I followed the book(s) on pricing this one. Assuming that you only had to letter the vehicle, what's "ballpark" for you. Yes, the customer is questioning me. I'm going to shave a couple bucks off for him, not much, and I'm sticking to the rest of it. Gimmie a price here I have not asked for prices before, I feel that you get what you get and should usually get more. I don't want to be ANY kind of lowballer, I don't need that crap. I also want to be in the ballpark and considered to be fair.
You tell me. This truck is about 17' long (sides) and about 8' wide. Lettering was done with One shot and HP vinyl. Front window is vision film. Add design time... about .5 hours.
After I get a few responses, I'll post what I got... or if you are squeamish, e-mail me direct and I'll get back to you.
THANKS.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Ballpark around $1,000 give or take. Dem's real world prices around here.
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Jeff,
I would price this vehicle more in the $1500 range, for the vehicle body graphics. I've never used the vision vinyl for windows, so I'm not familiar with the cost of that. Add on whatever you feel that is worth.
I've done a couple 14' long construction trailers recently, also with a reverse panel logo on them. Not as diverse of a design as yours, encompassing a total logo & copy area of approx. 4'x 11' on each side, and with only a miniscule amount of copy on the front and back. I charged $800.00 for it.
I charge more for vehicles with rivets than without, and encourage them to bring me the vehicle clean by mentioning that it would cost more otherwise. Posted by Jeffrey Vrstal (Member # 2271) on :
Thanks everyone for the feedback.I charged $1630.50. This was for the lettering and design time alone. I charged $1732.00 for the materials and fabrication, materials at cost (around $525.00) and the rest as labor. He has no problem with the last part. The way he went on, you'd think I kidnapped his family. He paid the bill, reluctantly. Funny situation, I'd rather be known for getting a higher commission than undercutting my fellow sign guys, but then again, it's a small town and I don't want the rep that I'm gouging everyone.
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Hey Jeff!
I really do think it's important for us each to keep up with our pricing. (both as in "updated" and as in "up in amount". )
One way of staying current is to keep ourselves in check, as you've done here.
Many of us who have been in this industry a while can easily sink into staying with pricing we've been used to charging, and not changing with the times. The newcomers come into it clueless, and could also use some help establishing themselves in that area.
I'm continually reminded of the changing times, when I see my own bills rising ... some at alarming rates!
Some of those seeming "high" numbers, really don't look so bad when you look around and take in the big picture. I think one of the tricks to learn is letting them roll off your tongue in a matter of fact fashion!
I think ya done good Jeff! Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
Hi Jeff, Nice work! Am I reading this right? Are you saying that you charged a total of $3362.00? A seperate charge for design of around $1,500.00?
Posted by Jeffrey Vrstal (Member # 2271) on :
Neil, no... you're not reading that right. The 1600 was for lettering and design. The balance is fabricating that box. I billed 30 hours of labor plus materials at cost. This came to around 1700.
The question is what would you charge for a similar job in paint and vinyl assuming that the guy brings you a vehicle ready to letter.
This came as a flatbed with no box. Inside the box is the entire apparatus or working components that make up the vehicle. The customer wanted to conceal the components and have a clean outside look. The interlocking panels are removed in a specific manner in accordance with how the machine is operated. This was designed as well as the logo. There was no charge for designing the box.
This is how it went:
Lettering & logo design - $1630.50 Materials at cost - $532.34 Labor - $1200.00 Total = $3362.84
[ October 11, 2002, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: Jeffrey Vrstal ]
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Jeff,
The ballpark I've given was based on the truck lettering job itself. For instance, the construction trailer I mentioned as an example, was for the a logo they already had established ... not my design.
On your job, I did not understand here that this also included a logo design for this company.
Generally, when I price logos I consider a multitude of things. For one, the time I have in the designing, encompassing consultation with the client, and any modifications. I also consider the various usage, and it's exposure. (corporate or small business etc.)
My guess on cost for the logo layout you had done for this truck ... provided you didn't have alot of "go-around" time with the client ... would've been in the $600-$750 range above the actually truck lettering cost.
With that and the additional cost for the front "vision film" window lettering, I see that I still don't reach the amount you did. To this I say ... more power to you!
I think you have a good handle on what this job was worth, it's in line, and in no way have you gouged anyone.
I'm learning something here! Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
Sorry Jeff I should have read that with more closely, Yes your price seems just fine to me.
Posted by Stephen Faulkner (Member # 2511) on :
Just another opinion here.... I built a considerable truck lettering business over 25 yrs. that net $250,000 a year with just 2 of us, all we did was fleet trucks and independents, no signs. That said here are my views on it. 1. I never once worried about my competitors prices. My overhead is mine.... not thiers. 2. I price according to advertising value and NEVER broke down my pricing for the customer to then haggle over what I charge per hour or whatever. 3. Is this guy coming back to me next year with 6 trucks?
At one time my shop would have done 5 of these trucks in a day and my materials cost was about 50% lower than my competitors..... I still would have billed $1800 per truck or $1500 for 3 or more in the same month. Most of my accounts never complained about price... my approch was always to work within their budget... then price was never a subject. I am a faithful follower of Bert Rosenkrantz school of business.... as for pricing guides????.... it is the worst thing to ever happen to the trade in my humble opinion, any newbe that came around my shop waving one of the damn things got his ear chewed pff and his little book tossed in the paint skins bucket.
Posted by Jean Shimp (Member # 198) on :
When you consider all the advertisement value from that size lettering I think your customer got a great deal.
Posted by Penny Baugh (Member # 3275) on :
Geet,
I'm listening. No price guides. No thought to what the competition charges.
But yet...there must have been some formula you used. Do I just sit down and say, "Hmmm, what am I worth"? Some days I have a pretty high opinion of my work and I'd be exhorbitant. Other days...
Posted by Stephen Faulkner (Member # 2511) on :
OK forgive me for being long winded here.... I was pricing 4x8 site signs at $450 back in the early 80's much to the dismay of my competition, however I tried to give a good value like a professional design and all that. The average 4x8 up here was $250 and some alot less. All this was B.C. (before computers). I had a formula labor + materials + mark up on materials = cost, then add a 30-50% for profit. After that the advertising value of the sign puts it in the $450 - $550 range. The first formula is to make sure you are covering your costs. Now then after many years as a full commercial sign shop (Carved, blasted, walls, installations, show cards, lawn mowers and mail boxes)I decided to focus on what turned the fastest buck for me.... and with the computers it was trucks, now a whole new formula???..... nope the same applies to anything that we apply our trade to and the customer is ultimatly the one who decides the value.... it is my business to seperate him from that dollar amount. If the guy came to me asking how much???... I simply turn it around and ask him.... how much is your budget? Sometimes I have to explain the value of good graphics on a vehicle that gets alot of visibilty and soon we have an understanding. Over the years in the same area as a sign maker most of my customers were repete and never bothered to ask how much?.... they also got a fair value and keep pounding on my door. If they are leaving me over price.... I never needed them. By the way I use to turn away 75% of new prospect customers within 5 minutes of talking with them. I was never published in the phone book and never advertised.... I did however take very good care of those who used me as their sign guy. If you have questions about advertising values do a simple phone survey, clip average and large size ads from the newspaper and magazines.... then call for pries for the ads.... then write that number on the ad itself and note the price per number of days it will run for that price.... and keep it handy for the customers to see as well.... then consider a sign that works year round and an average of 5 years. Trucks are even more visible but you get the concept. If you worry about the competitions prices you are wasting your time.... feel free to e-mail me if you want to know how to get your hourly rates and profit margins.
Posted by Brian Crothers (Member # 2888) on :
The longer I am in business the more I don't know. Soon I won't know anything at all. Maybe it's because I'm on the West Coast? What the heck is a "clip average". What is an "advertising value". Depending on the medium one uses for advertising, the cost varies greatly, but the vague rule out here is readership or audience. Does this mean if somebody drives less than another person you charge less for vehicle lettering work? Less for a short haul truck than a long haul truck? Less for a long haul because the advertising is geared to a local market? More for advertising that is national on a long haul truck. Then, how do you define long haul? USA/CANADA? or does it need to include Mexico? Anyone who turns away $750,000.00 per annum is obviously onto something good! Please explain.
Posted by Stephen Faulkner (Member # 2511) on :
Well Brien maybe I made it sound more complicated than it is.... clip an average ad and a large size ad..... is how that sentence should read. The point of doing that is simple.... an ad in the newspaper here 3" X 3" is about $450.00 for one time in the newspaper, a magazine can be more than that depending on the magazine. If you compare that one time ad to a sign or truck lettering the point is obvious. As for turning away 75% of people coming through the door it breaks down pretty evenly... 25% are just going to waste your time fishing for a low price.... 25% can't afford what they want.... and the last 25% have poor credit and will just try to find a way to get you to work cheap and then not pay for it. I had a 97% recievables rate at that time and we were plenty busy. I don't want all the work just the good paying jobs.
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