posted January 27, 2004 06:23 PM
Hi Everyone, I'm having difficulty getting HP vinyl (even 3M) to stick on plastic dock steps. I've cleaned with Rapid Prep, even did some light sanding. The letters just won't stick. Any suggestions?
-------------------- Dawn Ellis Signs by Dawn Long Beach, CA signsbydawn@aol.com
Trust yourself. Listen to the voice within. It is always right. Posts: 456 | From: Long Beach, California | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted January 27, 2004 06:28 PM
I wonder if the plastic is similar to the stuff stickerpimp has to deal with on those jetskis. Some wierd name like low energy plastics or something. Ask Mike Pipes , or check with Graphic marking Systems
posted January 27, 2004 07:22 PM
Luckily I dont have to deal with many low surface energy plastics on jetskis, but I've been considering switching to the Convex films at GMS cause if I started sending my customers 24mil laminated printed graphics they'd just flip their lids!
Anyway, the high bond films are what you'd need.. that, or cut a stencil mask and use vinyl ink to make the letters instead.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted January 28, 2004 01:26 PM
Thanks Doug and Mike, I ordered a roll of Convex film from GMS this morning. Mike, do you know if you can paint (Krylon?) on this Convex film?
-------------------- Dawn Ellis Signs by Dawn Long Beach, CA signsbydawn@aol.com
Trust yourself. Listen to the voice within. It is always right. Posts: 456 | From: Long Beach, California | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted January 28, 2004 02:02 PM
Dawn I haven't tried the Convex film yet but you can get paint to stick to almost anything with a little work.
I prefer spraying screenprinting ink because I know it has enough hot solvent in it to agressively bite into vinyls/PVC's and stick for a good long time. Did you ask if the Convex comes in colors other than White, black and clear? I've been meaning to call them to ask, it seems I'll either have to outsource printing or get happy with screen inks to turn out multi-color jobs if it only comes in colors for printing.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Lot's of plastic parts these days are made out of Polypropylenes....many which are not condusive to vinyl adhering to them.
They "outgas" which basically means that they constantly emitt gaseous bubbles which have to go somewhere. They collect underneath the vinyl and appear as air bubbles....their intensity and numbers growing to a point where they eventually make the decal fall off.
3M makes an adhesive activator that may help. You wipe it on the offending surface prior to adhering the decal...but beware, this stuff is nasty and can cause surface discoloration, etc. Test it first.
Big time converters use a special adhesive for these applications, but it's very expensive.
Poly's are usually an excercise in futility.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted January 28, 2004 07:45 PM
You did get the "high bond" stuff right?
quote: High Bond Convex™ We developed this material with a special adhesive that has a very high tack, non-slip, and excellent adhesion to low energy plastics such as motor bike fenders and number plates. High Bond also adheres well to powder-paint coated surfaces found on many machinery surfaces. We coated 2 mils of adhesive as opposed to 1 mil for better bonding on rough textured surfaces.
High Bond vs. regular Convex™ When we first developed Convex™ for football helmets, our customers wanted the decals to remove clean with as little residual adhesive left on the helmet as possible. This cuts down on the labor involved in refurbishing helmets for new decals. Regular Convex™ will remove clean from most smooth or painted surfaces without leaving adhesive behind. The motocross industry on the other hand needs a stronger adhesive to stick to the molded fenders and number plates that are made out of low surface energy plastics.
posted January 28, 2004 09:52 PM
Hi Doug, yes I did get the 'high bond' stuff. Mike, I was told this morning that it comes in only white and clear. Thanks for the info. on polypropelynes Todd, that's what I think these are.
-------------------- Dawn Ellis Signs by Dawn Long Beach, CA signsbydawn@aol.com
Trust yourself. Listen to the voice within. It is always right. Posts: 456 | From: Long Beach, California | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted March 12, 2004 02:20 PM
Hi Dawn & Doug, I hope you dont mind me butting in to your post but i wondered if you can help me. I have been making a few motocross graphics for two local shops. I am screening these onto thick clear plastic then laminating with a high bond 3m adhesive. I am experiancing real problems in getting them to stick to low energy plastics. They stick no problem to metal parts? I have seen a product that you are both talking about "high bond convex" what i would like to know is can i get this product here in the UK or do you know someone who would be willing to ship a sample to me? I would like to do away with the screen printing a print the convex with a roland PC60 machine is this possible? Hope you can advise me on this Best rgds Dave
-------------------- Dave Springate RR Graphics 14 Church Meadows Deal Kent England CT149QY dave@rrgraphics.fsnet.co.uk Posts: 4 | From: England | Registered: Mar 2004
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3M manufacture a variety of laminating adhesives for a variety of applications. See if you can get a demonstration of or obtain a sample of one of their 300LSE products to test. It will blow you away. Even sticks to oily metals.
Oh - also worth noting: If the substrate's surface is a bit rough or irregular, a thicker coat weight of adhesive is generally adviseable...so even if you are using a suitable adhesive formulation, you might want to try working with a heavier coat weight.
[ March 12, 2004, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Jon Aston ]
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted March 15, 2004 03:59 AM
Dave, I'm sure this Convex film from GMS can be printed on. Check out their website link in Doug's first response to my question. If they are unable to send you a sample then e-mail me and I'll send you some. It's been over a month and the dock steps I did with this is still looking good.
-------------------- Dawn Ellis Signs by Dawn Long Beach, CA signsbydawn@aol.com
Trust yourself. Listen to the voice within. It is always right. Posts: 456 | From: Long Beach, California | Registered: Jan 2003
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I also think you are dealing with polypropoline and it can be difficult. We managed to get the job done on some megaphones for the OU Cheerleaders a year ago.
My memory was that there were two methods. The first to try is a small propane torurch. Sound crazy but a quick wave back and foruth seals off the plasitcizers. Vinyl goes on and stays on too.
Don't worry Dawn, it won't blow up or quickly start a fire.
There is also a liquid solution and I will look it up for you but if you wish.
Hope to see you both again. Dawn, have you cut back on your smoking?
Joe
-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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