This is topic OT - Styx > Blue Collar Man Guitar Solo....... in forum Old Archives at The Letterville BullBoard.


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Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
 
Another one for the guitar pros...who might be into/remember the rock group "Styx" of the 70's and early 80's:

Although there is a lot that depends on talent, ability to pick up stuff, etc...how would you rate the difficulty level in trying to learn the solo portion of Blue Collar Man?

And do solos like this usually consist of single notes as opposed to chords? Or is this a combination of both?

Thanks!

By the way, I had my accoustic adjusted .... neck adjustment and had them "hone" the saddle a bit to get the strings to lay closer to the fingerboard. Seems to have made quite a difference.
 

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Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
 
Todd, my boy, your question is entirely subjective. The lead is contained within the chord structure, and a basic knowledge of that structure and its progressions is vital to playing a good lead.
You really need to know your fretboard to pull it off.
 

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Posted by Santo (Member # 411) on :
 
Yep, you got to put some time in on your scales to get your chops up, hoss!!!!
 

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Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
 
In electric rock guitar, where any distortion is involved, full chords are almost never used. Two or three notes of a chord at best, are strung together with single note runs.

I've never played that Stix song, but we are blessed to live in this age where we have guitar TAB sites. Here is one tab of the whole song: Blue Collar Man There are others I'm sure that would have the solo spelled out in detail.

Edit: Here is a link to a site with what looks like a huge compilation of TAB resources. Happy hunting.
www.top100tabs.com

[ December 23, 2003, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: Joe Rees ]
 

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Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
 
Funny you should mention that, Joe. Last time this came up with links to tab sites I had Latigo take a look.
He said "How the heck does anyone read that??"
When you read music as fluently as he does its easy to confuse him with simpler things.

heh..........
 

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Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
 
I kinda figured it was kinda subjective...ok then, what is the preferred method of figuring out the progressions? A book, a teacher, a recommended software package or all the above?

I'm really good at the "air guitar"...but for some reason, I do a lot of sweating but don't hear anything...

In addition to practicing, is there any one aspect of learning this instrument that can really help you make some significant progress?

Thanks guys...
 

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Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
 
A "hands on" teacher.
 

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Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
 
I've been a musician since I was ten. Took band in high school where I learned to read music, then applied that to playing the guitar, drums,trumpet, and piano. Learning to play a distinctive riff by someone is great practice on fingering and dexterity. It allows you to then go on and improvise your own riffs. I never had the left hand dexterity to really burn on a guitar, but had the right hand speed to do rides on the piano and organ. I would try and mimic every songs keyboard parts to the "T", and this proved invaluable in learning chord structures, progressions and improvising my own style of lead parts. I can also tell you this, most of the greatest musicians are ear trained. Meaning they dont read music at all, but learn by listening. Alot of studio work is done by the number system, where each chord in a progression is given a number on a chart which allows you to change keys if need be with no problems. This allows also for the musician to put his or her style into the song
and not being held to a note by note piece of music. I'm no expert, but after being in bands for over 25 years, I've learned some things. Most the hard way. Maybe one day we'll get to play some together Todd.

[ December 23, 2003, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: John Deaton III ]
 

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Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by pierre:
"How the heck does anyone read that??"

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For non-musical notation readers TABs are a Godsend. But they're useless without a reference piece of the same music to play along with so you can get all the timing right. When you can hear the riff, put you fingers where the TAB says to, then play along with it, it all makes sense.

Taking that a step further is this little site called Riff Interactive which adds animated fretboard highights and even some video. I've purchased their CDs before and it's the next closest thing to a hands on teacher.
 

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Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
 
WOW! I could spend some HOURS at that site!! Thanks!
I went to a few of the "links" . . . but did'nt see another particular item I've been lookin' for . . .
which is a poster that I saw somewhere, years ago . . .it was a blow up of the 6 string guitar entire fret board with all the notes labled. Seems like it was about 1'x4' or so . . . actually, I should be able to just make one . . . do any of ya'll read music or do you just play by ear?
I've always heard that if you can verbalize/sing a lead run you can play it 'cuz you can "hear" it as well. I think I could do it if I knew the individual notes, since I might know the rythm-chords of a song, but not always what notes make up the chord . . . what I'm sayin' is if I could memorize that whole neck, I could just be all over them individual notes, no? lol

AM I MAKIN" ANY SENSE???
When I mention this to my music playin' pals (we all play by ear) I always get a blank stare, so GO AHEAD....
 

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Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
 
I disagree, Johnathon. All of the auditions I had set for Latigo had a number of requiremnts prior to the audition. Bad animals, The Plant, the Record Factory, Rocktron in Chicago and Si Mitchell Productions in Northe Hollywood. (I'll tell you later today the story of his auditions)
He HAD to read fluently and be able to perform any music stylization requested by the director.
Only an established icon can walk into a studio without the ability to read music. Those are not true session musicians and are unusual.
I NEVER take in a session player for any of our customers if he can't read music. It simply takes too much time screwing around with the piece.
Play by ear or tab only?? Start a band or amaze your family and friends. Read music fluently?? You MIGHT have a shot as a session musician. Maybe.
 

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Posted by Santo (Member # 411) on :
 
I gotta agree, tabs are fine for the non-reader, both my son and myself use the technique, but my older son reads due to his saxaphone training. He can move to the piano, with no piano training, and sit down learn a song much quicker than either of us can on the guitar.
My brother plays guitar, trumpet, and piano and has a masters degree in Choral Music and taught music. He claims it is a waste of time to learn tab over reading music.
Edit:
I love the full sound of the full major chords on guitar. You see most rock lead guitarist don't use enough chords for me. I like the Dickie Betts, Dire Straits type guys, who know the value of a Rythmn Guitar.

[ December 24, 2003, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Santo ]
 

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Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
 
Jawohl, Santo!!
All 3 of Lat's teachers right up to and including Jazz Theory insisted that he be an extremely cpmpetent rythm guitarist before moving on to anything else.
There's a distinct difference between a guitar player and a guitarist.
 

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Posted by Santo (Member # 411) on :
 
Pierre,
My unofficial hands on teacher was a wacked out Beatle freak named Artie "Da Bone" Breslin. He didn't play a 2 x 4 with strings like most pickers. He bought a 1964 top of the line Epiphone hollowbody new and sent it off to be completely rebuilt up to the sweetest six sting I ever held. It's retired now, and he need the money, but he won't even sell to me, his lifelong podner. Damn.
When I picked up my guitar in 1980, Bone had me play chords all the time and he would play a 101 songs to the 1-4-5 I played. Kick Ass, right. He knew all the Chink-a-Chink and bar chord slide riffs that make the Ole Soul Music sound like it do. Since we were both raised on New Orleans R&B that's all I wanted to play anyhow.
 

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Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
 
That may be Pierre, but I have several friends who are session musicians over in virginia and tennessee, and none of them fluently read music, but can play the number system which is used predominantly in country music. Quite a few of the top session players are not trained in reading music. Being able to do both, sight read and play by ear, is extremely helpful in being a full time musician. ALot of times sight readers are great musicians, but lack that spontanaiety that gives them their style. Although myself, I am glad I learned to read music, I still prefer learning by ear and using improvisation to come up with my own licks and riffs.
 

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Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
 
A handfull out of thousands?
Those are exceptions, John.
Anyway........... Merry Christmas to you. I'll send it to you in tab.
heh............

Whoops! I just noticed yopu said "top session players". Having said THAT......... I require names. I happen to have the national studio register for demand session players.

[ December 24, 2003, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: pierre ]
 

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Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
 
Only thing Im trying to say is that reading music is not a have to to become a top musician. Understanding chord structures, progressions, and having a feel for what you are doing are.
Some names that come to mind, Keith Urban, who was a self taught top session player before becoming an artist, and Dean Parks, Jerry Douglas, Stuart Duncan,Matt Rollings, just to name a few.
I have a friend here locally who toured with Johnny Russell and played behind many country stars without knowing how to read, and also Jeff Branim, who toured with and did session work for Aaron Tippin and Bill Anderson.
 

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Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
 
Merry Christmas, John.

Pierre
 

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Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Sheila Ferrell:
a blow up of the 6 string guitar entire fret board with all the notes labled.

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