This logo was created long before computers were around. I'm not sure how the original art work was created, but 12-14 years ago when the outdoor sign was made (sandblasted redwood with logo in cut vinyl on metalic spray painted alumilite) this logo was scanned from a poor original and cut 12" tall by whatever"
Now, the outdoor sign is going to be part of a desk, an indoor desk, and the client wants this sign redone to look spify, and there is no clean artwork available after all these years.
So its my job to recreate this logo, and make it perfect, unlike the other shop who did not have the computer technology 12-14 years ago that we have today.
Here are a couple shots of the original vinyl cut logo, still holding up after all these years, although the background has faded.
THE CHALLENGE: COULD YOU RECREATE THIS LOGO FROM SCRATCH? (ITS MUCH HARDER THAN IT LOOKS)
List a step by step of how you would attempt to recreate this logo from scratch, only the image I have supplied is all you have to go by. The original is 12" tall. -------------------------------------- I'M NOT ASKING FOR ADVICE: I HAVE IT DONE, AND READY TO CUT OR EDGE PRINT...IT WAS A BITCH! ---------------------------------------
So, let's see who has the "right stuff" to come up with an easy solution to recreate this one! For fun!
Here is the logo:
As you can see, the art work / vinyl cuts are horrible by today's standards. 12-14 years ago this job would have passed inspection. Not so today.
Good Luck! (I'll show you how I reproduced it later on if this subject gets "hot" enough.
[ January 06, 2004, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: Dave Draper ]
posted January 06, 2004 08:23 AM
Good luck with your post Dave, but this would not have passed inspection in our shop before computers. Too many variations in thickness of lines.
-------------------- Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. 15 Warren Street Little Ferry, N.J. 07643 billsr@riedelsignco.com Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted January 06, 2004 08:36 AM
Well, heck, Dave... *I would break out the old art school tools. My rapidograph, T-Square, Compass, 18" Ruler & a pencil, sharpener, and good eraser, graphic paper, tracing paper, ink, fine Sharpie marker, masking tape, and a non-photo blue pencil just for good measure. If I had one, I'd use a light table too. *I would trace the logo with tracing paper. Then draw a grid over the bad artwork. Then I would blow this grid up onto my graphic paper tablet using my ruler and pencil, then go over the lines with a black sharpie. *Using the grid as a guide, and a ruler & compass & T-Square to get it all even, I would re-draw the logo with a pencil, then go over it with the black Sharpie. *I would put this mock-up under a fresh sheet of graphic paper. I would carefully tape the edges so that things didn't shift. * I would re-trace the cleaned-up logo onto the paper, using a rapidograph, the straight metal edge of the ruler, and my own careful hand. Then I would tediously fill in the whole thing with my trusty rapidograph. * I would make a registration border in the corners around the logo with my blue pencil...then I am done. Ready for scanning...sending to a printer...or putting in the birdcage. At least that's what they taught me to do at the analretentive art institute in Pittsburgh! (many years before I had purple hair) But I quit after 2 quarters. Good Luck! I hope this is what you wanted to see... Love- JILL
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted January 06, 2004 09:02 AM
ahhh the 70's modern look... yuk! Had a customer with similar taste, 3 colors- kelly green and brilliant blue and white filled in between, it was 1979. I would start out with a solid fill letter then use a griffold double blade swivle knife to make the "lines" for hand cut vinyl, or 2 pounce wheels with a space block rubber banded together works for pounce patterns. I think many of us here familiar with brushes could freehand this sucker with a good pattern and have way better results than what is pictured.
edited to ask>>> "?I thought we were doing this B.C.?!"
[ January 06, 2004, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: Stephen Faulkner ]
-------------------- "No excuses!.... No regrets!..."
posted January 06, 2004 09:04 AM
14 years ago, I would have taken the original logo and ran to the copy shop and enlarged it on a copier. From there, I would have digitized it and been done. PITA, definitely. These days, I would snap a digital picture and import the pic into my design program. From there, I would recreate a couple of elements and outline them. Make a couple of cuts, welds, etc. and be done with it. $250 to recreate it plus the cost of the sign. If the client was nice, I might give them a file on disk (for a $25 archive fee).
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted January 06, 2004 09:06 AM
The whole design is based on 8 concentric circles. Place the scanned image and start tracing the circles with the circle tool. Once the circles are sized... duplicate the quarters or halves the half a dozen times or so that's needed and put them in place.... join the endpoints. The tail of the "R" looks to be an eighth of the circle. The rest is subtractive outlining..... the finished product wouldn't look as uneven as their original... and for an extra $300 or so I'd give them the redraw on disk.
posted January 06, 2004 09:44 AM
Dave, this is an extremely simple logo to reproduce in my opinion. 20 minutes tops to recreate. A couple base lines to start each group followed by a bunch of offsets - delete the ends and undesired line segments away off and connect the appropriate lines.
I do this all the time when creating irregular shaped striping on design proposals.
Edit: Forgot to add - - a couple lines used to creat offsets to be used to cookie cut the gaps between element groupings too....piece o' cake.
posted January 06, 2004 09:47 AM
Dave...I see 6 individual partial circles sets...each made up of 8 concentric partial circles.
As to how to do it...I'd use the bitmap as a template, use the circle tool to create one circle and then use the contour tool to create the rest of the circles. Duplicate 7 times and move the duplicates to where they are needed. Use the rectangle to create the first straight line and then duplicate 7 times to create the first batch of straight lines. duplicate those as needed and position where needed. I would then weld as needed and remove the uneccesary nodes that will occur. Finally I would use a temporary contour here and there as needed to trim the ends of the circles where needed and then delete the temporary contour.
Hope that makes sense!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted January 06, 2004 10:12 AM
Well, Grundy, your very close to winning this thing.
Todd, I would like to see you in a design off contest to see you create this in 20 minutes! It would take twenty minutes just to study the lines and spaces, curves and sizes just to build the templets needed to do this.
I started with "R" first, did it ass backwards, and ended up deleteing the whole thing after an hour.
Then I built a concentric circle templet, copied it severl times, the broke it apart in sections that were needed.
Next I created the straignt lines, painstakingly resized and nudged to line up with the circles. That took more than 20 minutes.
Next the sections of lines and circle portions were filled with colors like red for the lines and black for the circles so that when I over lapped the sections to line up the tangents and start "welding" I could flip back and forth from wire frame to filled mode to makes sense of which lines to add additional points, delete points and weld. The welding and resizing of each of the six sections took 4 hours after I got it straight in my mind how to do proceed.
posted January 06, 2004 11:03 AM
Why oh why would I want to learn to recreate anything so dog-butt ugly? No offense, I realize it's an excercise in problem-solving, but really... Seriously, how about an excercise in reproducing something that is at least, visually appealing; like an example from an Atkinson book, or a 19th-century commercial logo. Anything.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted January 06, 2004 11:04 AM
Dave... I thought you said "from scratch". On my Gerber Composer...15 minutes tops. Thank God for computers! And yes it is Fugly! Love- JILL
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted January 06, 2004 11:10 AM
Cam, That's is a great idea, and since you thought of it, start a new thread, with a "study" you like and let's get designing. Its easy to sit back and let someone else do it. Its easy to say, not so easy to do.
posted January 06, 2004 11:19 AM
Dave I think you took the long way to do it.
In either CorelDRAW, Illustrator, or even AutoCAD this job is a piece of cake to set up - it's a bunch of circles and lines offset.
In AI, Corel or ACAD I'd just draw single line elements with a stroke width of whatever it needs to be, join it to an arc with the same stroke, then offset the single path however many times needed with the required spacing.
Then in AI or Corel it's as easy as making the stroked paths into outlines for cutting, and in ACAD it's just triming the ends to close them off.
I guess you can't offset lines in your sign program?
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted January 06, 2004 11:30 AM
I used Omega 1.56 I'm just now learning Adobe Illustrator 10 and have only gotten up to Bezier lines and manipulation in the tutorial.
I don't have a clue how to do this in Corel Draw, I do know my way round Adobe Photo Shop and Corel Photo paint, or course those programs are useless for this job.
I do know Adobe is light years ahead of Omega, well, duh, whose software ISN"T ahead of OMEGA, right?
posted January 06, 2004 01:13 PM
OK, I did it on my old slow Mac in Illustrator 9.0. It took exactly 33 minutes and 52 seconds. Dave, I guess you'd been better off spending some time in the Illustrator tutorial.
It was a simple case of bringing in your gif file and using it as a template. I made the series of circles, evenly spaced by using the offset path tool. Then I cut the vectors to get rid of the unwanted parts of the circles. A copy of the first set was used for the reversal of the arcs. By selecting the 2 endpoints with the open arrow you can join them.
To get the straight lines in there I used the pen tool, clicked on the open end point, held shift to keep the line straight and clicked where it should end.
I kept everything as a line until everything was joined. Then I chose the line weight that matched the template, then I outlined the stroke.
The R was then made from parts of the B. Example, the leg of the R is the top swoosh of the B. I reflected it then rotated it into position, then trimmed it to size. The curvy ends were shaped by copying the shape closest to it, doing an offset path to the proper distance, bring it to front, compound path the group of lines, then select the whole bunch and do a minus front. I would have scaled the final output to size when I went to plot it.
Jill, new from scratch I could have done it faster, but in this case it needs to be done scratch AND to scale, so spacing and line weight had to match. That took a little more time. And look closer, the ends of the lines match the curve shape, that took a few extra minutes too.
Dave, keep learning Illustrator. You'll be glad you did.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5400 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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That is the power of Illustrator over Omega, which I have come to appreciate more and more every day. I'm truly impressed and so glad it took you over 20 minutes, or I would have been eating crow right now!
This has been fun for me, a pain for others, butt ugly for still yet others.
BUT...its better than an OT funny post on the difference between men and women.
posted January 06, 2004 02:18 PM
Dave Draper - I didn't know you were using Omega! That is one program I would NEVER use for vector drawing...it has the worst UI and drawing tools ever made by man in my opinion.
I always do my vector work in Illustrator and then import it into Omega....
I think Dave S. did it about as quickly as possible. I will readily concede that my estimates usually end up doubling in reality...so I would come in around Dave S's time or 40 minutes max.
DaveD - - you did an outstanding job of recreating that logo though! Great job and congratulations on doing this thru Omega...you're a real trooper to achieve what you did in that program.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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38 minutes from start to finish using CorelDraw 8 and Corelpaint.
Fairly simple process...
Create a series of 8 circles, staggered 1/2 inch in size with equal outlines in black. The smallest circle being 1' and the largest being 7.5' in diameter. Align them center/center and group them.(I used an outline 5.04 setting)
Next, create a group of 8 straight lines that have the same outline settings of the circles and align them to the circle.
When the alignment is right, group the lines and move them to one side. (I had the number 10 in fact.)
The shapes can now be copied into Corelpaint in a new window and with a little additive and subtractive masking, you can layer sections of the shapes you need into the design.
I got this...(reduced so it could be posted)
Arguably, the "R" needs some fine tuning, but easily done with a little extra tweaking on the rotattion settings (did it freehand).
That was fun. Whadda we win? Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted January 06, 2004 06:46 PM
Re-read this post and decided take up the challenge.... I've been using Illustrator since it was "Illustrator 88"... before they numbered the versions. I also teach vector part time art at the local community college. I actually did redrew this logo twice just so I could time myself.... first time was just over 22 minutes... second time was just under 17 minutes. Figuring this stuff out on a computer is a lot of fun.... and I bet that most of you could run circles around me with a striping brush or a lettering quill!!!!! My first pinstriping job took me almost 8 hours... I was proud of it until an "ol' timer" said it should have only taken 2
posted January 06, 2004 07:06 PM
I agree with most of you folks. This was a great little excercise in reproducing a logo that already existed.
I posted "how" I would do it and soon discovered that it wasn't quite as simple as I had thought. But that was the whole purpose of the excercise.
As far as it being "ugly"..well maybe now..but back in the 70's it was perhaps not too bad. And if it is still in use today as someone's identification then it has obviously stood the test of time.
Hell, back in the 70's lots of us wore bell bottom hip hugger jeans with tie died shirts and belt buckles and necklaces with peace signs on em. They were cool then but might be a we bit dated in these more sophistocated times.
Good post Dave!!!!!!!!
If I can come up with something similar for folks to try I will. In fact I think I have one right now if anyone is interested.
IF THERE IS AN INTEREST.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3488 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted January 06, 2004 09:53 PM
This wouldn't be too hard in a CAD drawing program that I use. For folks who want to import it to Adobe or Corel from there it would be a snap. In my case I don't do vinyl so I don't need it that way.
I use the CAD program to get hard shapes like this perfectly... then print it out and scan it back in and trace over it in Photoshop or Painter with my drawing pad to put the fun, hand drawn look back in and get rid of the technical computer generated look. The end result isn't crooked (like Dave's original) just a little more pleasing to my eye than a computer generated version.
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8739 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted January 07, 2004 01:40 AM
much too busy a day to try the redraw, but I did think of how I would have approached it, so I'll post that.
I would scan & place the scan in illustrator & lock it. Then, using the circle tool, & cutting & adding line segments, I would create the coutour of 3 shapes(The "R" & 2 sections of the "B").
The white space between the 4th & 5th of the 8 lines would be the centerline where I redraw each shape. I probably would connect both ends of the R together with a quick rough-drawn line so I am working with closed contours, then assign a stroke thickness that would match the thickness of that white space.
I would save a copy of this basic centerline to use as a starting point for my other 2 shapes.
Then, to finins the "R" I would "outline path" & "release compound" After deleting the centerline, I would keep repeating the last step until I had my 8 concentric black lines (made of 16 concentric vectors. I would use my crop tools to get rid of the excess where I joined the loose ends, as well as at the "overlap"
posted January 07, 2004 12:01 PM
Started 9:45 Finished 10:01 Signlab Ver 5 2 Phonecalls during that time.. Time to post on BB TOO LONG Time to Get paid... Priceless
Assuming everyone is being truthfull, hmmmmm, this job went from my 4 hours of hell to an easy 16 minutes with distractions.
So, what started out to be "see if you can do this" turned to "lets see who can do it the fastest", which was a welcome twist to this thread.
Now, as for if this logo is ugly and should it be upgraded, let me tell you who it is for.
These people are laboratory testing bio people, who only work with hospitals and doctors, probably make most of their money checking for cancer or aids.
Do they need a new logo...no way! This logo does not advertise to the public in a way that gives them more business, they already have a "nitch" and little competition.
This is their "branding" trade mark and they will never change it most likely. It may be old, but it is definetly unique. I would even go so far as to say one of the doctors designed it himself back in his college days in art class.
I do remember this being a Letteraset (sp) font. Those where those plastic sheets with rub off black lettering.
A designer would buy a sheet(s) of letters in a an available point size, up to 1 inch or 72 points, then they would tediously rub down one letter at a time to spell out a word, then cut and paste this to their whole drawing, flyer, or whatever they were working on.
Sign painters would buy these sets of letters, rub off the letters to from words or phrases or a business name, then place this under a projector aimed at a blank wall, then trace the lettering out by hand to make a pounce pattern. And if the lettering was a little out of proportion from one side of the text to the other, they could at least make "templet" pounce patterns then refine the finished sign layout to perfection. Very time consuming.
Ok, Grundy, you said you got an idea for the next thriller...so go for it.
Thanks to all who found time to play along.
[ January 07, 2004, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: Dave Draper ]
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