After almost 10 years using and promoting products by Flexisign, I'm/we're done with that program. Too many inherent flaws and big $'s were paid for the program. And now, Amiablescanvec, wants more $'s for features they have alledgedly fixed in version 7.0 which were supposed working in the first place in earlier versions. And as for technical support-- well ask most users... it's terrible. And did you hear the one about the the fellow using Enroute whose router driver wouldn't work, so he contacted the company...purchased a seperate, new driver at over $100 and when it didn't work-- the company wouldn't refund his money? So much for the truth-- Sure Flexisign does certain things nicely, but try getting their support on Casmate. Wasn't that program expensive...as I recall?
Done. Period!
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
I am a Flexi owner, but learned not long after that I way over-bought, (I also have Gerber GA, that was given to me) I encourage anyone getting into this business to use Illustrator or Corel, and a lower price plug-in to cut their graphics. Flexi has great production features, and the envelopes and effects are great, but with over 6000.00 invested in that program already, with the initail purchase and upgrades the cost has yet to justify those minor features, especially when Corel and Illustrator can do it, with a little more work. You are not alone in this realization, with so many lower cost software those overpriced solutions are starting to lose thier favor with a lot of older sign guys.
Rick
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
your right rick. only some learn this to late and with $4-6000 in a sign program you EXPECT more then a half working program and none helpful tech support. i started into the vinyl stuff in 93 was computer savvy enough to KNOW that with a cutter that would communicate HPGL, you can cut from any decent vector/cad program. i got a roland plotter(still use it) and i had corel 4 and was cutting vinyl. also I cut from ILLISTRATOR, ARTS & LETTERS 5.0, MACROMEDIA 4.0. when i bought the plotter the guy had LETTER ART 6.0, dos based sign program. this is another program i put right DOWN there with gerber GA 6.0. and i say this because i was corel trained...and GA to me was so redundant and restricting of movement it frustrated me the time i had to play with it. ive been cuttin vinyl since 93 and corel has served my needs.
[ November 30, 2003, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Fran Maholland (Member # 3609) on :
Our boys yonder and over-sees wrote concerning Flexi.
"You are not alone in this realization, with so many lower cost softwares...those overpriced solutions are starting to lose thier favor with a lot of older sign guys."
Yes, well, it's time the manufacturer PAID the price for our hard investments. They should, at very least, provide the updated, repaired program at no cost to thier users to keep the faith. But word has it that Flexisign is dying-- no lie..in the midst of my anger and frustration I called some guru's and they all concur-- Flexi's demise is on the horizon... and, unfortunately, all those who invested in it... at least on the sofware plank.
Walking the...plank... thank god, or buddha or whomever for lifepreservers like corel.
Spread the word, so that people don't perish (especially new and younger sign makers) in TITANIC proportions, will ya? Write to:
tell them what you think and that we're not going to take their dunkin' donut solutions anymore!
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I've wasted my share of time being ****ed off at them for dropping support for casmate, but I still use the program with little or no need for support other them the occassional wish for a developing compatability with newer OS's etc.
As for Flexi... I think your info or speculation is out of line on your "demise" rumor. They are working hard to make it an alternative to Gerber for running the Edge (which is an excellent idea, since Gerber software is weak, & a huge base of edge owners & future edge owners are already Flexi users &/or fans) IMO, Flexi is here to stay, at least for the foreseeable future, if they are spending the energy to develop that new market.
Also, I'm not sure what all this talk about charging for Flexi 7 fixes is about... I just got my copy of Flexi 7.5 for free Posted by Fran Maholland (Member # 3609) on :
Doug wrote:
"As for Flexi... I think your info or speculation is out of line on your "demise" rumor...IMO, Flexi is here to stay, at least for the foreseeable future, if they are spending the energy to develop that new market.
Also, I'm not sure what all this talk about charging for Flexi 7 fixes is about... I just got my copy of Flexi 7.5 for free"
Let me put it this way, Doug, I spoke to more than half a dozen old and former users. Verdict: They've had it with Flexi too. That tells me there's a wounded animal afoot. If you ask me, they're killing their market and loosing business from all the bad publicity...and believe me, the word spreads like wildfire. I am/was a user and 3rd party reseller for Flexi and also supported, technically speaking, their product(s) for other users and those to whom I sold it. I recently I discovered new (and old)flas in the program, particularly in the relam of import and export filter/ utilities. I subsequently discovered that there are some 25 documented and readily available issues that AmiableScanvex has, again, now "alledgedly" repaired to earlier versions. I was at 6.5 v 3. After there was 6.6 according to the regional sales rep...and then the jump to 7.0. I called for the update and they wanted $650 to repair with the latest version what should have been working in earlier versions. Each time I updated previously, Amiablescanvex swore my problems were solved. NOT! I should not have to pay one dime to fix that which I paid for AND supported.
I can not with any conscience continue with a company and product who does not subscribe to the philosophy of the customer is "usually" right. A penny for my thoughts? Well, they wanted $650 without avaible fixes for earlier versions.
Bye,bye, Flexi, goodbye...you've left this proggie awry!
Defend Flexi as you will, but look at the fundemental principal here...AND... their inept and failing marketing strategy for existing users. Sometimes it's worth a few buck to get rid of a problem. Anyone ever owe you (rhetorically speaking)money? Investing and supporting this product was a gross mistake. We live and learn.
Posted by John Hugentober (Member # 3316) on :
Fran,
Just curious, but what software will you go to? Is there some other software that is free of the problems that you are having with Flexi?
Thanks,
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
I left Flexi with version 5.8 in 2000. When I had to wait 8 days for tech support,I was livid. Today, if I have to wait 8 minutes for Omega support, that is unusual.
Allegedly, it is better today than before. But, with Fred's post, I have my doubts. You have to decide when enough is enough, cut your losses, and buy somthing that fits your needs.
Let me reccomend Gerber Omega. I am a believer. I would also reccomend some other design software to compliment it such as Adobe 10
Posted by William DeBekker (Member # 3848) on :
I know how you feel.. I am a Die Hard Signlab user. They did offer good support until I had a problem with some PS fonts.. They called me back and all they said is I have to buy a Maitence Agreement. Or Upgrade to E6 So after that comment they lost another Customer..I will alway use Signlab as I know it like the back of my Hand.But will never UPGRADE Been using it since version 3 or 4 when it came on 16 Floppies. So when I need to use the certian fonts(Propriety Park Service Fonts) I'll just type them into Corel and export.. OH well.. I agree that alot of the Sign Programs will being going by the way side when they can't compete with Corel(And I hate to say that cause I cant stand COREL)(Lack of knowlede of the program))
Posted by Robert Larkham (Member # 2913) on :
I have been running Flexi 5.7 for about eight years now. NEVER had any problems. I also run Vinyl Master Pro which Shaun has been outstanding with Tech Support. And at $500 for VMP I think it is the best deal going.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
OK, Fran I see my misunderstanding now...
quote: And now, Amiablescanvec, wants more $'s for features they have alledgedly fixed in version 7.0
I thought that sentence meant fixes for problems in 7.0, so I had wondered if some unscrupulous distributor was charging you for 7.5
& I guess predicting their demise was not intended to mean they were going to voluntarily abandon the software like they did with casmate... but you are referring them being bankrupted by the word of half a dozen users spreading bad publicity like wildfire...now I understand your post.
(I'm selling my stock )
Posted by Fran Maholland (Member # 3609) on :
I do nearly all my designing in Corel... Edge stuff too. Flexi is slow, backwards and awkward up to 6.5. Believe me, I have mucho software, 3D and all. Pretty sad when you can't export things like AI's and EPS's out of Flexi and then re-import them. I merely want what I paid for. Flexi can't comply, so goodbye...like many, many others are doing...and the export/import anomalies only scratch the surface. I will deny Flexi henceforth with tenacity. The updates qualify for bait and switches. If your a Patriot... spread the word... "the Flexicoats are going!"
It's an expensive, imperfect product.
Posted by Fran Maholland (Member # 3609) on :
Doug Wrote:
"...I guess predicting their demise was not intended to mean they were going to voluntarily abandon the software like they did with casmate... but you are referring them being bankrupted by the word of half a dozen users spreading bad publicity like wildfire...now I understand your post."
No, Doug, it's Flexi (Amiable) who's doing all the work in that department. It's just that those I spoke to, veteran sign guru's, who concur with the trend. I've earned money with Flexi, but all tolled, it's a rip (they have or had a good 'RIP' BTW). May they R.I.P.
It's like an expensive suit that you later discover that the the zipper and buttons were left off... and you're left hanging with your willy out in the cold... A chilly willy in December. Want to warm up? "$650 Please." No thanks, this frigid midget is taking his rigid digit elsewhere! See you Antartica, Amiable. Maybe we should pickit the sign show in AC next week...LOL... in full Patriot attire... Flexi colors BTW.
Posted by Glenn S. Harris (Member # 2190) on :
Once any sign designer becomes familiar enough with any professional vector illustration software (Corel Draw, Illustrator, Freehand), he/she will see the major sign programs for what they are: a rip-off. These programs are designed to wring money from you and nothing more. Gerber seems to be the only one with a real handle on it. Only because of their excellent support and staying power, not because the software is all that great. It works well for running machines, not designing signs. You need design software to design with and a simple program to run your machines whatever they might be.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I know I'm in the minority when I can point to my good fortune in aquiring Casmate in 1997 at no charge. I did pay about $500 for an upgrade to the last version released, but at that price it is comparable to Illustrator in cost, but still very valuable due not only to the device drivers but many many features geared twards sign making that, even with illustrator 10, makes it the program of choice for me in several aspects of the sign design. I use Illustrator even more then casmate, but for what I paid it Casmate has earned it's keep countless times.
I did pay $1100 for Flexi 7.0 (which is again, less then others have spent... but still a good chunk) I don't even use it yet... but I have my 7.5 upgrade & am learning about it's edge compatible features. That, along with it's XP compability, & Casmate file compatibility make it a worthwhile investment for me. I haven't bothered to learn much about designing in Omega since it is not neccessary for me, & like Glen said, not very effective for a design program by most accounts anyway. As for Gerber support... I can only assume Glen & Rick are getting their support from a distributor. I have never encountered much reason for praise of support direct from Gerber, nor have I heard others make this claim.
More power to the plug-in/bridge program people. But there are so many satisfied sign program users, the nay-sayers would have others think we all keep quiet due to shame in being taken to the cleaners. Give me a break! Plenty of people whine about being a victim of this or that, but maybe satisfied users are too busy making money to stop & sing the praises of every piece of the puzzle that IS working.
I can't fathom someone with years of knowledge & ownership of a program that wouldn't go & letter a $650 van in an afternoon to pay for the new improvements to something that has already been making them money without the current fixes/improvements.
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
I can't see Flexi's demise anytime soon, especially since they took 1/4 of the competition away by deleting Cas-Mate. I think a production shop can use Flexi's prodution tools and be very succesful with it, but a one man sign shop? I think Flexi strong point is production,it does it very well, but like many of you I don't need that speed and production. As far as Gerber, it's still the clunky program I have always known it to be. But since it drives the Edge better than the others, Gerber has made it very diffucult to get rid of it. I never thought I would say this, but I applaud Gerber for getting into the Mac market with their Illustrator plug-in. Anybody using Cas-Mate and Arts & Letters are already facing extinction when thier dongle fails, relying on Flexi, Gerber, Signlab or the others are asking for trouble if you are DESIGNING with thier software, maybe not now, but down the road. A smart sign shop will always keep an .eps file on hand just in case, if you design in sign software, but as long as production shops are arond, there will always be the high-end software.
Rick
Posted by Mark Sheflo (Member # 3608) on :
I've been using Casmate since it was a DOS program (Ver. 3.0?). We do look at Flexi every now and again as the next step, but one look at the cost and we never bite. Been using Corel since Version 8, now using 10 along with it. About half the time I end up doing some work in both programs for one job, just how it works sometimes. One program is better at some things than another, just a fact of life. Do I worry about Casmate's dongle crapping out on me? Just a little....make friends with your local computer tech beforehand and get a software fix for the dongle. It is possible to do, don't ask me how, but I have seen it in action.
Are all the "high end" sign programs overpriced? Yes. But look at it from a business perspective, how many copies can they resonalbly expect to sell to earn back their investment? Corel sells 10K plus copies, Flexi sells how many?
Just my thoughts.
Mark
Posted by david drane (Member # 507) on :
Fran, Please do youself a favour as Robert says and give Vinyl Master Pro a tryout. It will cost you nothing for a demo version and I promise you it has an awful lot to offer. I, myself use Signlab, but I do a lot in VMP as well. Please, just check it out!! web page Posted by John Martin Robson (Member # 1686) on :
You call up the Russians, wire em a little money, a little package comes in the mail. CASmate & XP are happy..........ya put a bullet in the dongle and screw the Mafiaosa. Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
...or pay these guys $250, & keep the dongle in the desk drawer.
Posted by BrianTheBrush (Member # 1298) on :
For what it's worth...
Been using SignLab since it was a DOS program. Still Using it.
I don't buy into the "buy the cheaper software" theory. Sure, you can build a house with a tackhammer, but it's gonna be a drag.
It's at least looking at before you purchase any signmaking program.
Brian
Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
VMP is the way to go, at least in my opinion, for any sign shop. Every program has its little quirks and problems, but for $499, I wouldnt even think of using anything else. This program has all the features of the big shots, and then some. It may have a cheaper price, but the features and quality arent cheap.
Posted by Fran Maholland (Member # 3609) on :
Funny, the "Russians" contacted me today... said they could help me for a mere, yes, 250 of our rupples. I denied them, tho, since I'm 'Done with Flexi'. I was simply used to using it, but when it came down to using some of it's deeper features...it failed me. So fail is as fail does... Oh, Flexi 'll be around alright...so long as there are naive, unsuspecting consumers to cough up a buck. And, yes, right-- it is a little odd that a long time user/promoter of their product would be charged such an outlandish sum for an upgrade aimed to fix problems of earlier versions. Is this the new American way? If so, we had all better get wise or hold up our britches with more than suspenders... shoulder stakes anyone?
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
It appears that many of our programs are actually a collection of modules built by other companies.
I own a database program that has a few quirks. I was promised many times yes the next version will fix them. And the next, and the next and so on.
Finally I came across a program that had all the fixes. (later applied and sold as a new verion of my database program). It was the essentially the same program but with a different opening page. Hmm.
Just as I suspected. It, like so many other programs is a collection of modules, filters, and DLL's written by others. Consequently, the vendor has to wait until his supplier / writer gets around to fixing the bugs "quirks". I would guess flexi is the same.
Posted by Rodney gold (Member # 4065) on :
I must just say , if someone had to broadcast on a popular board relevant to my business that I was going bankrupt when I wasn't , it could get very ugly as I would really go after the person that tried to make it come true. (Not that I could care about the specific program , I have never used it)
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
i use corel draw, illustraotr and cocut.
corel 9 ws about 20 bux, corel 11 was about 110 bux. I illustrator 9 was about 130 bux used. Cocut was about 100 bux used.
I now have all the vinyl cutting software i need. With this combo I can do anything that i need. I hav never had work back up because of a slow system. I actually have three sign cutting solutions.
From cuitting masks thru vinyl. All for less than $500 bux. Send me an AI file or a corel file no matter. No hassles with very expensive upgrades either. No need to worry about OS systems going out of date. nutin to it..
Posted by Fran Maholland (Member # 3609) on :
Hey, Rodney, no one suggested that Amiable/Flexi was going bankrupt (literally)-- those where someone else's recapitulation of my apprasisal, based on talking with others that, in effect, Flexi's policies (and heart) were, if I were to use another's words-- are already bankrupt, so to speak, from robbing their faithful customers of what they paid for. No one's spreading any rumours... and if they are, Flexi's orchestrating it with their policies. Using the analogy: You go to the bank, make your deposits, invest, etc. then go to make a withdrawl and your account's been frozen. Now what's going on precisely? Only time will tell. I'm an unsatisfied customer like so many other's I've spoken to and/or that have e-mailed me. Your best friend wrongs you and do you go back running for hugs and kisses? No, especially when you discover that she's been cheating on you the whole time... I mean-- to use another's words-- with "modules" and "filters" that you paid for and don't work. Time to find a new lover and friend. And, yes, I'm familiar with all the combo proggies and do much of that here to...but thanks for the reminder guys. Flexi was part of the combo too and failed me. Time to drop it. As a courtesy to other veteran or up and coming signmakers, I've voiced my disatisfaction and will continue to do so until the AmiescanVEX/Flexi people wake up. I'm just Paul Revere making his ride. Or to paraphrase another Patriot-- Give me Liberty or give me a sign program that works! Earlier versions of Flexi do not-- or only marginally. Versions 5.7 and 5.8 seemed fairly stable...but since then up to 6.6 the horse was out of the stable. Now with 7.0 and up are we to believe that the steed is track worthy. Place your bets at $650 a pop (for existing users). They're/ we're off and running...'cept I'm running away this time; that is, from Flexi. Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Yeah, sorry Rodney, my bad... I read this:
quote: But word has it that Flexisign is dying-- no lie..in the midst of my anger and frustration I called some guru's and they all concur-- Flexi's demise is on the horizon...
& never realized the "demise" Fran was refering to was the consequence of losing him & his 6 buddies continued support.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
theres a lot more than just that six doug..
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
One of our hopes for Letterville was to see it used to put a face on our Merchants. In many cases, our vendors, especially the large corporate variety, often appear to be managed by machines, instead of real people. It's very frustrating for those of us that deal with them.
Flexi has not been a Merchant here in Letterville for sometime, but Barb sent a couple of our old contacts there a notification of this post, along with an invitation to respond. Some companies change spokespeople more often than socks, but maybe this time will be different. It would be wonderful to learn the facts from an actual company rep instead of relying on second hand info that can often be wrong.
Ever ask a question in this Forum about Rapid Tac, Summa, Graphtec, VinylMaster Pro, Avery, Estimate, LazerLines, Letterhead's Sign Supply, SignGold or one of the many other Letterville Merchants that actually understand how Letterville works? In most cases, you will get a response to your questions from a real person you have grown to consider a friend and neighbor. There have been times when some of us have been less than kind to our Merchants. Over the years, most have grown to accept and learn from our comments on their products. It's really not all that different from a live trade show.
[ December 02, 2003, 01:40 AM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
Posted by Fran Maholland (Member # 3609) on :
Doug, my surmise of the "demise", on an educated guess, is that this is just the tip of the iceberg; that is, from my experience and what I'm hearing in the chatter box. Bottom line is-- if Amiable continues to treat their customers as they did me (and others, I understand) well, logically, does one really think they'll weather the storm?
Look around you-- Casmate: vacaant lot/abandoned, jogging without jock. Businesses changing names, mergers, closures and extinctions.
The best business people I know, despite the economic and business climate, are still in business because they listen, treat customers right and with respect.
I can name a dozen of them local to me who appreciate the business people bring to them, trade-wise or otherwise. Those of the philosophy: "We don't need you...you need us...pay the price twice" are holding on way too tight and falling faster than soldiers in the civil war. That's the reality.
I, myself, am in business after 15 years for these reasons: Courteous, friendly and reliable service, decent and affordable product. Maybe some talent too. Anyone can go anywhere for what I/we do...more than just signs, for we offer many dimesnions to the sign and display industry under one roof.
If someone's wrong about something, I'll be discrete about telling them as I would expect them to be candid and forthright with me.
I approached Amiable with logic and sensibility. They denied me for a buck.
I declined and felt obliged to share my experience and what I'm hearing in the pipeline...not just from "six" but from the horse's mouth-- in the cryptic messages,horse hoofs and signals that Amiable, themselves, are sending people and I don't even think they understand the ramifications ...YET. The solution was easy and simple, YET, they would not oblige. Had they done so, I would have gone to bat for them instead of whining about being had all these many years.
I'm just getting warmed up.
Kind regards, tho, to all and thanks for all the honest responses. I like to hear and ponder all points of view. And please do let me know where I'm wrong or have overstepped freedom's boundaries. I spred no rumours, plan no spam, etc. I'm merely telling it like it is...or was. Call it honest or call it disgruntled. That's rock and roll.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Fran, you have made some good points about some of the customer service related reasons for your business's success, as well as the business practices Scanvec Amiable has been guilty of that have alienated you from among their customer base.
As mentioned in my first post I have had good reason to be disillusioned with that company in the past. At this point I find it a waste of my energy to hold that grudge against them, but understand others justifiable need to cut their losses.
Steve makes some excellent points about vendors opportunity to participate in this forum, even as non-merchants. It appears that Scanvec Amiable does not participate here for whatever reason.
If it is of interest to anyone, they have been making appearances elsewhere & providing much up to date information, both about their products specifically, about how their products work with other facets of the sign industry, & about how they are being developed to continue to do so in increasingly valuable ways.
Just in the last week this post was started by Jim Kielt, the Regional Sales Manager of Scanvec Amiable, & includes a reply from Judy Heft, the PhotoPRINT Product Marketing Manager for Scanvec Amiable.
I think my sparring habits here are often driven by some perception I have that a discussion is leaning away from equanimity, & in my own imagination, a balance can be achieved through my dissent. I need to give it a rest.
I commend Fran for the civilty in all his posts.
Posted by Fran Maholland (Member # 3609) on :
Thanks, Doug.
There's a time and a place for everything.
Often the middle-of-the-road, safeline posture is a good stance and I, all too often, find myself there--neutral, facilitating a peace as best I can... thus, appear your honest and enduring efforts around this subject.
Even if Amiable did not upgrade me, they could at least offer remedy and repair for that which I paid for (and promoted). They do not. Instead, their "stance" is: pay the price twice... or a large portion thereof. They up-ed the anty and I say/said: "Up Your Anty Instead Of Mine." (If it's any consolation: Even car Mfgrs. offer a recall on non-working parts-- But that's for our safety, not a component our livlihoods at stake)
You suggest I not waste my time with this issue anymore since it's (unproductive?), fruitless, a waste of time?
Well, my fellow American(s), brushing the dirt under the carpet and purging the experience is all too often how people/vendors, et als, get over and beyond us... while we're left heaving the hoe. No?
We all have to make that eternal, infernal buck--so, as a result, we the people-- small businesses, the backbone of this good nation, always wind up taking it "on-the-back" (whilst they, the Lords, hope in time we'll forgive and forget as we toil onward. We all too conveniently forget that our efforts and dollars build companys like Amiable.)
Fifty lashes, fifty one lashes, fifty two lashes and so on...scorning down through the ages.
When are people going to wake up, clean up, stop being soft and get the dust from under the rug?... for it's a heap a'piling. Talk about the Borg??? Our society is nurtured and fostered with the idea that "resistance is futile". Bull! I admire those who make a stand in the face of adversity... futile as it might seem... it bespeaks that the human spirit is not completely zombi-ized and dead. Now if it were someone coming into your house or business stealing from you, well, we'd assume a different "posture" would we not? We choose, in this instance, not to see it that way... but a steal it is, nonetheless. Cal it highway robbery, or snobbery-- it's all synonymous with being taking advantage of...violated.
Many let Amiable (boy what an ironic name for a company... means:'agreeable'?) into their lives and companies... smack in the middle-- A/ScanVEX draws the line and, for all intent and purpose, bails on them unless they pay the fare.
Typical, they make the mistakes and the consumer pays the price. "Pass it on" says the CEO.
I'll put my company's dollars eslewhere from here on in rather than be led by the dangling carrot another amiable mile. Thanks, but I'll "Pass" the "Word" on instead. Got to give me credit for that, No?
Perhaps, it'll save some other, unsuspecting lad the trouble I and others have endured.
Now that's action instead of reaction and surrender-- That's doing something positive and making a difference if you ask me. So stand where ye must... whilst others pave the way to freesom and the promised program...LOL.
You and the boys here are all "OK" in my book, Doug... but then, you don't need my approval to be a decent lads.
Now, can we sign you up as a Patriot? (I thought not)But Uncle Slam WANTS You, Appollo Creed!
Hey, I enjoy a good read and write even when my spellchecker isn't working right.
See you at the OK Corral, OK?
Kind regards,
Whyit Blurp? Why it, the proggie, no work?
Posted by Amy Brown (Member # 1963) on :
Scanvec Amiable (all products I have) suck as well as the support structure. Corel does all I need it to do a whole lote cheaper.
On another note, I hope they don't collapse since my one package is only 3 months old!
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
Okay, I'll disagree. I love FlexiSign. I'll admit that tech support is non-existant. When we first upgrade to 6.0 our system was crashing 20 or 30 times a day (and I documented the error codes on all of them) and I raised hell with salespeople and crashed an email server one day (thanks Warez). After living with crap for five months and almost daily calls to tech support we finally got past the idiots at the computer monitors. We finally talked to a vendor about our problems. He listened for two minutes, told us to upgrade our RAM and we've NEVER had another problem.
Now the good stuff. I love the fact I can manipulate text, add outlines, add effects, and still go back and correct spelling. The program is hands down better than Illustrator, which I used for 5 years. The learning curve on Flexi is pretty steep and without adequate support you are pretty much on your own but once you learn how to use it it streamlines the heck out of work. It creates gradients for digital printing that I can't equal in Photoshop.
Flexi is great and worth the money to me, with or without the tech support.
Posted by Fran Maholland (Member # 3609) on :
Also Doug-- and ye wrote:
"Just in the last week this post was started by Jim Kielt, the Regional Sales Manager of Scanvec Amiable, & includes a reply from Judy Heft, the PhotoPRINT Product Marketing Manager for Scanvec Amiable."
That's well and good... pursuing other markets...very wise too. But what about AI and EPS filters and other features that don't work in earlier versions. Plough new territory and bury the mistakes? Hey, you bury people and their businesses, in part, too, when you bury mistakes.
I'd like to see Amiable extend an amicable,'amiable', open hand... not a hand on-the-take.
Now maybe, just maybe, if AmiablescanVEX were to contact me for the sought after upgrade as the wave of dissatisfaction gains momentum and tidals in their direction... just maybe, I might be able to say that there's hope for them beyond the all the yakitty-yak of their sandbagged nuances lining their shoreline to salvage their inevitably failing reputation. We're all hearing the testimonies as they gragually come in. In essence they will translate to more loss than gain over the mandatory upgrade price.
The trumpets beckon.
It's customer relations AND product that makes a strong, reputable company. Not dollar mongers seemingly in desperation to cover their tracks.
De Facto!
15 years ago another company I once worked for told a prospective client: "...the price is the price...take it or leave it" Since that time, my company has been doing all that company's work and, in large part, has contributed to my company's modest success. My former employer, the other company, is now long gone. I never loose sight of that fact. All my equipment is paid for or paid in hard-earned cash from the outset.
Politeness, appreciation, courteousy, friendly accomodating service are the undercurrent qualities of enduring businesses and the themes that keep my clients coming back.
Where has Amiable lost sight of this? Ask the machine, you say?
Can I speak to a person please, just once?
Now if that doesn't make sense, what does?
AmiablescanVEX: Stop sandbagging. Face the shore and extend open hands to still the seas. You have the power. We all have the power. There is no try, only DO.
It's only a hump...not a lump sum. The choice and rewards are yours to ponder.
Kind regards,
The Patriot
Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
First the "scratch" Casmate.......Then they cancel INSPIRE (which I stll use religiously), then I switch over to FLEXI, only because of the future upgrades. I'm currently "using" 7.0....now 7.5 comes out and they wanna charge $45 for that. Screw it.....I've had enuf. If I cant do it with what I have....the hell with it!
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
I haven't read every post here in depth, so I hope I'm not repeating someone...but a word to the wise....
When working in a proprietary sign software program, I always save out a duplicate copy of every file as an .ai file.
I've learned the hard way that if you have a major computer crash, or decide to buy a different sign program....you will need to have an .ai version which is almost universally accepted by sign software programs....
don't get stuck with a .cdl file or some other oddball formatt that you can't open up if you need to on someone else's machine/software etc.
A file backed up safely as an .ai will always bail you out. Cheers.
Posted by Fran Maholland (Member # 3609) on :
To: Bob, then Todd:
Bob, try a $650 upgrade for 6.5 version 3 to 7.0 and above. 'Nuff said.
Todd, thanks for your kind advice. BTW...Flexi 6.5 accepts AI fine from Corel, for instance... but try saving a FS to AI or EPS, for example and re-imorting to Flexi. Doesn't work. 'Nuff said on said issues...but more to come on Flexi, I promise!
The Patriot.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Thanks for introducing us to Jim and Judy from ScanvecAmiable Doug. We couldn't find an e-mail for Jim, but we'll ask Judy to locate someone to respond to this post.
Trade shows are a wonderful opportunity to talk face to face with company reps. Unfortunitly, time, distance and financial issues prevent many small shop owners from attending. There are all sorts of existing and potential customers left out of the loop. Valuable feedback from users is lost.
Here's an example of what I am talking about. Over the years, anyone registering in the Letterville Database tell us a few things about themselves and their business. This includes software/hardware used in their shops. Here's what you tell us.
At this time, 8517 signmakers have registered in the database. 726 claim to use Cassmate, and 1274 use Flexi.
To be perfectly honest, these figures have probally changed through the years. We rely on users to update their own info. I have to assume many Cassmate users have updated to Flexi or other systems. Our database is also badly in need of an upgrade to reflect the new products and systems available today. Digital printing was a brand new kid on the block when this database was created back in 1996.
Despite the above, these figures indicate a large number of Flexi users that use Letterville and other spots on the web to get information. Why don't they consider us as important as the live trade show crowd?
Posted by Judy Heft (Member # 4319) on :
There are so many varied points being discussed here, I don’t know where to begin. My response may be a bit long, but maybe a few interested people will read it:
Part I - A Quick History Review…Back in 1989 both Scanvec, Ltd and Amiable Technologies began developing software for sign making applications. Scanvec’s strength was it’s Scan-to-Vectorize algorithm (hence “Scanvec”) and Amiable started on the Mac platform where designers had not output options. Both companies developed strong products with an even stronger group of followers. The popular CASmate program was redeveloped into Inspire to meet the growing market demands beyond vector cutting. FlexiSIGN-PRO v5.9 was Amiables first product to address the merging markets of cutting and printing. Then came 1998 when the two companies merged; Inspire had weak acceptance and Flexi v6 was already on the drawing boards. Any corporation would have chosen to merge the two competing product lines into one, as did Scanvec Amiable. Incorporating the strong features of CASmate and Inspire, Flexi 6 was a complete re-work of the programming code to allow for the “Smart Objects” and other task-simplifying features Flexi has today. Unfortunately Flexi experienced “bug” problems that all new or re-worked programs experience. Ongoing software development is a constant necessity – to meet the demands of the changing markets and of course the changes in operating systems. Flexi 7.5 is the newly released version, meeting the demands for many, especially the Edge users. Scanvec Amiable will continue to develop software, as long as the sign market continues to suggest new features and applications, and as long as Microsoft and Apple continue to provide the world with new “better” operating systems.
Part II - $$$…Yes CASmate was expensive to buy complete, as was Flexi. Many engineers put in many hours to develop the software. Computers aren’t cheap either, but they should be considered the part of doing business. To quote someone “Sure, you can build a house with a tackhammer, but it's gonna be a drag.” My husband owns a roofing company and uses the expensive pneumatic air-nailers; not because he likes the color, because he knows the proper tools will let him nail more shingles faster…finish the house…get paid…and move on to the next job sooner. DeWalt is not trying to take advantage of roofers when they release a new gun with the new features my husband’s been hoping for. Regardless, it sure beats the tackhammer. FlexiSIGN is not perfect under every possible scenario, but it is definitely the most stable and most powerful product ever. Bug fixes, new drivers and new profiles are posted on our website as they become available. Updates, a combination of bug fixes and smaller new features, are releases within a version (7.5 from 7.0) are typically no-charge, with a flat free to cover shipping and handling. Upgrades incorporate significant product development, OS support and new devices and are charged for according to a matrix of product level and new features. Consider comparing your software to your vehicle maintenance: You regularly spend a small amount of money to keep your company vehicle in good running condition with lube and oil changes. You need your vehicle to get to work, delivery and install jobs. It’s hard to make a good business without a reliable vehicle. All manufacturers recommend major maintenance, usually at 30, 60 and 90,000 miles, where you typically spend several hundred dollars to maintain the reliability of your vehicle. Many people opt not to perform the major maintenance and then are overwhelmed by the cost of a major repair or replacement. Software is much the same…update as necessary and upgrade as available to keep your system running the best possible and also to avoid larger investments down the road.
Part III – The Company…Scanvec Amiable is not a large company by any means. Of course we would love to have unlimited Tech Support, development staff, as well as representatives to participate every discussion group, but it is fiscally (and physically) not possible. Staff of this magnitude would translate to higher costs, which no one wants.
Throughout your discussion here, several problems have been eluded to, but nothing specific. I would like the opportunity to address each problem specifically. Customer input is invaluable to Scanvec Amiable for our continued success.
Scanvec Amiable tries to invite input and comments through several methods: Customer Service Phone: 800.229.9068 Technical Support Phone: 800.229.9044 Website: www.ScanvecAmaible.com Web Support: e-support@ScanvecAmaible.com
And now I would also like to offer my contact information for all to use: Judy Heft – Product Marketing Manager JudyH@ScanvecAmaible.com 800.229.9066 x146
Posted by Fran Maholland (Member # 3609) on :
Thanks, Judy, if you're still there. I honour your gracious knowledge of your company and industry.
I am a seasoned businessman with an engineering background. I am quite aware of the R&D expense and scenarios you bring to musty light-- and laboured gauzy architype. I could have easily rendered the same or similar explanations of the 'big picture' with the same corporate flair as was my wont when I supported Flexi... up to a few weeks ago.
I, myself, did in fact address many important issues, both specific and general, over the course of this post. And, true, some other peoples responses were vague, encompassing the frustrations of how Amiable does business.
Know one thing: I shall not pay one cent to upgrade my inherently flawed and expensive Flexi program. So let's not tit-for-tat. I paid for something and discovered, subsequently, that Amiable did not deliver.
The building-in of "new features" on the heels of much needed and long-awaited "fixes" is not what I asked for. I asked for a complete, working program that I purchased. Keep the new features and give me/us the fixes. When I/we want the new features to still-existing proggies, we can negotiate them...but for now, Flexi's a thing of the past unless you can give me good reason to stay with the rpoduct.
Of all I read of yours sounded more like excuses and justifications. I used, sold, promoted and supported (technically) your product and Amiable failed me. Now you want me to accept and assimilate the drawbacks and burdens of soft engineering and poor business practices? We are sign people: hard working, simple people, who merely ask that Amiable make good on that which we purchased as whole and complete working program(s); that is, those still in executive boardroom existence.
Sure we understand the progression of time and change in today's world. But $650 to upgrade from 6.5v3 to past 7.0. Nah, don't think so for what I've and others have seen thusfar.
Skim over our posts again in more depth. Be a listener more than a Charles Dickens, dramatizing the Christmas Carol of Corporate Dilemma. You and the upper echelons may learn something. We certainly have...
The Patriot.
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
Just to comment on this:
“Sure, you can build a house with a tackhammer, but it's gonna be a drag."
Most designers I know use Adobe Illustrator, not a "tackhammer" program by any means. A few major sign companies I know use Corel, yet get the job done, with major success. Flexi-sign, and all these other programs are only tools, some have better feature than others, you still need a tackhammer to build a house, (unless you are going to pound the baseboard with a sledge...) along with the other tools.My complaint....... I think Flexi really screwed up when they got rid of Flexi-Cut, you took away a good entry level solution.
Another thing is upgrade cost, I have a job as a designer, at home I use Flexi to output, it kills me everytime there is an upgrade, so in my situuation I way over--bought, not Flexi's problem.
I think Flexi is a great production program, but for design? Well I do more than just signs, and Illustrator works very well, and I do very complicated ones with it.
Posted by Judy Heft (Member # 4319) on :
Fran;
As I mentioned in my earlier post, I welcome the opportunity to address your specific problems and complaints directly, and make this "Charles Dickens" discussion into something productive for everyone. Please e-mail me directly with the specifics of your problems along with the version number of the software you are running and your operating system.
Respectfully; Judy Heft JudyH@ScanvecAmiable.com
Posted by Harris Kohen (Member # 2139) on :
Hey Fran,
ONE QUESTION: Why arent you a distributor of Flexi anymore? Could this be the driving force behind you BITCHING about the product? I have seen this all too often from people.
MY OPINION: Right now my opinion is that your just passing sour grapes in an attempt to get even with someone for your loss of software sales. Realistically I dont think this is the place for you to be airing dirty laundry like that.
A SUGGESTION: You live in NJ and ScanvecAmiable is in Philadelphia. If you have a true honest beef with those people maybe you should go right up to their offices and sit down with somoene there. Perhaps maybe they would be willing to listen to you even after all your moaning, griping and bad mouthing.
AN IDEA: Maybe, just Maybe they might even fix the problems you say that they have. If your reasonable with them they might possibly even reward you for enlightening them about thier shortcomings in their program. I for one do have Flexi running in my computer, but I must be honest, I dont do enough SIGN work in a year to pay for the program nor the upgrades.
ANOTHER IDEA: If you think that any of the other sign making programs out there are so much better, I suggest you go out and buy one of each so you can see for yourself that they arent perfect by any means either.
SOMETHING TO CONSIDER: Just think, if there was a perfect program out there, dont you think that everyone else would be giving their software away for next to nothing to get their name into the hat? I doubt you will find a program that is perfectly suited to ALL your needs today and into the next 5 years. If you do find one, then you havent progressed to trying new and different methods. When you do find it, please be a nice person and let me know.
IMAGINE THIS: Each time you buy a new computer, why do you do it? Because you wanted something better. Each time you upgraded your operating system, did you go onto a bullboard and bitch out Bill Gates and the thousands of people that work for him. I doubt it. yes I know, we all have our things to say about Bill Gates, but we still give him our hard earned money. Why? because we want it to be better faster and make our lives easier. What a concept. If you really have problems with this software and you will with others. I suggest you go out and get an education in computer software development and reinvent the wheel so to speak.
THE DISCLAIMER: Not trying to pick a fight here or anything like that, I just see what I see, and right now in my mind you look the fool, not Scanvec/Amiable.
HAVE A NICE DAY Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Judy just called us. Guess what? She's a real live, friendy person that I believe is sincerely interested in her clients. We want to thank her for having the courage to jump into this "lion's den." Many actually prefer the hide your head in the sand approach.
We don't want to see this opportunity deteriate into a public debate. Judy has supplied her contact info. Use the phone and/or email to discuss the particulars of your issues and then report back to us.
As business owners, we've all had to deal with customer issues from time to time. In most cases, we are able to come to a satifactory agreement. Judy may not be able to solve all your concerns alone, but she's willing to listen and do what she can. I call that a good start.
In the meantime, we'll work on selling Scanvec Amiable on the benefits of setting up shop in Letterville. Posted by Fran Maholland (Member # 3609) on :
Allow me to reply in kind:
First Judy,
I appreciate your efforts to make peace in these matters, if that's what you intend over appeasemnet.
I e-mailed you twice today and the address addy bounced back each time. (That's OK, you're forgiven.) I already spoke with Amiable last week and their distributor (without mention) with whom I set up the third=party, limited re-sale agreement. No one then seemed willing to budge until the rockets' red glare shown gave proof to the nite. Thus, I'm not working the phones or visiting anyone's office in this regard.
Our grievances were stated herein the subject post, particularly, my modest request and the history of it's denial and weighty price tag.
I'm in your database. I've done my part, contact me if you like. I am not beyond reproach, willing to listen and, if agreeable-- make the clasp for peace.
Mr. Harris, I do appreciate and respect your comments, suggestions, general musings and sundry.
To answer some of your immediate questions-- I established a limited, third party reseller agreement with a distributor (who I wish not to bring into this with the mention of their name)for the purposes of offering Flexi with systems and plotters we set up for people interested in starting up a small sign business as an aside.
The opportunity at the time offered many pluses with networking new and established trades in the tri-state area. But that's besides the point.
My primary grievance is as a user.
I can readily see (and foresaw) how one could misconstrue the situation as you capitulate in your post. It's all a matter of perception and I do respect all you wrote. As Hemingway once said, in effect: to get to the meat of the matter one needs to cut away the fat. Disgruntled, etc. is all fat and not where I coming from. Take the extract of mine and others' comments and, whalaa, you have it. A few modest changes in Amiable's policies, more attentive customer relations, respect for existing users, et als, and Amiable would be in much better favour with their public.
Don't unfurl the white flag and wave it when the fallout's an inch from your nose. I offered a channel of raport with Amiable to address my specific problem(s). They were courteous and cooperatively uncooperative such that my spirit to carry on with them turned a sallow cheek and, yes, soured my taste for Flexi-wine. I'll have to go back and read in more depth what your saying, but I do get the gist of it and I can tell you are an intelligent man of good logic and pin point appraisal. But all as you put it is not as it seems.
There is legitimacy to much that was said by all. All the inner workings of Amiable, R&D drawbacks, etc. are not my/our problem. Most hardworking people who buy a car will keep taking it back until it's fixed. I did not purchase Flexi as a beta tester, but as user and promoter with faith that now lies in the purgatory of betrayals until my spitit is further directed up or down. Either way, I've made my confession like other's here and my conscience is clear and the path, well-lit.
Mr. Steve-- what can I say... you're a good guy, a peacemaker. Maybe you should man the ranks of Amiable corporate and maybe things will get done and the Ark, full again. Can I call you Noah from now on? You seem to genuinely "know-a-lot" and what it takes to bring matters full circle. Get Judy some garland and we'll sail over the rainbow as soon as the module and filters are fixed in my '57 Chevy.
Kind regards,
The Patriot
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
fran...dude...get over it...move on...i paid $895 for my g/a to omega upgrade and i'm gonna shell out another $365 for 2.0 two years later...oh well...it's the price to do business. you seem to do alot of soap box whining...first it's the price of hdu and now flexi sucks....with all the time you've spent on your "cry me a river" novels with this post & the other, you could have worked and paid for the friggen upgrade or bought different software. i would think any "seasoned businessman" could figure out price adjustments to absorb these costs.
Posted by Stephen Bolin (Member # 2234) on :
I'll second what Pat said "I love Flexi!" I have a lot of different programs, but Flexi, once you learn it, has so many features you just don't find in one program.
ScanVec-Amiable is going through problems with organization & mangagement, and they've cut back on support staff, when they should have increased it.
But they have a fine product and if you do any inkjet or solvent printing, Flexi has a great RIP, that isn't a rip-off at all. No pun intended--just look at what other Rips cost.
Sorry some of you have had problems. I have had more problems and headaches with Gerber software than I have ever had with ScanVec-Amiable.
I am not crying over the $650 upgrade from 6.X to 7.0--I bought it for 2 stations --That's $1300. To me, it's a cost of doing business.
Stephen Bolin
[ December 02, 2003, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: Stephen Bolin ]
Posted by Fran Maholland (Member # 3609) on :
Thanks, sweet Karyn, and another sweep under the rug...everything manufacturers' hope and dream for in the pawn of their products. I'm over it, beieve me. But others asked for explanation and offered their own.
Usually I try to approach a subject, beef, or whine somewhat intelligently. I know a little about you and you've been helpful in the past.
Fortunately, I've remembered the good stuff, not just the whining. As I recall, you have it quite conveniently nice in your office/home/shop as some others here, so it's probably easier for you to "move on" than others. I, too, have it good and recall the days of struggle. But what about the little guy? The newcomer? Who's looking out for him? Informing him? I spoke. Others spoke. Much good came from this, but obviously some things like "eye candy" and idle talk with little conviction is more engaging than doing something good, setting standards for our vendors to ponder, etc., instead of biting the bullet all the time. HDU was a fair discussion. All points of views were considered. Some here need something more "engaging" to offer and read than tabloids and MAD magazine every day. Your interpretation of "seasoned" and mine are semantically different, but I still love you and respect your angle on matters just as I do everyone elses'. Shame it's not always a two-way street for the healthy, wellbred and secure of our species.
Kind regards,
The Patriot (of futile missions)
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Upgrades are a subscription in disguise. Its goona happen more and more. Soon the whole computer world is goona be run thru subscription based software. But, in the future they will call it "subscriptions" i stead of upgrades. They are gonna make us pay 40 - 50 bux a month to run a software just like cable TV. diferent tiers of srevice for higher prices along with price hikes every few months..
IE: The windows activation is the begginings of it all.
Already there are bizz models where you merely keep a stub of a program on yer machine. Then u must get online to operate it every time. I just left a data base program that is going that way. They plan on keeping your data in their severs. You will be trapped.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
I tend to agree with Karyn. We need to spend less time whining and more time working to pay for these necessary business expenses
Regards
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
I'm gonna agree with Karen on this one, too. I don't really have a choice, I'm gonna need a lawyer to explain to me just what in the heck Fran is talking about.
I can't believe I actually saw the word "albeit" on this bulletin board.
Posted by Fran Maholland (Member # 3609) on :
Ladies & Gentlemen,
Perhaps ye are right and it's time to catapult this discussion. Knowest thou that when the "thread" becomes too long, 'tis time to start "sewing" the raveled sleeve of care up.
Nevertheless, this has been an interesting, healthy and engaging discussion and, just maybe, people (including myself) were informed, actually learned something and were stirred beyond a a "howdy-dooty" to express the themselves in a meaningful, consructive way. Perhaps, something was actually accomplished for the good of the whole.
I must remind myself that this is merely a discussion board, not really designed to plunge into the depths of conviction on a topic. We are friends of a feather sharing common ground and should keep things short, sweet and light. Right?
To know me, specifically, is to understand that I am modestly sucsessful at what I do and fairly well-off. One, therefore, may wonder why, in this instance, I balked about the cost of an upgrade.
As I attempted to convey in my previous post-- I never lose sight of the days when I struggled to work hard and earn a living... It's never gets too much easier, relatively speaking. I am also empathic to those who occupy those same fields today. Fear not, I have not become so "high on my hog" that I've forgotten or abandoned my roots and heritage as an aspiring, struggling artist and craftsman.
I'm still here on the outskirts of the woodlands keeping an eye out for those who wouldst prey upon our craft and good natures.
Now please forgive my rhetoric and poetic approach to a now sore subject. But to put it another way-- Often times, those among us who are, in fact, better off in our livlihoods than others as a result of birthright, luck, hard work, or marriage, sometimes find it easier to scuff-off cost of living and business increases better than others. I've seen it happen over and over again and someone has to assume the task or become a spokesman for the people's conscience. And that person has to be amply wise to know that there will never be unanimity on any topic. Thus, I respect all points of view no matter how slanted or to the point with courtesy and respect at the forefront. One needn't ponder or dig down too deep to understand that.
Sometimes someone has to "stop the buck" and to engage our human side. This topic surrounding Amiable is and was a constructive crossroad. Now let's see what happens. Call it bitching, call it whining, call it freedom of expression, call it constructive dialogue-- they're all part of the mix.
But be reminded, before I close, that so long as certain matters are continually "swept under the rug" and we're groomed to accept everything our neighbors choose to pass on to us and we they... I question the mindset of what we're forging. Perhaps a pyramid doomed to collapse when the tolerance factor becomes too steep for the base to support?
Frankly, I believe we need to temper ourselves with healthy, down and dirty discussion now and then before we can ascend to the next tier.
As for my "cry me a river" novel approach to certain subjects, well, that's just me... not all the time and to hear it put that way (which I liked :-) shows that there's more creativity and sharp wit down under the surface of our patrons and contributors here at Letterhead.
Now I'm not angry or put-off by anything that's transpired here. Nor do I consider the effort and discussion exhausted... but I am and will continue to be intent at every "crossroad" where some of all of us can benefit on the healthy exercise of a given topic.
Paying the price isn't always the answer...sometimes one must dig down deep in other areas of their being to find solutions. Hopefully, that needn't occur too often.
Now, peace be to ye all! And, perhaps, with my cleansed demeanour I'll now give Judy a call--or perhaps, if she's been enlightened as well, maybe she'll contact me before I she.
Kind regards,
The Patriot turned Seamstress
Madam DeFarge...if you will
Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
All I can say is BLAH BLAH BLAH! Nothings gonna change! And you all know it! Past performance has made me pessimistic.....and things don't change that easily! S-A will give some complainer a free upgrade somewhere along the line, then......case closed. It's somewhat like everyone complaining about WalMart, but we all go there! Those who use Flexi will pay for upgrading, or THEY will fall behind! The Product you get will NEVER be un-flawed and you will NEVER be happy, and you say you'll never "GO THERE" again, but in all likelyhood you will because you MUST, to keep up with it all. Well....PHOOEY!!!!
[ December 03, 2003, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: Bob Burns ]
Posted by Fran Maholland (Member # 3609) on :
Ah, my good Bob, the truth hurts, donnit?
Especially we cowboys and those of the worn spurs and dusty leathers, who graze the priaries only to discover the herd's elsewhere... in greener pastures, the land of milk and honey... built with others' money.
I do hope the "klan" has the opportunity to read back a few posts, though. Some good stuff there of the 'Blah Ilk'.
Your summary was the best thusfar and just what the vendors pray for to put we hounds abed or "akip", as the English say.
Never fear, though, the 'Mouse Police Never Sleep' and prowl the rye grass with focused eye, radar ear, silent advance and quick responce.
Why, I even think twas they who invented the 'pounce pattern'.
Windy roof top weather cock... tapping the vane.
I am-- The Seamstress
Madam Defarge (A Tale of Two Cities, I believe)
Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
Fran As a former NJ-ite, I'm sure I'm agreeing with you, even though I'm a bit thrown by your 17th(?) century dialogue(I'm jess an ol' signpainter)! In the midst of all that, I'm sure you're TOTALLY correct!
[ December 03, 2003, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Bob Burns ]
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
If there is a point to this post other than the one Bob made maybe someone could "cliff note it" and make it a sticky at the top of the forum because god knows Fran while you're apparently unhappy with Flexi products SO STOP USING THE *(%*&#&q#*&$q#(*&$ THINGS AND GIVE IT A REST ALREADY...or.......box it up,put it on EBAY,god knows its the worlds junkyard, and sell it to someone who'll buy it just cuz they think they got a deal on it. The only fictional revenge character you still haven't mentioned in this crap is the Count of Monte Cristo or maybe hes sleeping in the grass with the mouse police and just hasnt gotten here yet... that or you're trying out lines for a creative writing class...Maybe the easiest thing is for you to do id write the upgrade you want the way you want it to work for Flexi and sell it to em...then it will be perfect,you can keep your $650 or whatever it is. Every software sucks in someway and nothing does everything its supposed to do..you've obviously been in buisness long enuff to know that....live with that or write your own code.....What kills me here is you claim you spoke with half a dozen users.....my god what an industry sample....thats 6 people...6 whole people...at that low a number you can't be sure if its the software or they just can't read the directions sorry to burst your bubble. And no I dont use Flexi....but its rare to see a merchant of any type get involved here,and frankly with some of the bashfests and stupidity of logic that go along with some product attacks here,they all should rate just a bit higher in peoples books when they do respond....but now that one has spoken here about this,you feel its now their duty to contact you instead of you them when you're the one that started this in the first place,sorry wrong....pick up the phone and call em and maybe you'll get an answer or a solution and you wont spend the next 3 days here trying to convince people you're right and evil corporate america is wrong....you wanted a person response...seems to me you got one from them and in an open forum none the less...they could have easily contacted you away from here so take advantage of that instead of using it to see how many obscure theatrical and literary references you can toss in to make it look like you have more to say about the issue than you actually do. Sorry but I think the real issue here is that Flexi never did do 100% of what you thought it was going to do,but since you sold and promoted it you got it either dirt cheap or free,sang its praises,overlooked what didn't work conviently and then when that relationship went south,they expected full price for what you felt you were entitled to for the time you put in with em and now you're p***ed. Guess what thats life,been there done that more than once....you certainly dont have the market cornered on that so let it go you'll live longer. Other than that...read what Bob said about 12 times.
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
These type of discussions are nothing new, in fact they were going on when I first stumbled on this BB in 95. I had just purchased my first computer and was about to buy a sign program. After reading the endless complaints about the dedicated sign programs and the lack of support and the continual screwings that came from all of them with the exception of Gerber, who, do to the "you won't need this guy anymore" advertisements back in the eighties, would never get a dime of my money, I was certain I didn't want a dedicated program. Then I read Dave Grundy and OP's posts about cutting directly from Corel. Those two guys saved me ton of money, not to mention a lot of aggravation. Thanks guys Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Well here is my two cents... I don't use Flexi...I have a Gerber with whom I maintain a love/hate relationship. I have a brain and somewhat creative hands, tools on which I can always rely, like in Pat's post. I have been getting a kick out of Fran's prose! He is a hoot! Love- JILL (...nobody cares what I think anyway!!!)
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Steve
I am begging you to shoot this dead horse ....Please. I too hate flexi, but the rehash is sickening.
Posted by Terry Whynott (Member # 1622) on :
I agree Rick!
Put this thread to bed. Fran posted his problems, A Flexi rep has come forward to offer help. Done.
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could figure out price adjustments to absorb these costs.
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