Thought I'd run this past you guys for any final tweaks. The Portfoio Page to me is like a spell check!!!
Thanks for the comments...
A before and after comparison-Not intended to slam his business card, but what a difference in image and feel a few colors can make!
[ January 16, 2005, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: Chuck Gallagher ]
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Chuck,
Not to go out on a limb, but I would recheck your spelling on "pruning"...
I like the new look. It is very clean and professional.
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
oops! Nice pune!!! Thanks Bruce. I'll be bauck...
[ January 16, 2005, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Chuck Gallagher ]
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Chuck,
Instead of using a smaller size on the area code, try using the same height but using a lighter version of the Claredon... eg. using Black for the phone number and using Light for the area code. I would also tighten the spacing up and elongate it a pinch.
I really dig the tree graphic. It is much more comtemporary looking than the other card. That is what I call a "Printer's Special".
Sorry for catching the boo boo... I have done that myself and I am sure I will again sometime... Hahahahahahaha!
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
Ok Teach! I'll go do that....
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
You didn't actually ask for a critique, so I may be stepping out of bounds here, but I'll offer this as advice (my opinion):
When I use the squint test on this layout, the black all jumps out ahead of everything else (greatest constrast with the background). To me the phone number has too much priority. I would make it a light weight font and make it a color with less contrast to the background. You are not advertising phone numbers but a tree service.
Also I would reverse the colors on the name - dark lettering with a light shade. Also, I would make "Insured" a lighter color. It's important but shouldn't compete with the priority copy.
The pictorial is great. In my opinion, the listing in script could be a color with less contrast and the bullets even lighter or in a different color.
Sorry for beating up your very nice layout. Overall it is very good, I believe. You have made about a 500 percent improvement over what they had.
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
No Problem Ray. Thanks for the eyes. I'll go make a few more changes and be back. I too didn't care for all the lettering jumping out, but it is all important to this guy and the layout looks better a ways back instead of this big post in your face. Anyway, thanks for the comments.
[ January 16, 2005, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: Chuck Gallagher ]
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
how 'bout diece one....
Posted by Jack Keith (Member # 4499) on :
Hey Chuck;
Looks good.
I would add some negative space between the "insured," "trimming," etc. and again between the "trimming," and phone number. Another problem I see is the number of typefaces you've used. Maybe the "Tree Care" in a bolder version of the "Cabool" typeface. I think the type you are using for it takes from the punch of "Smiths." Doing the phone number in it as well might unify things a bit more, too.
Now, having said all that...whatta I know? It's kinda thrilling to get to pick your stuff apart. but you do a lot better stuff than me.
Later; Jack
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
It was just a test to see if anyone was paying attention!!!
Thanks Jack. I'll go back at it somo!
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
It's going to be a beaut, Chuck. My two cents worth... I think that I'd like to see all the green copy shrunk to about 3/4 of the size it is. It seems like it is more attached to the border than the body of the card. I really like the way the color in the trunk is picked up in the Tree Care text. How come it is in a square format? Is this a common business card format? I just wonder how it will fit in wallets etc.
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
Hi Kelly,
Well, it's just a design for the spot on his truck he wants to put it on. He just gave me the card for information and border is just where I made a jpeg to post it. Seems like I have trouble with lot's of text though! He wanted to use all of it and wanted to be seen farther than your normal layout would be. So, we'll get it right before long!
Thanks Kel
Posted by Dan Antonelli (Member # 86) on :
Chuck -- just be careful about not pumping up tree service --- the Smith is so dominant, and yes, the tree graphic does help -- but if tree service is lost and all the viewer gets at a quick glance is "Smiths" , that's not good.
Having 'insured' so close to it also detracts. I might try to make smiths less dominant, or get a beefier face or one with better distance legibility for Tree Service---
Its a helluva improvement--- way to kick it up a notch for the guy--
Did you charge for this logo -- cause you know what's next --- t-shirts, cards etc....
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
If we can critique this:
I see too much of a sign layout compared to a logo or identity. This may work on a sign but I believe the trees are a littl busy to be printed small.
I would break this into a logo first with how it will be used then think about secondary copy and it's various uses. You really dont want the sign to look like a business card, the same applied to the business card not looking like signs.
I personally believe that squeezing or stretching a font is a no-no (there are times but should be rare) It is especialy bad when you have the type face like "SMITH'S" stretched with "Tree Care" different. I count 6 type faces (whether they vary in weight scale or typeface) I think that is too many myself and makes the layout more busy. Then add the trees, effects and outlines, it looks even more so. I also think the black around "SMITH'S" is a little thick and the blue outline is not effective...not bad, but I think it add more complexity to an already busy layout.
Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
Hey Chuck!
I have nothing to add from a design / layout critique perspective -- but I want to thank you for "throwing it out there" for some critique - and for your good-natured response to all of the suggestions. I love to hear (read, I guess) how people like Bruce, Ray, Jack, Kelly and Rick think.
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Definately an improvement. But all the advice given here seems to be great. Here's my 2¢... I'd like to see the area code the same style & weight as the rest of the phone # in the same typeface as "CABOOL" and then switch that one to what you used for "Trimming" etc. (In defense of Chuck's making the last name large, I do that a lot. There may be several tree services in his area and Mr. Smith might want his name to stand out) Love....Jill
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
Just a little commentary on Chuck's Post and the responses - As far as all the critiques, comments etc.... To me it means that there is enough respect here for your work and capabilities and confidence that your peers don't feel they have to pussy foot around you. IMHO that is the greatest compliment you can get. That's what we really learn and grow from, and although some are miles ahead of me, I don't think there is one person here who can't still learn from both the experts and the humble masses. I love the feedback from the big guys, but I also like to hear from those who are fresh to the trade, because they see things closer to what the general public sees, and ultimately that is our target audience.
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
Thanks everyone for all the comments on the design and myself....what a place huh! I put this together in about an hour with a one off in mind for this guy. Initially he just wanted something really simple. He's a simple guy and that's fine, but I had to step it up some. I do get lost on lots of text sometimes. Seems like it's all important with almost the same priority on differnt points of the information when in reality it's not supposed to be.
Anyways, thanks for all the input and I'll go back to the drawing board mainly for the viewers because if it gets too nice it won't fit his personality which is Laaaaid....Baaaaack!!!
Have a great day,
Posted by William DeBekker (Member # 3848) on :
One Question. If this is a Business Card Design. Why is it square?? or is it just the way it was exported. Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
Ok Class,
Here's what I did based on most everyones ideas. Did we get it?
Thanks for the help.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
Much better.
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
Thanks for the help Ray.
Here's one more. I lightened the fade on Tree Care and killed the leaves and tucked the spacing in on the tag line.
Anyone else have anything to add?
Thanks all...
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
I lied. Here's one, one more. This time I flipped the fade to get the white off the white in Smith's and also changed the outline color from the light tan to light green. Also knocked down some color on the leaves. I think I like this one the best. I will be curious to the man's reponse, but if nothing else another lesson in learning!
Lemme know!
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
Wow, a lot better....I like the center one the most, the green is subtle, the top one would work too. I have to agree with everyone else on your attitude, I learn the most when someone really digs into it and finds something off. I have a great couple of freinds that do not mince words and we have fun with it. Great work Chuck.
[ January 17, 2005, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Rick Chavez ]
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
Thanks Rick,
You are right on the amount of font styles. My bad. And I guess I've confused some with the business card post. The design is for his truck only at this point.
Bill, sorry I missed your post, but it's not for a business card.
Thanks again...
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Much Better. Nice and tight now. Still not keen on the different weights in the phone # The "insured" looks like an afterthought.... Could you thicken that line under the trees and do a INSURED in there with a reverse weed? I like the right justified too. Love....Jill
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
Thanks Jill,
I've not done a phone number this way before, but it was a suggestion from Bruce, so I thought I'd try it. Hey Bruce what do you think? And the insured is an after thought, but I don't know what to do with it!
Thanks again all...
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
Ok Jill,
This one's for you! Is this sort of what you meant?
Thanks for the input!
Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
Looks good Chuck. All the advice above is great. Jill, as far as the different weights on the phone number, I do this alot. To me, it just gives it a different look than just one line of the same numbers. Sometimes I even make the first number of each set a little bigger. Basically all just a visual thing to give a little better look.
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
Thanks John,
So, does this mean I have to change the phone number back??? Kind of fun to see progress though!
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
That's it! Love....Jill
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
Wow, what a metamorphosis.
Chuck you're a good sport to take all this in a positive way and take a good design into warp level. Good job.
Here's one more tip. if you're still in a receptive mood...show things smaller with more air around them. Makes it much easier for me to take in and see.That's true for when you print it out to show client also, or set it up to email them - margin rules...It also helps me with the 'squint' test and to identify balance problems.
[ January 17, 2005, 08:25 PM: Message edited by: Joe Rees ]
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
Thanks Joe,
I don't guess I know about the squint test, but I can see what you guys mean by it. When I do print this it will have a sufficient border around it. I just grabed the image and made a bitmap to post up here and didn't really put a border around it, but it would still even look better posted that way and would probably help with the problem spots as you said. The next posts I do will have more negative space to sit on!
Thanks brutha,
Posted by J & N Signs (Member # 901) on :
Cool....Good input...Good reception...Good results!
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
Thanks everyone, that was fun! Now which one am I gonna make? Might as well help me pick too...
Posted by Jack Keith (Member # 4499) on :
Hey Chuck;
Really enjoyed this exercise! Thanks for being such an open designer. Takes a lot of guts to throw stuff out there and wait for the response of other sign people, then receive all the suggestions with such a humble attitude. 'Course all the people who responded to this one don't seem to be ego driven either (well, with the possible exception of me, that is...he he.) What a great, sharing community!
By the way, I kinda think my favorite is the one with the "insured" in the bar under the trees. Any one you do will be great. I look forward to seeing it on the mean streets of Cabool.
Jack
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
Hiya Jack,
So, that's one vote for Jill's idea!
Thanks for all the humbling gratuities. I never really thought about it. I figure if you want advice you have to open to it, but I like knowing I still have some long lost humblism left.
This is a great place and it's helped me more ways then I can count. Thanks go out to Steve and Barb for such a great place to exchange and learn.
BTW I vote for Joe's. His looks the best!!!
Now we need to see some of your work too !
See ya
[ January 17, 2005, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: Chuck Gallagher ]
Posted by Dan Antonelli (Member # 86) on :
Chuck -
Look at what you started with and what you arrived at. You were not far off to start with, and with a few tweaks here and there, you've created a nice image for this business, and have taken a proactive approach to learning to be better, and also, helping your clients achieve better results with a positive image.
As long as you try to be better each and every day, you can't help but achieve great things.
This was a nice exchange of ideas, and it was great to have everyone check their ego's at the door and offer useful advice.
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
Thanks Dan,
Your comment about undermining "Tree Service" was right on and it turned the design around. Can your vision go bad on your design eyes?
Anyway, thanks for pointing that out and in a way of respect too! Professionally smooth!!!
Take Care
Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
Great post people. Posted by Jeremy Paul Taylor (Member # 4441) on :
Just like to add to what has already been expressed great thread & a quality end product ! Its a great looking layout thats for sure thanks for sharing
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
Hey Jeremy,
This is a great place to come together and help become better. I can't say enough to the people that gave their time and input to help me and others watching the posts! Glad we could help you in some way and thanks for the comment on the design.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Applause]](graemlins/applause.gif)
Love....Jill
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![[Thanks]](graemlins/thanks.gif)