Have a business in my city that has got alot of $$$ and that I have been trying to get in with for a bit now. Last week they called me to bid on a job. When I got there, they said they needed a double faced 8x16 sign replaced as well as a 40' canopy and to go down the block to their new lot and job check it. She also gave me the other sign guys quote! Along with everything he plans to do and materials involved. She added that they been dealing with him for years. When I got to the site, I realized that the Flex faces have already been removed by the other shop (as it was stated on his quote) and the canopy is in his possession too. This size of job could be (or couldn't be) a little out of my league but without anything to job check from besides teh other guys quote..I feel that I can't go any further. Another part of me feels that she is feeling out the other guy and that his price may seem too high so she is "USING ME" to verify his price. IN A PROFESSIONAL WAY, how would you write up a letter stating 'THANKS FOR THE OPPORTUNITY BUT......? Posted by Steve Barba (Member # 431) on :
Underbid the hell outta the job- and then tell her you are too busy to do it. That will keep her guessing.
"proffesional"? Thats a laugh. It seems that everyone does not play by the same rules.
I would just be honest with her about your suspitions. I mean, why would she need a quote from you, if the other shop already has the pieces? What, are you going to bid lower, and then walk into the other shop and get the stuff? I would call her little game, no hesitations.
Posted by FranCisco Vargas (Member # 145) on :
You're just setting yourself up to play free yo-yo. If the other sign co has the canopy and took down the faces they have the job. Nobody pulls down two 8x16 faces for free and a 40' canopy. Just tell her Merry Christmas and have a great year.
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
My first thought is RUN!
Actually Corey, there could be reasons for things to be in the state they are (like maybe the other sign co is incredibly backed up and cannot perform, or they pulled it by accident before getting the final approval). I would definitely ask the client for an explanation and have a frank discussion about not wanting to get in the middle of a dispute between them and their vendor. You might find the other sign co would welcome you taking them off their hands.
Posted by Corey Wine (Member # 1640) on :
Good Advice as per usual here. Truth be told, I am friggin busy right now with many 1000$ jobs and not really willing to take on a 10,000$ job especially with my mentioned variables (other shop has faces etc.). I am just really pleased and surprised that I got a call from this particular business (did I mention they have $$$). Just because they have a job in the making right now and it is something I have done for previous employers before and the money is there doesn't mean it'll be gravy. One of my last employers taught me what alot of us sign guys never learn...the ability to say NO to a potential client. Although this job is not appealing to me with it's variables and the time frame is not there to pull such a job off with my company, I want to assure her that I am the local guy (the other guy isn't) and every business also has to purchase the smaller signage sooner or later as well (and more often) than the bigger signage. Basically, I want to leave the door open for future work and not burn a bridge with a "staple business" in our community. Just not sure how to approach her without her feeling let down.
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
"Just not sure how to approach her without her feeling let down."
Get real!
purchasing Agents have ethics two steps below Ambulance Chasing lawyers!
She's using you to bludgeon the other shop...and if you ever get a job from her, expect the same!
Just tell her that it looks like the other shop has already started, and next time she should call you sooner!
Heed your previous emplyers advice...learn to say NO!
Just my humble opinion!
[ December 18, 2003, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
Posted by Jane Diaz (Member # 595) on :
My thought would be to call the client and be extremely honest and friendly. Tell them you would really like to do work for them in the future but you feel this job is already taken, as evidence of the missing faces and awnings. "If there is a problem with the other sign company and they can not get to the work in a timely manner, or don't want to do the work, they wouldn't have taken it to their shop, right, Mrs. Smith?" This sets yourself up for a good relationship with her but also shows her that you are ethical and don't want to hurt your fellow sign shop. It also leave the door open for HER to approach the other sign shop and see if, indeed, they DO want to do her work. Maybe they ARE looking for an opportunity to get out of it, but that should come from her, not you, I think. Put the ball back in court and see how she handles it. It also tells her you don't want to get in the middle of this situation and gets you out of the bidding war, if that's what it is. Just my thoughts...
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
Yeah, she is using you. (Red flags) This client may have some bucks, but they are probably corrupt.
Why not call or better drop by the other shop and discuss this great "client". There is something fishy going on, and your sign "brother" may have some tidbits of info you may NEED to learn about this "good /moneyed" client. And you may even make a new sign friend along the way. Be ethical first.
If you must bid. I'd say go WAY-WAY over the other shops bid. (But only after you talk to them about it).
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Corey,
Although the customer has money, I think I can see why they do...playing both side of the fence can do that for a business in a case like this.
With all the grey area in the details on this job, I'd remember that the $1000 jobs are in hand. Maybe you don't really need this new customer at all.
If you still want to quote it, just go with the other guy's quote, less the removal of the Flex and canopy since it's already gone. That puts the customer right back to square one, and might intice them to be a little more honest and truthful.
Give them a "6 of one, half dozen of the other" deal". If they don't bite, keep casting...there's plenty of other fish in the sea.
Just a thought... Rapid
Posted by Jack Leyden (Member # 2437) on :
Hi Corey-
Congratulations! You've been marketing to them for awhile, and now they've invited you to bid on a project. Sounds to me as if they genuinely would like to give you the opportunity to do some of their sign work.
I think that you're uneasy for two reasons: 1)the specifications are too vague; and 2) sharing the competitor's quote with you feels a little unethical.
Probably the two things are connected. Rather than spending a great deal of her company's time writing a RFP especially for you, she assumed that you could figure out the specifications from the other guy's quote. She's wrong, of course. Maybe get an appointment with her, ask her to clarify the items that are vague to you, and perhaps tactfully dissuade her from sharing competitive quotes in the future.
If this job is more than you want to take on right now, there's nothing wrong with telling her that. She might take that answer as an incentive to invite you into the bidding process at an earlier date next time.
Good Luck!
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Hi Corey. I really don't see whay you want to kiss this lady's butt for future signs. She will more than likely do the same thing to you that she is doing to the company that has her faces & awning. Money ain't everything, honey, and in my experience it is the big $$ clients who will try to screw you out of yours every time. Not that you have to be rude to her, that is never good to do. I would simply say something like, "Mrs. WarBucks, when stopping by to take measurements to do your proposal, I noticed that the faces and awning are missing. I assume that they are with the shop whose bid you showed me. I do not understand why you need me to give you an estimate for work that is already in progress by a fellow sign company. Pehaps you can clarify this for me?" And then watch her backpeddle. I would never want to work for this woman no matter how much $$ she has. Good luck. Love- JILL Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
Simple, take the other guy's quote, add about $1000 to it, then tell the client you don't see how in the world the other guy can do this type of job that cheap! You can keep your ethics, the other shop won't get screwed and the customer thinks they are getting a bargain! If you charge for the estimate, everybody wins! Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
Fair warning here...If you give her any kind of bid low or high you'll be making a mistake and it will come back to bite you.
Sssimply tell her since another shop has already begun you don't wish to get involved at this level. Thank her for calling you and make her aware you're interested in doing work for her in the future...if there is no "future" she's told you all you want to know.
Better that way than undercutting the other guy and by some turn of events you get the job then have to wrestle it free from the competition...(losing proposition at best)or worse yet bid it high and run her off for good.
The onlly way you can win this is stay on good terms with everyone involved...and save your self the stress and embarassment.
Posted by Corey Wine (Member # 1640) on :
Great advice! Monty, you nailed it! I was expecting to see her this morning at 9am however, leaving the supermarket yesterday after buying film for an install, I ran into her going in to the store. She jokingly asked if I had her quote and that's when I said almost the same exact thing that Monty had said. "Actually, I planned to let you know that I was going to surrender the job do to time frame as I am busy as hell and the fact that the other sign co. has already made off with the faces deeming it very hard for me to quote the job." She mentioned that the owner is bigtime ****ed at the other co. for assuming it was their job. I thanks her for the opportunity and mentioned I had hoped that I could be included in future projects and wished her a Happy Holiday Season. She thanked me and said that she sees me everywhere (well, my bitchen truck) and that she sees me when we both pick our kids up from school and we left each other happy and friendly.
Once again, thank you Letter/vinylheads for the advice.
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