The news today has reported that a cow in the USA has been discovered to have the "Mad Cow" disease. Other foreign countries have immediately placed an imbargo on ALL U. S. beef. This has been something that Canadian beef producers have lived with for the better part of a year....no export market.This will no doubt affect the economy of cattle producing areas in a very negative way.
We'll now have to depend HEAVILY upon the integrity and moral fibre of farmers / ranchers to do the right thing...and those decisions won't be easy ones. Suppose you were a rancher who had worked a lifetime to upgrade and develop the quality of their herd. Your ranch may have even been passed down to you by preceeding generations. Now you discover one of your cows showing symptoms of Mad Cow Disease. Do you report this, or do you shoot the cow and bury it and say nothing to anyone. Disclosure might mean that you lose your herd, ranch, livleyhood, and the entire export market for all other beef producers. Dispose of that cow, say nothing, and perhaps no other cow gets infected and it all "blows over". What's really "the right thing" in this scenario? I truely wouldn't want to have to make such a call or determination, would you? Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Ken, I think it might be a wise thing (if they haven't done it already) for all livestock farmers to ban together and set up a non-profit fund which collects "dues" based on sales.
Farmers belonging to this "beef club" must contractually agree to feed their cattle, and operate their business to defined stringent safety standards...and they must only buy their cattle from those that belong to the club and also adhere to the standards.
A portion of the dues goes to a small traveling army of inspectors that get yearly bonuses based on the violations they find and document.
When the occassional club member has a mad cow that somehow slipped through the cracks, the club supports the farmer through the fund until he get's authorized to raise/sell cattle again.
His dues go up at some point (just like in the insurance business) because of his claim for a specified period of time and he is put on a strict watch and test list for the inspectors.
Any violators are immediately kicked out of the club....and a list of members in good standing are maintained and distributed to all the major beef buyers (McDonald's, etc....)
Also, the farmers must document defined security practices including randomly timed surveilance measures....It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the PETA crowd would be willing to infect and merge a bad cow into a herd in an effort to drastically diminish the demand for good 'ol fresh beef. Their hate strategies are well documented.
And, although they are quick to say-it-ain't-so, one has to seriously consider bio-terrorism from the Bin Laden type whackos. The food supply IS one of their stated targets.
Edit: Oh, and just because there is a "usda approved" stamp on your package of burger....that doesn't mean squat. Chances are that 1 out of a hundred meat sources were never checked.
[ December 24, 2003, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Del Badry (Member # 114) on :
Wow, does this subject hit home close to me, mad-cow basically shut my buisness down last may-august, working mainly with east central alberta car dealers whose main market was Alberta Beef, i drove around feeling sorry for the farmers,truckers, auction people.. even the packers.. it was traumatic ... it really ripped thru the local level retail markets,, last summer many retailers went thru a ghost town like event.So know im just a mad-cow alien from alberta in BC
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
i dont wana be doomsday soothsayer here....but its been 14 YEARS for me....of not eating any MEAT, CHICKEN , and i will do seafood(in LA.)heheheh....... i grew up with parents from the great depression, and to them eating meat at every meal was a sign of the "the good life", to them. also i spent a lot of my youth on a dairy farm where steak and eggs for breakfast was the norm. so was hunting and eating squirel, rabbit, and venison. also on the farm every fall we butchered a couple cows and 1/2 dozen pigs. i think if most meat eaters would do this to, they wouldnt be meat eaters. none of this meat was anywhere near the stuff you buy in the market today. and if any of you want to futher curtail your meat intake i suggest reading DIET FOR NEW AMERICA, then you will understand what big business has done to the food market and why we have such a problem with obesity, cancer, and strains of viruses that dont respond to nothing but the most powerful antibiotics.......i also havent eat at a fast food place in all that time....
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
OP's nonsense notwithstanding, I saw a few documentaries and news reports on the plight of these farmers and ranchers. It is really heart breaking to see strong men who have faced so many obstacles throughout their life, reduced to tears. Tough choices for sure Ken. Hey Joe, everything doesn't always have to relate to you, your life, or agenda. Sheesh.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
sorry dave(in a hal the computer voice) read the book then tell me its nonsence!!!!! your making an assumption not based on anything other then ....your own life....
Posted by Karen Sartain (Member # 241) on :
All you beef eaters might want to order your beef from some REAL ranchers (as opposed to the fake cowboy types that run big feedlots where the Mad Cow stuff is an issue). We support our local ranchers who know all their stock and do their own butchering & processing. Good old fashioned grass fed on the range cattle...you wouldn't believe the difference in the taste as opposed to the feedlot cardboard cow type meat. (OP, I try, but I still gotta have my steak once in awhile HHmmmmm...why does "fear" always take the front seat...don't panic, just grow yer own, or find someone who doesn't feed their beef other beef Theres tons of REAL family type ranches out there to choose from...its just not going to be at your favorite local corporate market.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
i agree with karen on this...if your gona eat meat,get it local or from someone who raises it the old fashioned way. those that like to hunt the deer population in most states are overpopulated. also when i hunted and ate meat, rabbit and squirrel where two of the best tasting wild meat.
[ December 25, 2003, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Needed brain food....so I ate the Webster's Dictionary. Lots of fiber!!!
It's all good! Rapid
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
OP's nonsence? hmmm. he is living a life that is becomming more common. Lots of people are finding out about the predigested food thats being sold to us and is really harming our health.
its well known in health food circles that FREE RANGE animals are much better for you. For example. Salmon comes in pond raised or wild versions, Pond raised eat corn and other meat by products. Tastes ok but does not have the food values salmon s known for. g? Wild salmon is completly different. Its meat is much denser and fine grained. Tastes completly different and ahs al the food values for which salmon is so famous.
Did you know that red rice yeast is the original cholesterol drug? It was discovored by a drug company who found (stole) that the chinese were growing it for 1000 years. Today red yeast rice is banned from the usa even tho is is proven to reduce cholesterol without the side effects of statin drugs..
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
merry xmas all..
[ December 25, 2003, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Curtis hammond ]
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
Ditto what Karen said.
I already raise hogs, might also go into beef, as I saw an oven roast (not prime rib) the other day priced at $47.50. A big roast, mind you, but not THAT big. Wow $47.50!
What gets me is when I go into a lunchroom where all the guys are sitting around eating stuff from Burger king, KFC, McDonald's, etc, and they treat me like icky-freako 'cause I show up with pork that I raised and slaughtered myself. Hey, at least I know how this animal lived, ate, died. They know none of that stuff about what they're eating. I guess it's the blood and guts part, but aren't they a total accomplice in the demise of the beast that they're chewing on???
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
iam an old farm boy, and when i go back to pa where do i wind up at? on a farm with my boyhood friend. he raises a small herd of beef to sell to locally. when iam there he tell me how bad it is, putting all that money into the cow and when he takes a few to auction(the rest is sold to freinds and local people)that the price of beef on the hoof(price the guy who raised the beef gets)is kept so low by the big beef producers, that its almost not worth the time to feed, raise, pay a vet to check the animal, and keep it healthy. i say this in reguard to davids post. it aint the farmer that makes all the money on the beef, ITS THE PROCESSOR, that controls the prices and makes the price of meat what it is in the store. dont quote me on this but tom(my freind in pa)said when he went to auction that .43-.50 CENTS a pound was the goin price.....to top that, the price paid per pound on the hoof, is damn near the same as it was 10-15 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Now the US is claiming that the "mad cow" is believed to have been imported from Canada?!
Aaaargh...can't they come up with a simple test to administer to every incoming/outgoing animal?
Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
quote:Aaaargh...can't they come up with a simple test to administer to every incoming/outgoing animal?
EVERY animal? You would be scared to death if you knew how little of our food supply is actually checked.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
todd like i said...read DIET FOR NEW AMERICA, this is almost 15 yr old book.....and they still do most of what the book details....i talk about grownin up on a dairy farm. and we always sold a few cows a year to the slaughter house. old milkers that dont produce, cant birth a calf, seems to have one to many problems, vets visits the animal once to often......time to become food and glue!!!!!!!!!BUT....we never ever butchered one of these...for our own meat!!!!!
[ December 28, 2003, 01:44 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
Thinking this an interesting moral question, I posed it to a few of my friends, one being a Montana rancher. Here is his reply.....
The question, as stated, is far too simple.
The answer to the question, as stated, will vary by an individual's integrity. I would be honest about it. There's too much at stake. But then I probably wouldn't have gotten myself in that predicament in the first place. My brood stock would come from a ranch that did not ever use rendered animal feed. Grass fed or supplemented with whole grain would be perfectly safe. If the government wasn't there to spin and protect them, the big feed lot operators would collapse, as they should. But, in any case, the small grass fed operation is in a good position to get high prices. But he'll have to sell locally.
In Montana, and probably Wyoming, the ranchers do employ the SSS attitude, 'Shoot, Shovel, & Shutup!' But that's in reference to wolves, a protected species. The impact of such an act (with wolves) is very localized.
Large cattle operations and feed lots feed rendered animal products to the cattle, and that is where the problem originates. This practice is supposed to be outlawed. But what does that mean to a person with no integrity? It still goes on. The small rancher buys stock in good faith and has no way of knowing wether the stock he's buying is healthy. Thank God for computers, because they make records keeping easy. And they make records destruction fast and easy. Again, it depends on someone's integrity.
It is worth knowing that cattle raised on grass can not get BSE. It just can't happen unless the animal had BSE before it was put on grass. Also, it is thought that BSE cannot be transmitted to other animals (including humans) simply by eating a steak (muscle tissue). Nervous system tissue has to be consumed in order to get the disease. Apparently it is a virus, one which is virtually indestructible even at prolonged high temperatures.
Because it is indestructible, even at prolonged high temperatures, it shouldn't be put in animal feed as it has been and probably still is. It is also worth knowing that a lot of the stuff that you and I would probably bury, if we had to butcher our own beef, ends up in hot dogs, sausage, and things like that. 'Things like that' most likely contain nervous system tissue. "Bottom Line" operations don't throw away anything. Absolutely nothing!
Are you aware of the concentration of packing houses? They used to be common in every community 20 or 30 years ago, now all the cattle and sheep and chickens end up in a small handful of packing houses which control prices and content. Personally, I don't wonder that BSE has happened. It is a direct result of "Bottom Line" mentality.
And, are you aware of 'downers'? When an animal comes in for slaughter and is so sick it keeps falling down, it is called a 'downer'. It is legal (think government) to slaughter first and test later. The meat and meat-by-products can be marketed before the test results come in. The BSE infected cow that is the center of attention right now was a 'downer'. It's legal. See 1COR10:23
Thanks for inviting me to get it off my chest.
John
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
I'm not a vegetarian by any means, but I have to agree about paying attention and seeking out locally-produced animal products, including chicken, eggs, milk products, etc. The problem started, as usual, with government, and its empty and cynical promises to protect us from ourselves. When we ignore the responsibility to be aware of where our food comes from and how it is produced, when we allow "government inspectors" to tell us what's wholesome and "safe", then allow clowns and TV commercials tell us what to feed ourselves and our children, we deserve to be poisoned.
I haven't had a POS fast-food hamburger a long time, and right now, I wouldn't eat one of those goddam things at gunpoint.
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
Some great responses, thank you people for taking the time.
The following isn't intended to start an argument or anything, but doesn't ALOT of the beef used in fast food come from South America, or other places?
Maybe that's even worse.
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
Eating meat has so many negatives, it's a wonder that people still do. If they had any idea of the carelessness of the huge ( meat and dairy) industry that profits by killing animals for food...they would be disgusted. Do you really think butchering animals is a respectful, decent business. Would you personally take the life of an innocent living beast? If so, what else are you capable of...? You can't really be "pro life" if you eat meat, can ya.?
We can NOT be healthy (and moral) following the dictates of a profit motivated industry. Educate yourself.
Being a VEGETARIAN has always been a safe, clean and healthy way to live.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
One can argue the humane treatment of handling animals. One can argue the conditions, sanitary and otherwise of slaughterhouses. What one can't argue is the humanity or morals of those who work in the industry or who just eat meat.
Mr. Pickett, arguing a "pro-life" position on this is absurd.
For God sakes, "what else are you capable of..?" What is the foundation of such a statement. Jesus Christ couldn't pass your morals test.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
suprise!!!!! dave, J.C. was concerned with...people being crul to animals.....and from most that has been wrote about him, most feel that he was more ANTI MEAT EATING then most of his time. i think chris kristoferson summed it up in his song JESUS WAS A CAPRICORN.....goes like this: Jesus was a Capricorn He ate organic food He believed in love and peace And never wore no shoes
Long hair, beard and sandles And a funky bunch of friends Reckon we'd just nail him up If he came down again
Chorus: 'Cause everybody's gotta have somebody to look down on Who they can feel better than at any time they please Someone doin' somethin' dirty decent folks can frown on If you can't find nobody else, then help yourself to me
Eggheads cussing rednecks cussing Hippies for their hair Others laugh at straights who laugh at Freaks who laugh at squares
Some folks hate the Whites Who hate the Blacks who hate the Klan Most of us hate anything that We don't understand THINK THAT PRETTY WELL SUMS IT UP!!!!!!!...and i sorta know how he felt.........
[ December 29, 2003, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Oh my Gosh!!! How can you walk on the grass...killing and maiming and crushing the poor life out of that plant life.
And hacking and severing a living plant from it's root system, throwing it into a BOILING pot of water...yech, my stomach turns at the disgusting, murderous acts of the vegetarian.
And don't you dare swat that malaria carrying mosquitto about to bite you! That's one of God's living creatures too. Don't swat that fly that landed on your food either, and don't step on a spider or an ant. If you do, please turn yourself in to the nearest police station.
Just because a plant doesn't say "mooo" or "cluck-cluck" doesn't mean it isn't a living thing too.
We are part of the food chain....and when we die, as distasteful as it may seem...some worm is gonna creep into our casket and have his way with us as well.
Man is capable of doing anything and everything. Eating meat, hunting or the like doesn't make a person more predisposed to anything more carnal. That was just a rediculous statement.
I do agree that it is probably better to eat meat that was "range fed". That sounds healthy to me. Where do you get it?
Edit: Oh, and feel free to eat whatever you like. I personally like meat AND vegetables. Now that's an open mind.
[ December 29, 2003, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Stephen Faulkner (Member # 2511) on :
mmmmmmmmmm buffalo burgers!!!!!! who knew we had buffalo in MAINE???? ostrich, elk, emu, even beefalo. Some folks think we farm these exotic animals to protect the native animals, fact is they're all yummy! To each thier own in these matters, out of 6 kids 2 of my sibling are vegheads the rest of us make no fuss over it.... more for us!
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
steven you forgot MOOSE & BEAR!!! 2 of the nastiest tastin meat in the world, right up there with possum and ground hog!!!! the strangest thing....about the meat we eat...is that 98% of the meat consumed are GRAZERS.....or strickly VEGITARIANS!!!! the ones who eat cat, dog, possum are made fun of....and tell me what the differance is between your beloved CHICKEN and a VULTURE???? BESIDES SIZE?
Posted by Travis (Member # 4357) on :
If the bush administration would let the FDA do it's job and then some to check slaughter houses for infected animals we wouldn't have any problems. But when slaughter companies put money in pockets of our corporate government, the government only helps those slaughter companies out, not people like you and me. Political donations are like legalized bribery.
Travis
[ December 29, 2003, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: Travis ]
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
"We can NOT be healthy (and moral) following the dictates of a profit motivated industry. Educate yourself."
So I guess you just give all signwork you do away right...so as not to dirty yourself with evil profits and keep you 'moral'. Do you cut your grass or do you engage it thoughtfully in meaningful conversation in an attempt to understand it's motivations and feelings while you nuture it along it's lifes path before you convince it to quietly fold itself over and become height challenged so you don't have to hurt it?
Posted by Travis (Member # 4357) on :
I'm not against industrialization, it's what makes the world go round. It's when people take advantage of people for thier gain in a goverment position. The US goverment is made to protect and prosper the american people, NOT to lign the pockets of those that contribute large amounts of money to campaigns. Both the right and the left are guilty of it.
Nor am as simple as a piece of grass, but yet if a piece of grass was as complex as you, and you went to wack it with a weed wacker do you think it would fight back? or would it give into you and let you chop and hack away, till it had no job, no retirement, and no clean place to go?
We could go on and on about this, being a politcal debate but I'm sure the moderators here wouldn't like that heh, so I'll stop here, I felt I've said my piece.
Travis
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Heheheheheeeeeee.... why is it PITA and Veggans, love to harass and spit on lil ol'Ladies wearing fur.....BUT....look the other way, when Hells Angels, wearing leathers, go by?
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
As this post goes on & on, it becomes clearer that alotta people should eat meat...the extra iron and hemoglobin going upstairs can only help.
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
And the fight is on! Some things in life are black or white, but on some subjects, the truth lies closer to the middle. Man, I've seen enough violence to make me try and resolve issues with words, because one thing leads to another, most fights and wars start with some kind of idea, even if it's as base as greed. So keep it at the level of words and try not to let it escalate. Point is, if you're in a disagreement you ought to speak in a way that tries to win your opponent over to your side.Granted, I may not be the best at that, but at least I've got the concept.
It looks like this thread is heading towards mockery. Some more observations on the subject:
From a Christian perspective, eating meat is only a temporary thing. There was no death 'till sin entered the world, the work of Christ was to reconcile man to God, ultimately in an eternal walk with God, where again, there is no death.
I do raise and butcher my own meat. I do it in a precise manner, resulting in a bunch of little packages in the freezer. If we need more, open two. We eat alot of casseroles and the like, where the meat is used sparingly.
I think these "low carb" diets are unnatural. From what I understand the best meat raising ratio you can get is about 4 to 1 (not sure about chicken). That is, it takes 4 pounds of grain to grow 1 pound of animal. So now, people want to eat meat only, which takes so much resources to grow?
Some of our meals are meat free. What you need to watch for is complete protiens. I'll do whole wheat bread, (one source of amono acids), with peanut butter, (another), and milk, (another). Combining amino acids helps form complete protiens. Another example would be beans, cheese and whole grain.
Most plants probably aren't edible to humans, in the sense that we can't really digest them. Horses, goats, and cattle are very different from each other, but what they have in common is that they're "rumins" (sp??) That is, they have bacteria living in their digestive tracks that breaks down grasses and such that wouldn't benefit us. All animals will perish someday, if they're killed quickly and humanely, then they can allow us to utilize more resources for food.
I don't think it's so far fetched that killing animals would make it easier to kill people. I'm pretty sure I'm not the next serial killer, but don't the histories of alot of psychos reveal killing animals in childhood? I'm just trying to be moderate and "brutally honest" here. I consider it another grim reality to keep in check, after all I'm surrounded by other very dangerous things that I must be very SOBER about.
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