Based in part on advice from this board, I started charging a "sketch" deposit of $200 for all exterior sign proposals.
Based on the accepted design, I then prepare a production cost estimate.
The $200 qualifies the customer and pas for a few hours of design, but it's not enough to replace a 50% deposit on the sign.
Do those of you who get a design deposit then ask for a second deposit to cover production?
Do you apply the $200 to a sign price that includes the design fee or run it as a separate transaction.
Any other "procedural" advice?
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
When I can't ask for a 50% dep. on sign production due to the fact that the details of production don't exist yet, then I settle for somethind arbitrary like your $200. If I feel that I can quickly narrow down what the job is to be, then once that is done, & the price is agreed upon, I will ask for additional funds up to the 50% mark. (This would usually have been discussed up front as my policy)
If the amount of design work seems to be more then I would want to consider "built-in" to the cost of the sign, then I run it as a seperate transaction, collect the balance on the design work after completion of that phase, & then begin the production phase with a 50% dep to cover that job.
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
That depends, is it going out to bid? If it is, get paid for the design part and bid on it, if you are building it, ask for a deposit to build the sign, design is a seperate fee/deposit.
What I do is this: Design is a fee, I get paid for it regardless if the sign gets built or not, or I may refund a portion if they hate the initial concepts (I have a killl fee so they would probably not get all hhe money back) The sign is a seperate issue, get your deposit, and if you are inclined discount the sign IF you made decent money on the design.
[ December 23, 2003, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: Rick Chavez ]
Posted by Joe Endicott (Member # 628) on :
Generally, if we get a design deposit, and the job is a "go", we will then get a production deposit (50% of the remainder of the job) before we begin building.
Posted by Peter Schuttinga (Member # 2821) on :
Most of the signs I've produced I've never bothered with until a project a few months ago. Once I discussed the requirements with the customer I came to Letterville for advice, and very thankful for the advice I found and received. From the initial meeting I gathered that design approval would be made by more than one person, and the cost would be borne by two distinct businesses, although my contact would be with the primary business partners. I drafted up a contract that stipulated a design fee ($300), to be paid on acceptance of the design, prior to them receiving construction detail drawings necessary for the permit application. In addition I also gave them a list of options for the signage. This also stipulated that there is a deposit (50%) before sign fabrication can commence. I'm glad I went this way because it did take some time from start to finish for them to make decisions along the way, and yes, they went for option B. Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
You are performing two discrete tasks - designing a logo and/or a sign, and producing a sign from that design. So why would this be billed as the same thing? We charge $250 as a sketch fee to cover our time for designing - that amount is paid in advance, and does NOT include a transfer of copyright to the client. What a client gets is a concept sketch, specifications of materials and techniques, and a firm price on producing their sign. A client who wants to purchase a design only will be charged accordingly.
A potential customer who balks at an initial sketch fee is waving a BIG red flag, especially on a large job - serious clients understand the concept of being compensated for time and effort, and are less likely to demand something for nothing. As to whether the design fee becomes a part of the final design price, that depends on the size of the job and the attitude of the client. Some accept the $250 as a separate issue without question, some ask if it is "deducted", and if it's a deal-breaker on a big project, I'll do so; usually though, if it's going to be an issue, it comes up in the beginning of the process, not later.
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
quote:Originally posted by Paul Luszcz: Any other "procedural" advice?
You seem to be off on the right foot. The hardest step is opening your mouth to inform them of the art charge being a separate up-front fee. Once those words are out of your mouth there's no telling how they'll react to it.
My proceedure is to always talk to them about the overall scope of the job and their BUDGET first. If it's a multi-thousand dollar job, you are going to earn every bit of a $250 design retainer and then some, before a finished design is approved. What they are really doing is pre-paying you for a few hours of time. If you're lucky, and get approval early in the process, you could credit any remainder of the fee toward the production deposit. More than likely you will go far past the $250 mark and be faced with informing them their money is used up and they're now on the clock.
Recently I was looking through some old bids that we didn't get. Every one had evolved from me taking the initiative to blurt out some concepts before a fee had been charged. It's so easy to get sidetracked with showing them a little more and a little more, till you've got some real time invested in it - then you're in trouble. I do not know of a single job where we collected a design fee that we did not get the job. It turns them from a shopper into a buyer.
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