Trying to learn to play the beginning of [a version of] Smoke on the Water by Blue Oyster Cult.
In it, I am striking the fingered "E" string (top one)and it begins to vibrate badly. I am holding the string firmly so it is contacting the fret firmly.
Why does it begin to make a nasty vibration sound?
It's almost like it's too loose and starts to vibrate into other frets or something?
Can you tell I'm just getting started?
Thanks for your help....
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Todd, its by Deep Purple... if that helps
*edit* oops, i missed the "[a version of]" part. sorry 'bout that. I figured you, being a sign guy, knew your "colors' better then that, but my posting finger was going faster then my reading skill.
[ November 26, 2003, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I gotta add that was one of the first songs learned by my first band for our first paid gig which was an 8th grade graduation party. 1973, & that song had just come out. We all loved it right off, so we were learning it before it started climbing the charts. By party time in May or June it was becoming the song of the summer... & we had it nailed (for snotty-nosed 13 yr. olds) I can still remember leading in with those hi-hat 16th notes & snare cracks on the 2 & 4... ah the memories. We later went to extremes to build a dummy Fender amp with genuine metallic Fender speaker cloth & chrome insignia, so we could put the dry ice in the back to simulate the awesome pyrotechnics of their "Made in Japan" live concert on Don Kirshners "In Concert" series. We sure thought we were cool back then.
*edit* man, you opened the floodgates now Todd... I thought I was over it ^ had moved on, but Ian Paice (sp?) was my drummer idol, & his influence on my style is still with me today. We played: Space truckin Highway Star Maybe I'm a Leo Child In Time Highway Star Lazy Speed King Strange Kind Of Woman
man those were the days... about your guitar troubles, sounds like your big hair might be hanging in the strings, or you tweaked the neck when you bashed it into your amp at the end of that last song
[ November 26, 2003, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
Posted by Rosemary (Member # 1926) on :
I know! Its cuz its touching a fret in the upper register. You need to do a fret test! I haven't been on the computer for a long time and I'm SO SO restless! Its snowing like crazy and I hate this new medication! Dad's out in the recording studio so I kinda sneaked in here. I'm going to read the baord till I get in trouble anyway. Bye!
:^)
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Hi Rosemary! Hope you can sneak in a good long read best wishes for the holidays!
Posted by Rosemary (Member # 1926) on :
Hee hee! I will, and thank you! He'll be in the studio for another half hour and Mom's upstairs sewing. This medication affects my eyesight and they tell me that it can bring on migraines if I read books or watch too much TV, but I already have one anyway!
:^)
Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
Great to read a post by you Rosemary!
We (Lettervillians) all know that you're gonna pull through your health problems with that fightin' St Marie spirit!
Happy thanksgiving!
Posted by Rosemary (Member # 1926) on :
Thank you, Jon! But I'm BUSTED!! Fooey. Mom is making me sign off. I'm getting really tired anyway. I hate this Marinol. Oh well. Night guys! Happy Thanksgiving!
:^)
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Sounds like your guitar might need a setup Todd. Lay your guitar on a table and hold your bass string down so it is touching at the first fret. Now use your right hand to hold it down at the 12th fret. You should see a small space above the frets in between. If the string is touching, you need a truss rod adjustment.
You've picked a great time to ask guitar questions. I've played since I was a teen, but I've really been playing the same stuff over and over for 30 years. Now I'm obsessed with learning more. I'll pass on some of the tools I am using as soon as I can put together all the links. Stay tuned.
OK! I'm back. You probally never even knew I left. I don't know what it is with Smoke On The Water, but everyone wants to learn it. Pay attention Sonny Franks! We're all gonna learn it together. At a future live meet we will all play it together.
First thing you need is a small program called Power Tab. It's free and you can download it at the link below. Go get it and install it.
There is all sorts of music available for the Power Tab program. Here's just one site that you can search and/or browse for music files to use with Power Tab.
I've already done the search for Smoke On The Water. Go to the link below and save the file to a new directory you create just for this and future Power Tab files. You might call it PT Files.
You'll notice these are zip files. I'm going to assume we all know what a zip file is how to open it. Once you open the file, it will automatically launch the PowerTab program. The rest is practise. Good luck!
[ November 26, 2003, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Thanks guys! Wow...I was gone for an hour and a half watching "Finding Nemo" with the family...and I come back to lots of info.
Doug...stupid me, yes "Deep Purple". I'm always mixing stuff up. My son is an awesome drummer (14 yrs)...he does the whole set, breaks and all and likes "speed drumming" to fast stuff by Blink 182, Lincoln Park and stuff. He has it nailed pretty good.
Yeah, I remember all those songs you noted...in fact, I'm gonna have to go out and get the Deep Purple Hits cd....you've reminded me of their other fantastic songs.
Thanks Rosemary and Steve...I'm checking that now per Steve's instructions....
Ok Steve, when making contact with the strings at the first and twelfth frets > > > the second fret is a micron away from touching but not quite and it appears the 11th fret is touching...
What do you make of that? I'm assuming there should be some space between the 11th fret and the string? Please advise when you can...and thanks all. Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Cool and thanks Steve, I'm downloading that now....
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Here's some info on truss rod adjustment. This really should be done by a pro who knows what they are doing.
Steve...thanks...I'll definately take it in. We have Elderly Instruments in Lansing and Marshall Music too.
I can't get the Smoke on the Water file I downloaded to open up in the Power Tabs Editor. It seemed to unzip ok but I get an error....I'll try downloading it again and re-unzipping it.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Ok...it opened up...cool. I found another neat little source that shows the tabs and plays a repetition of the midi ....its:
as far as the finding tabs...do a google search for "guitar tabs"....there's a gazillion of them on the net and a bunch of them that are worth bookmarking.
Also, if you have any bands in particular whose music you'd like to get tabs for, alot of the bands have sites (usually the band's name.com) and many of them include some tabs of their most popular songs.
BTW, that powertab thing doesn't have a Mac compatible version. Anybody know of something similar that does?
Posted by Jeff Ogden (Member # 3184) on :
Another possibility for the sound your getting on that string is that something is out of whack with the nut at the top of the neck. That white bar with the grooves in it. If the string is not resting properly in it's groove, it will sound the way you descibed. Look to see if it is sitting all the way in the groove, or if something is keeping it from fitting good, like a small piece of trash. It's possible too, that the string is too light a gauge for your particular guitar, or that the groove itself is slightly hollowed out. In the case of the former, you could try a set of slightly heavier strings, or in the latter, maybe a new nut might be in order.
The other nut is on the bridge. Check it too. Also, if you ever want to lower the action (get the strings closer to the neck), another thing you can do is pull out that bridge nut, and file it sown some on the bottom edge, then put it back into the bridge. Your guitar will play easier if you can do that. I guess I should mention that some guitars may not need these adjustments. Maybe you know some local musicians; they would probably be willing to look at your guitar and see what's wrong with it. Most of the guitar guys I know are always monkeying with guitar adjustments...sort of maxing out their instruments for better performance.
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Adding to Jeff's post...Filing down the saddle (never heard it called a nut, but we're talkin bout the same part) works great. Be careful to keep the bottom edge smooth and level with the original thickness. I measure and mark the saddle, from the bottom. That assures maintaining the same angle once files. A sanding block is not a bad idea once you get close to the preferred height. I'll usually shave no more than an 1/8th inch from the bottom. New saddles are available from any music store for a couple bucks. I understand that the good ones are made outta ivory and I'm sure a big price diff. The cheap ones like I have on mine are plastic. I play so badly that I doubt a better one would be noticeable.
[ November 27, 2003, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Don Coplen ]
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
Pooh told me about this post........... Don, the "nut" is, in fact, the string carrier at the top of the neck. The "sadddle" is the string carrier that rests in the "bridge" at the rear of the guitar. Both saddles and nuts in quality instruments are grooved with the bottom of each groove following a radius that matches the radius of the frets. Its usually NOT a good idea to mess with the original cut of the grooves. Shaving the base is ok as long as you know what you're doing. If you do happen to shavew too much from the saddle area you can use non-compressible, thin stainless steel foil shims. Its highly likely that the "buzz" is from a fret that is a bit too high near or above the 12th fret. Shaving a fret is not hard, but you do need a preformed jig to be certain of uniformity. The only way you'll know that the nut is the culprit is if the offending resonance accurs when the OPEN string is plucked, not fretted. How do I know all this? ...... guess. heh....
Pierre
And.. Happy Thanksgiving!
*edited to add* And Don............ When you keep changing your posts to correct them based on information posted AFTER your initial response, it's annoying and confusing. If you're unable to leave erroneous information posted "as-is", why bother to post at all? Its embarassing for the posts following yours. This isn't a flame, just a personal observation.
[ November 28, 2003, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: pierre ]
Posted by Steve Burke (Member # 2674) on :
Todd,
FWIW-I heard that Tony Iomi of Black Sabbath flattens his low E by a note (or maybe a 1/2-note...I can't remember)to give it more bass crunch. Maybe Deep Purple do the same?? I have also found that the more commercial the tab site the more popups- if you do a search and you can tell it's some fan's site, try his first- the odds are it won't drive you to disraction closing windows.
PS if you like Deep Purple try picking up a Gov't Mule CD...good ole rock 'n' roll from Warren Haynes and two other chaps I can't recall...
-Steve
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Todd,
Here's a website you ight like with loads of tabulature...
Doug, We may be drummers, but once in a while "Smoke on the Water" makes us feel better (almost like musicians)...taught it to my son a few weeks ago. Posted by Mark Matyjakowski (Member # 294) on :
Aren't these tab sites great ... I remember way back, when you had to listen to the song over and over to learn it. Here's one of my favorites... http://www.tabcrawler.com/ They have pretty much everything (even drum tabs)
The tabs should tell you if alternate tunings are used. From what I recall alternate tunings wern't needed for the older stuff (deep purple, black sabbath) ... drop D didn't really become popular till the late 80's (black sabbath didn't use drop D till the born again album)
Funny how some things never change ... first songs (intros) my son (12) learned were smoke on the water and iron man.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
quote: once in a while "Smoke on the Water" makes us feel better (almost like musicians)
LOL ! yeah, that one along with the drum break in Joe Walsh's Funk 49 were my shining moments! ('cept the time I launched into my go-nuts hit everything "S on the W" ending 2 bars early! Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Cool...thanks everyone for your interest in helping here...hope ya all had a great turkey day.
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
No harm intended, Pierre. I think I need to push my chair further away from this board, don't ya think.
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
Me too, sometimes.
Posted by Santo (Member # 411) on :
I like the tab sites myself! The newest musician in my family is my eleven year old. He's on basketball break right now, but took about 3 months of lessons and was working off the tabs. He's real good picking notes, which is what I never learned. He works on the piano often and is always singing along and whistling tunes. Oh yeah, for the buzzing, bring your guitar in for fret and bridge work. No biggie, I bought my Yamaha in 1980, and had that done 2 days after I bought it. The strings were lowered and it made it so much easier on the fingers and hands. You electric guitar players should have more adjustment gadgetriy availvle already.
[ December 01, 2003, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: Santo ]
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
thanks Santo!.... Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
Is your guitar tuned to standard? If it is tuned too low, that could also cause the strings to buzz. I would also suggest tightening or loosening the truss rod in the neck but, as mentioned above, it would be wise to let a pro do it. The truss rod is designed to compensate for a bowing neck. It is basically a long, bowed piece of steel, set in a curved channel. When you tighten the allen screw at the end, the truss rod responds by trying to straighten out, thus, being inside a curved channel in the wooden neck, it pulls the neck straight. If you look down the neck of the instrument, you can see if it's bowed excessively. I had to do it to my banjo and my 12 string guitar. No more problems since. Also. if your bridge saddle is too low, it can cause buzzing.
I just changed the strings on my banjo last week and was getting buzzing from the bottom two strings. Evidently I had reinstalled the bridge backwards and it was causing the strings to vibrate in the larger bass grooves. I loosened the strings and turned the bridge around. End of problem.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Thanks Wayne...I have it tuned to an electronic tuner...which I believe is standard. I'm still going to take it in like many have suggested and let a pro fix it and explain what the problem was.
Thanks for you input.
Posted by Mark Rogan (Member # 3678) on :
Since I have all you guitar people here in one place I figured I'd ask if anybody COLLECTS rare guitars and if so, if you might be interested in a Gibson LeGrande serial # 0001 making it the FIRST guitar Gibson produced in the new millenium-bar none. It's simply an amazing instrument and I'm loathe to sell it, but I could use the cash. Anyone interested can email me and I'll send pix/price, etc.
Mark
PS: Rosemary, great to see you back on the board! Hang in there sweetheart! @->-->-->
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