posted
I realize this post could fall under some other current threads here, but I couldn’t decide which one, so I started a new one.
As I have said a couple of times here recently, I went from mostly painting for yrs to mostly vinyl in the past 5-6 yrs. Not unlike a few others here have said. Part of the reason is as follows:
The photo below is one of the last hand lettered/airbrushed jobs I have done. Dated 1-20-96 (you need to look past the pre-digital camera, scanned photo please) I did this job the same as I had several times before, same paint, thinners, process, etc. Air brushed wet on wet. Shortly after lettering this truck I noticed some other, fairly recent, similar jobs failing. Oddly enough we had talked about havin’ this one cleared at a body shop but chose not to since I hadn’t needed to in the past. As it turned out with this job being less than two yrs old and lookin’ pathetic (faded) I striped it off and ended up vinylin’ it. (not happily)
Somewhere along this time, after complaining enough, I finally got one of the chemist at the (I will not name the brand) lettering paint company to admit to formula changes due to govt. regulations and it would get worse before better. (We all know now the lead’s gone.)
As the story goes...ended up gettin’ my own vinyl cuttin’ system and here we are.
As I have stated on recent posts, like a few others I have had a recent desire to get back to paintin’, at least a little. (not quite as descriptive as others about my desire lol)
Now, believe it or not the question...how do you deal with the paint now?
I recently bought the hardener the manufacturer makes. Not to crazy about the highly recommended use of gloves and respirator and have been told upon using the hardener, oven cleaner won’t touch it. With my main thing being vehicle lettering and most customers becoming accustom to the vinyl comin’ off with little or no signs of having been there, what are ya doin’ now?
Sort of on the subject of paint -vs- vinyl. I take a fair amount of pride in the fact that when I want to I can make a vinyl job look enough like paint to fool most any customer that’s not close enough to touch it, with the obvious exception of the airbrush look. Which leads me to my next thought...if and when I am able to get to in-house digital printing, would that fulfill my need to get back to the airbrush lookin’ stuff I’m longin’ for?
Thanks for your thoughts, comments, or advice in advance.
Jeff
-------------------- Jeff's Lettering Lisa,Luke,Dara, and Jeff Spradling 5742 Shattuck Rd. Belvidere, Il. 61008 815-544-0167
Surviving another day. Posts: 626 | From: Belvidere, IL USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
Jeff I know the feeling, former handletterer, now 80% vinyl.
Actually, there is a way to have your vinyl & airbrush too. Enamel receptive vinyl. You could even handcut your killer scripts & casuals or whatever for a handlettered look. Airbrush away, stand out from the crowd AND it is still removeable.
Cheers
-------------------- Rob Thomas 3410 Ketcham Ct Beautiful Springs FL 34134 Posts: 965 | From: Bonita Springs, Florida USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
geez, there hasn't been lead in automotive paint in at least three decades and that paint hasn't got a fast fading problem. On the other end with sign enamels, could there be a thinning problem or a problem with keeping up with new technologies and additives? I do a fair amount of large cartoons on vehicles using both hand painting and airbrush without a fading problem, why is that?
I just came back from visiting Jeff Crank in Redding who BTW is having a vehicle arts meet on May 22-23 which will discussing a lot of this stuff in both styles, tools and materials we work with. You can contact Jeff email Dsignartist@aol.com if you're interested.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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iam of the belife that most problem with one shot is the REDUCTION. i have a freind that i paint with on big jobs, and i have to stay on him...NOT TO THIN so much that the paint is like water!!! turps is a VEHICLE.. the word means what it is. a touch of turps/mineral spirits is all you need to make the paint flow and lay. to many people tend to thin it way to much. this is like painting with water colors!!!!!!!!! and dont last at all. the old guys use a cup with paint another cup with reducer....and if you watch em.....they pick up very little reducer to add to the paint at any time. reason being as soon as paint is exposed to air..it starts to dry.....a "touch" of reducer makes it flow again ....to much reducer and you got colored mineral spirits!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Jeff I don't believe I like the Hardener you're talking about either .. or aren't talking about..lol
I used a brand that was supposed to be the Bomb.... Well it Bombed all right... THe Stuff works for Panel Jams, But for something that has to last ... NO THANKS..... 3 jobs in a row for me went south.... Never again... The Thinner tip form Old Paint... too much does suck... Tough call... Adds more weight against my Gripe too.. No failures from Vinyl, Well most of it... Like the Hand Painting you did, or do ,or want to get back to doing... Keep it going....
-------------------- Mike Contreras MAX Sign & Design Gladstone , Michigan Posts: 84 | From: Gladstone , Michigan | Registered: Jun 2000
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Jeff I don't believe I like the Hardener you're talking about either .. or aren't talking about..lol
I used a brand that was supposed to be the Bomb.... Well it Bombed all right... THe Stuff works for Panel Jams, But for something that has to last ... NO THANKS..... 3 jobs in a row for me went south.... Never again... The Thinner tip form Old Paint... too much does suck... Tough call... Adds more weight against my Gripe too.. No failures from Vinyl, Well most of it... Like the Hand Painting you did, or do ,or want to get back to doing... Keep it going....
-------------------- Mike Contreras MAX Sign & Design Gladstone , Michigan Posts: 84 | From: Gladstone , Michigan | Registered: Jun 2000
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Old Paint & Joey are right on! I was taught by an "old timer", Al Bradt, on how to thin paint........the closer you could lay it down from the can, the better! I have a pallett with a "small" cup attached, and from time to time I touch the thinner with the "tip" of the brush and work it into the paint on the pallett. This is to get a consistant "feel". Do Not thin paint! I have seen lettering Al's father did in 1896 and it sill is here!!! Well not quite here, the building it was on recently burned down. I did get a picture of it before the fire.
-------------------- Tony Vickio The World Famous Vickio Signs 3364 Rt.329 Watkins Glen, NY 14891 t30v@vickiosigns.com 607-535-6241 http://www.vickiosigns.com Posts: 1063 | From: Watkins Glen, New York | Registered: Sep 2001
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I do only all paint and airbrush work on vehicles, and I too believe it is the reducing that is important. I've not had a problem with the paint failing, but have seen work from another ex-painter in the area that has had miserable results from over thinning. As far as the hardener goes, I use it on all my graphic designs, but not so much on the just "lettering" jobs that they may eventually want to take off (some of the semi guys change companys frequently, and come back to me to remove the name and DOT #'s to put new ones on) I find that if the customer takes care of their vehicle too it makes a huge difference.
-------------------- Kristie Byrnes Paintbrush Graphics 6126 Big Cut Rd. Mt. Carroll, IL 61053 rugbyrnes@hotmail.com (563) 357-7614 Posts: 90 | From: Thomson,IL | Registered: Dec 2002
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On the subject of thinning and "over-thinning". I was just at a meet, and saw yet another person who poured 1Shot into a cup, and added reducer to it.
I was taught (perhaps incorrectly), to lay some paint on a pallet, and just dip your brush into your reducer and pallet it into the paint. When the viscosity is right, and the brush is palleted properly, you paint. You continually add paint to the pallet, and adjust the consistancy of the paint one brushful of reducer at a time.
I see lots of people "pre-reducing" and lettering right out of a cup. I still do it the other way, whether I'm lettering or striping.
The reason this came to mind..is that in the case of this recent observation at a meet, the paint was without a doubt too lose. I would think this would certainly have an adverse effect on the durability of the job.
Posts: 465 | From: / | Registered: Jan 2000
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I've been in on all these posts about paint. Some important observations have been made about over thinning paint. I have always pre-reduced my paints sparingly in cups rather than palleting, mostly because of my semi work. I found it easier to crawl around on a big rig with a paper cup as opposed to a pallet pad. I switched away from traditional lettering enamels sort of by accident, because I was looking for an alternative to metallic gold. I had a customer insist on it for his trucks and it was difficult to stripe with and wound up failing before the other colors. So on a tip from a body shop I tried HOK lettering and striping enamels. I started with their metallic gold and roman red colors. I was impressed with how they striped and held up. Now I use that line of paint exclusively for all vehicle and semi striping and lettering.
I'm like you though, I do vinyl, and discovered that the HOK works on vinyl too. It paints like 1 Shot but sticks to vinyl and will not come off. Here is a picture of a semi that has airbrushed HOK and hand lettered HOK on top of vinyl and all the other striping is HOK. If you do a lot of vehicles, I won't have to tell you that semis, by far, get more abuse than other vehicles. They're washed with the most extreme chemicals and it's not uncommon for a driver to put 4,000 miles a week on these babies. So if you can get your paint to hold up on them you're doing pretty well. Before HOK I was putting urethane hardener in my 1 Shot with good results, but it didn't want to stay on the vinyl unless I used enamel receptive vinyl.
This semi hit a deer and was in for repairs a few months ago. The driver said it was about 4 years old, and it looked like the day I did it. If the piture doesn't show, the lettering is vinyl with an airbrush fade on the letters. The skull and feathers are hand painted on black hp vinyl with HOK. All the other striping is with HOK. When this guy sells the rig, the vinyl will come off, but the striping stays. The next guy can buy it with the striping as is and add his name. At that time the striping can be gone over and the color of the striping can even be changed. Hope this helps ya.
[ February 24, 2004, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: Bill Diaz ]
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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