleaned well, but there would still be wax left behind. Any type of wax surface will build a barrier between the vehicle and the adhesive. Once the wax brakes down, the adhesive will let go and be left to bubble. I would suggest getting a sample of that wax and doing some in shop tests before you re-letter any vehicles from that location.
-------------------- Ottawa Custom Signs Stittsville, Ontario Posts: 346 | From: Stittsville, ON | Registered: Dec 1998
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As a auto painter I was constantly searching for a better way, the silicone issue was a regular problem and would rear its head in the middle of a custom paint job.
We would wash with all the care (prep solvents),sometimes two cleanings, and tack off, only to have "fish eye" blow up somewhere, these solvents we cleaned with are 40 or 50 year old formulas,they are oil derivitive formulas, and don't always get the entire amount of silicone out of the old finish,alcohol won't bring up the silicone any better.
Just my 2 cents, without advertising !
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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Roger, I for one appreciate your comments and help. Your products make our work much easier.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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Ditto to JD's comments Roger. But I see Jerry's frustration too. No doubt the client is frustrated and Jerry feels it. Much like I felt with the patrol car issue a few months ago.
Your produsts are superior, and your input is good. It's just the timing I guess, we don't like warranty work...who does.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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I know to some I am a "snake oil salesman" I'v dealt with that for 6 years on the boards, And I guess to some my excitement and beleifs in my products are annoying, but its a wonderfull thing to be able to help a person who voices they're need for assistance.
Yes I have a need to sell my products, no less then the same need you all experiance, but I feel that when you guys are happy and knowledgeable, (especially if I can help get you there)then there will be a level of trust and product loyality.
I mean no harm, I make no threats, I only want you guys to be as productive and happy as possible and to have my products and advise be a big part of the reason !!
You can bank on the fact that I won't give poor advise, period.
Roger (thanks for listening)
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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I have never had any problems whatsoever using rapidprep..its a great product and just for the record.....ALL New Yorkers are NOT nasty.....just a few of em!!
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I've been using GON after washing a vehicle. I use GON twice before lettering and have not had a reported problem. Good Luck Maris
-------------------- SIGN STATION Andover, Minnesota, USA Comunicação Visual "We will sell no sign before its time." www.signstation.com maris@signstation.com Posts: 17 | From: Andover, MN USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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roger..you seen the movie "GUMPIE OLD MEN"? thats jerry. and hes 63 and been doin this since he was 11......and hes set in his ways...to old to change. like i said earlier, coulda been a bad batch of vinyl..or old vinyl by the time you recieved it...it does happen. this QUICK WAX thy put on...id really look to see that it doesnt contain TEFLON or some dirivitve of it.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I never used any RT stuff until you sent me samples. And, I've never had a failure while using RT stuff. It works plain and simple. The Rapid Prep is a magic cleaner. It has saved more than a few jobs when some strange secrete formula the customer used kept my vinyl from sticking. Who knows what they are using on their vehicles and windows?
Rapid Remover is my secrete juice. I sell it for $10.00 in 2 oz. bottles I get from Walmart. I dream of the day when I can buy sample size bottles from ya.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5273 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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Sorry that I asked a question here and even knew how to spell. There were a few replies that actually had something to do with my question. Thanks to those that did try. Sorry to have wanted real information. Maybe I need a picture posted?
-------------------- Jerry Starpoli Starpoli Signs... since 1952
845-795-2438 Posts: 446 | From: Milton, NY US | Registered: Jun 2000
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""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Starpoli next time why don't you post the answer you want people to give and save every one some time? There's obviously an answer you want to hear and the fact that you may have done something to cause the problem yourself sure isn't one of em...what you want is an excuse to blame the product at the expense of everything else..... and you're not getting it so you choose to cop an attitude with those that offered assistance and dismiss them right away b/c you're sure what they told you is wrong.....if thats the case you must know the cause so why ask the question in the first place? Next time maybe use the search feature and save yourself the indignation of having to deal with those you deem not worthy of answering you...or better yet post that picture so that everyone can stop their day and concentrate on why you feel that cleaning a vehicle with wax and grease remover,smearing that mess around with alcohol and then using intermediate vinyl on a vehicle is a good idea in the first place and certain to remain a trouble free procedure for years into the future.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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Next time be willing to take what you dish out
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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Come on you guys. Leave your guns and egos at home before visiting Letterville. I know you are not always going to love one another, but let's try to exercize a bit more tolerance for ideas and suggestions offered. Concentrate on fixing problems rather than fixing the blame.
-------------------- Barb Shortreed 144 Hill St. E. Fergus, Ontario Posts: 2374 | From: Fergus, Ont. | Registered: Sep 2000
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