Well, I started a new job today at UPS. Not the most exciting job but a step towards a career with a pension and steady pay. I'm tired of the roller coaster ride the sign biz has been for me. I'll have to put in a couple of years part-time before I can get full time but I'm in a position to be able to wait. I think I will always do signs but will pick and choose what I want to do. It has been a fun coaster ride though.
Cheers
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Hi Rob... I don't blame ya one bit buddy. A pension and a regular pay check sound pretty good to me now that winter is upon us. Glad to know that you will still be doing signs...you are too good at it to give it up forever. And you can deliver a package to me any day, babe! Love- JILL Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
i totally understand...i had this conversation with my husband last night at 10pm...i was painting boards in the garage(finally finished the van i had to letter so i could put it outside and spread out all the boards for another coat...only one useable bay) and he was coming home from hockey. he called me his "little hazardous waste girl" as i was carefully putting my rollers in my turpentine filled holders. honey, you work too much he said...yeah i know sometimes i wonder about my decisions...but i'm not giving up yet...you'll have to be the benefits and pension guy...i said. it's a tough roller coaster ride especially if you've got a family to support...good luck with ups...i'm sure that will be a good career move and you can do the stuff you chose to when it suits you.
[ November 24, 2003, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: KARYN BUSH ]
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
We've been getting some great deals on E-Bay lately, and I can only see that line of work (shipping) increasing.
Ray R., Robert Beverly and I have made comments in the past about sign people doing other types of work. I myself have ended up painting alot of R.R. equipment, not because the work is mentaly challenging, but because it's SO PREDICTABLE.
Posted by John Martin Robson (Member # 1686) on :
Just reviewing all the bills, recievables and taking stock.
Not sure if I should be buying more vinyl today or bullets.
Robert........no money in kayaking eh?
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
I don't have much faith in that move Rob. (I've been down that road).
Oh sure, it is rational, but I think the reasons creative people are drawn to this trade are far more emotional than logical. I really suspect by the time you get settled into a 'day' job you will be kicking yourself that there's no thrill to it, and not enough time or energy left to pursue your graphic interests. But if you're anything like me, you WILL pursue it, as a sideline - or maybe it will pursue you...and I predict a rather annoying event - the day you knock out a Saturday lettering project and make as much as you made in a week at your other job. Then you're going to squirm as you realize the problem is not in the sign business but in getting the sales.
All it takes is one single day a week, at the right rate, to match the income from 5 days of a 'real' job. Granted, it often takes 4 days of calling, chasing and breath-holding to get that one job, and that's the rub. It's that waiting and being out of control that we all abhor. But when it works its a beautiful thing. And when you can hook up two or more productive days in the same week you have doubled or tripled the earning potential of any non-executive or blue collar job (brown collar in this case).
Even when I have tried employment in graphics related fields, they weren't MY graphics and I wasn't allowed sufficient creative freedom to keep me happy. Top that off with getting a paycheck at the end of the week that was a tiny fraction of what I could have made independently, and it was an emotional disaster for me. Maybe if you can compartmentalize your yearnings somehow it will work out better for you. I just could never get over feeling restrained.
Posted by Robert Larkham (Member # 2913) on :
Jon, There would be great money in being a River Guide for Kayaking but the water flow is as unpredictable as the sign business. If I follow my heart I would continue doing what I'm doing but with a 10 and 12 year old children to think about I'm going to make a change in life. I'm thinking I'd rather make 50 to 60 thousand a year working 40 hours instead of the many more ours for the same and much less pay. Kayaking and Sign painting will always be a passion of mine. Sometimes passions come and go as I have had many throughout my short life. The one passion that will not go is my family and I'm thinking of them first when it comes to my lastest life decision. I haven't anything bad to say about the sign business as I still love it. It just isn't going to give my family the support we need and allow me to spend the hours with them I would like. A 9-5 M-F will do that for me. I still do and always will believe in the Letterhead movement and will continue to support it. I have made many friends in this business and don't want to lose them now.
Joe Rees, I worked for a paycheck long before I got into this crazy world. I remember coming home and sitting with my wife and kids instead of chasing jobs and money owed to me. It was a simply deal, work forty hours and get paid...no headaches. My Mom just had a stroke five weeks ago at age 61. She can no longer run her Bridal and Tuxedo shop that she has been doing for years. She was self employed and has no benefits to fall back on now. Dad is retired on a fixed income and has no pension. That is a pretty schitty place to be. I'm looking down the road and hoping I don't end up in those shoes. Who knows I may just end up supporting Mom & Dad if things get any worse. An honest living for decent pay is not a bad thing.
[ November 24, 2003, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: Robert Larkham ]
Posted by Darrell Giese (Member # 768) on :
Dammit Joe, how long have you been watchin' me??
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Robert, next time I receive a package that's been abused by UPS, I'm gonna come lookin' for you! Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Robert.
Sounds to me like you made a very difficult but unselfish decision. You are thinking of your family first, which is very commendable.
There's nothing wrong and everything right about making sure your kids and family are taken care of. And having some sort of income come retirement is "a good thing".
I know it's kind of a bummer...but hey, like you said....you can get the steady pay and the benefits and STILL dabble part time doing the sign stuff you like for fun and fullfillment.
In fact, it might even be MORE enjoyable for you knowing you're doing it because you want to and not because you have to.
Good luck to you and your family.
Posted by jimmy chatham (Member # 525) on :
i think you are making the right decision. if i had stayed with the post office & done signs part time i would be retired now and would not have to worry about having to work after 3 strokes.
Posted by BrianTheBrush (Member # 1298) on :
Rob, you ol' Chicken Spinner You!
ONLY YOU knows what's best for you and your family. You and I have discussed the long hours, tightrope walking and breath-holding.
You're always gonna have friends in this business. You're always welcome back, on any level. You already posess the mental tools to succeed here, so you'll walk away having conquered the lion's share of this trade, not being defeated by it.
So now..does Spider get yer accounts by default!!??
Be well pal.
B the B
Posted by Robert Larkham (Member # 2913) on :
B the B, I'm not out yet. I have to put in some part time (2+ years) at UPS before you can get full time. But when I do, Yes, Spider will get some of my accounts. I will still do some carving and paint work that I chose to do but will scale back on a mojority of the work. Understand, this is just a plan. Some plans fall to crap before they are finished but this is what I would like to see happen.
Posted by Steve Barba (Member # 431) on :
I'm with you Rob! Sturgis Signworks was just starting to show a good profit margin at the beginning of the year, with full anticipation of the summer rush to keep us through the winter.
In May- My greedy little POS landlord calls me and says that my building is getting TORN DOWN to make a parking lot for greedy little POS vendors that come to this greedy little POS town every August.
Without a building, we never recovered. There is nothing to rent in this town, without having to MOVE OUT to make way for big bux vendors.
I have a job now, working nights and weekends at a casino here. Pretty cool gig, sit on my ass all night and watch TV. I already did the career-pension thing, so I have a little lee-way, (not much).
My plotter and brushes are in storage, I'm not going to keep it all hooked up, taking up space, on the off chance someone might call me before the summer rush. One good thing though- I am finally, after probably 3 years, completely caught up.
Best of luck to ya!
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
To understand the meaning of a Straving Artist!
After 28 years of experience....... and the local "Inkhead Shops" doing the all (Plastic Wooden Signs.)
I too am at a lose?
I don't and wouldn't fork out that $100,000.00 or more just to get more doctor bills for my... Pain and suffering.
But then again I like being a thorn in their sides (Inkhead Shops) once in while! Posted by DONALD THOMPSON (Member # 3726) on :
Robert, I really like Brian's comments, because everyone's situation is different. Especially when it comes to family and the thoughts that run through our minds concerning them. I have three daughters and I often am concerned with our families future. I love what I do, and 99% of the time look forward to coming to work, but it gets tough around the 20th of the month and in Jan. when my property taxes are due. Best of luck with your decision.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Good Luck to you Rob
One half of me is sad to see you have to go that route, the other half is envious.
Who knows, more of us may not be too far behind you.
Posted by Richard Doyle (Member # 2919) on :
Rob,
I work full time as a Computer aided draftsmen and make signs out of my garage on the side. my wife had opened a shop and did lettering and vinyl signs. but that didnt last long. now we have no overhead no second electric/phone/heating/rent bills and everything we make is profit. me and my wife work full time and any signs we make is gravy I got hand carved a job I just started on Im getting paid $1,900 it will cost me about $700 to make so $1,200 bucks isnt bad for doing something I consider a hobby
in short your doing the right thing in my opinion
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
Congrats on a very difficult decision for you!
My hubby currently is in the 'working for himself' mode, wants to attempt his detailing. I worry about his decision. It's his passion, yet he's not very self diciplined. I don't need 2 businesses to run.
I have to let him try or he'd resent me stepping in and telling him what to do. I truely wish he'd do what you're doing, go for the regular paycheck WHILE building his biz like I had suggested 3 years ago when he first purchased all his equipment! Here we go, yet another roller coaster ride. I'm getting too old for this stuff.
Keep checking in Rob. I enjoy your posts and keeping your passion part time will hopefully give you the creative release we 'arteests' seem to crave.
Best of luck!
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
Thats probably why I have not just jumped into having a sign business full time. I get to design all I want, with great projects and none of the headaches and get paid very good for it. ( to bad my ex gets 2/3rds of it ) After reading about hitting 100k thread, I'm going to definitlty do a lot of homework before starting my venture. I think I'll miss the bonuses, 2 weeks vacation, insurance, 401k, 5 days sick pay, Aeron chair and 10 days paid holidays off.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
good luck rob....and if your into kyaking...you ever hear of the ALLAGASH WATERWAYS in maine? do it, you will never forget it. but you need a full 2 weeks to run it. me iam UNEMPLOYEABLE, my back is bad(no medical insurance)and i dont like mornings, and my mouth dont KISS NO A**...to keep a job. so iam in it till they close the lid. i do computer repair and build a couple here and there.....and iam a good mechanic....so i got enough to keep me eatin.
[ November 24, 2003, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Terry Whynott (Member # 1622) on :
Good luck, Rob. I hope it works out for you.
I'm in a similar situation. I went for an interview at our Nuclear Power Station last week. My wife and I haven't lived together through the week for two years. If this pans out, we'll be moving permantly up there and I'll be making signs as a hobby. They do have an in-house sign department so maybe eventually I'll be able to worm my way in there.
Can you throw your kayak in the back of the truck and go for a paddle on your lunch breaks? Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
I think you made a wise decision Rob. Working for yourself is a wonderful dream, but the reality can sometimes be a nigthtmare.
In my own case, the tail was definitly wagging the dog just before a bunch of heart attacks made our desision for us. I applaude you for having the courage to change horses before you or the horse died. Good luck with UPS and watch out for bored housewives.
Posted by Henry Barker (Member # 174) on :
Good luck to you Rob...its a shame to see someone with so much passion for what you do leaving the industry. But I think having a passion for your family is a very important thing today...says he sitting at work writing to you at 10.30pm
I am often accused of being married to my work! and I never work weekends!
Anyway good luck to you, and I hope you find time over to do what makes you and your family happy...you only get one shot at it.
Posted by Jim Horton (Member # 4271) on :
My nickels worth. I have been working over 31 years now. I have worked for 3 companies that when I showed up for work in the morning, they said "Thats it we are out of business, sorry". My last job lasted 3years (was to be my last) whereas they laid off the majority of the workforce, then filed bankruptcy. I have owned and ran 2 construction companies, 1 insurance agency, 1 computer/ISP shop, and now opening an auto detailing/sign shop. I to have a bad back and an attitude about kissing _ss. I started each of these ventors because the economy didn't have anything up my ally at the time. I am drawing a decent unemployment wage that will last for another 10mths and my wife has a full time job with benefits. Moral of the story is that (I) have not found any guaranties in life. Robert, I wish you and your family good fortunes...
Posted by Darryl Gomes (Member # 98) on :
i too have left the sign business(for a while anyway). I had my own business for 6 years, then worked for somebody else in the city for another 4.5 years. Even working for the other fella, I would sometimes not see my kids for the week, working 70+ hours sometimes. I also still had to run a shop on the side to make ends meet. I quit that job, moved back to my home area and am making furniture right now. This was the best move I have ever made!! I am home in the evenings with the kids, not working my but off on the side to make ends meet, not chasing customers for sales or money, etc..
I had people calling me as soon as I moved back looking for signs, but I turned them down. Now, after a 5 month break I have taken on a couple of signs. I will continue to do the occasional sign for fun, the ones that I want to do. This furniture job is pretty good, but I am still trying to get into the Nuclear plant that Terry is trying as well.
Good luck in your venture. I am glad to see wise planning for the future, and you will always have the desire for creating..
edited for spelling..
[ November 24, 2003, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: Darryl Gomes ]
Posted by PKing (Member # 337) on :
That's odd You are quitting,and I am retiring. Sure it is a rollercoaster. Yet what a RIDE it has been! GOOD LUCK
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
congratulations on graduating to the next chapter in your life Rob. As many have said, it is a noble calling to respond to the needs of your family, even if they may somewhat compromise the calling of your heart. It sounds like you will be finding a way to answer both calls though.
I just lettered a truck for a new Kayak tour company getting established here in Maui. The owner is having some difficulty finding enough experienced tour guides to hire. If you were not a family man, I would think a spontaneous re-location for a job in a 12 month a year kayak business would be something you would consider. With kids, that is highly unlikely, but I felt like mentioning it anyway
Good luck
Posted by Tony McDonald (Member # 1158) on :
Hi Rob,
I've got 22 years in at my day job working 45 to 60 hours a week. It gives me a steady paycheck, 401k, health insurance, paid vacations, a feeling of financial security and a couple other perks. I started my homebased sign shop about 7 years ago and have often thought about giving up my day job to work at it full time. All jobs seem to eventually have a down side of some sort and some days you just want to quit. Truth is...it would be very difficult without all the things the day job does for me and my family. In the mean time, I'm making extra money, paying for my equipment and a brand new pickup with the money my shop generates. I don't want to have a lot of jobs at once, but I like to have one to start as soon as I finnish one. Sometimes I just don't feel like doin' nothin! Kind of the best of both worlds.
Good luck and best wishes to you and your family
Posted by Kathy Joiner (Member # 1814) on :
Good luck to you Rob. I hope UPS treats employees better there than they do here. But the pay is good and so are the benefits.
You have made a decision for family. Your day will come. When all my friends were retiring I started this business knowing nothing. Someday you will retire and be able to do what your heart desires. Just think, you won't have to be an old newbie like me!
BTW Brown uniforms will be welcome at meets Stay in touch with us.
Posted by Mike McCloud (Member # 766) on :
Not really a bad decision Rob. Better that you do it now while you are still hireable. I've been doing this for almost 40 years and nobody will hire me any more for a 'real job'.... 25-30 years ago there was really a lot of money in this business for someone who took enough time and effort to be a craftsman and put out quality. In our modern 'enlighted society' I'm sad to say, 'cheap' wins over 95% of the time. You are hearing a lot of pretty good signpainters not trying to talk you out of it. I would imagine in the future the best examples of quality signage will be done by part time brushers who get the grocery store money from a 40 hr. a week outside source. The world is changing, and not necessarily for the better. Best of luck in your new endevor. Wet a brush at every oportunity. Don't completely abandon the talent. Perhaps the paycheck will give you the time to develope some really top end techniques. Hope so.
Posted by Camille Norvaisas (Member # 501) on :
Robert good luck! It'll be good that you can pick and choose the jobs you want - the biz will be a good side venue.
Joe I'm with you - I've done signs PT for years and quit many fully time jobs as you described - I finally went full time signs and do taxes during the winter slow months for added income.
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
quote:Originally posted by Robert Larkham: I'd rather make 50 to 60 thousand a year working 40 hours
UPS drivers make that kind of money? In that case forget everything I said before. Hahahahaha
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
You can make that, as an environmental graphiic designer, do cool work, be creative, and travel a little bit.
Posted by Robert Larkham (Member # 2913) on :
Joe Rees,
Full Time Drivers make $24.52 an hour plus full medical benefits that are %100 paid by the company. Overtime during the holidays can be a big boost to your yearly salary. Your pension is $100 for every year you work(30 years is $3000 a month pension). It sucks in the begining as everyone starts at the bottom of the barrel loading and unloading trucks and most don't make it to long. It is the hardest work I have ever done so far but I'm looking towards the future.
Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
Good luck, Robert! Maybe you'll be back at it full time in the future. For now you're making the right move. The industry needs good folks like you with a heart and all.
I've about quit myself a half dozen times or so. I've never set the world on fire with my income, but have managed to raise 3 boys and have all 3 go to college. I've been lucky along the way, though. It was always a gamble on my part with one little setback and I would have been through.
We have what we call beer30 on Friday nights with guys who come to unwind and bitch after a hard week. We eventually play cards, tell jokes and such--it keeps us out of the bars and out of trouble. Over half of those who have attended beer30, which is now over 20 years running, are self-employed and some of our greatest conversations have to do with the struggles of running your own business. I distinctly remember one time when we determined that 10 years was probably a pivoltal time for a self-employed person to decide whether to continue or not. We decided that after that length of time you would be too set in your ways to become a good employee.
From a money standpoint the sign biz has never been as great way to go, unless you get giant with it. But then you're just managing other people and you're not going to be doing the creative stuff that made you get into it in the first place. Put aside the posts by some on this board about 1 man shops making over 100grand. 100grand in some parts of the country is 50grand in another, so it's all relative and unimportant if it isn't providing for your basic needs.
The one redeeming thing that has kept me going is those great customers who need me and make me feel important. I like to feel needed. Also being able to drive by a sign and say I did that. with so many jobs you can't view the fruits of your labor. The UPS job will give you the interaction with people and will pay the bills and give you the benefits that will protect your family. That's huge! Go for it and God' speed to you and yours.
Posted by Robert Larkham (Member # 2913) on :
I just wanted to say thanks to all of you who have responded here or in e-mails.Anyone who knows me know this decision has not been the easiest for me to make. Even though I'm probably two to three years off from getting full time work with UPS it is still something to work towards. I will continue to make signs until that happens. I enjoy hard work and have never minded coming home with the muscle aches at the end of the day. It's a reminder of what your days work (I'm plenty sore these past couple of days). I will bust my rearend and hope for a fruitful future. In the meantime I will keep cutting vinyl and slopping oneshot. Thanks again.
Posted by Keith Slack (Member # 2040) on :
Hey Rob - How ironic this is... 4 years ago I quit UPS and got into the sign business!! Just to fill you in - I had 16 years with UPS and I married into the sign biz. It was a tough decision because of the bennies, wage,hours, etc. But enough was enough. Put the kids thru school, braces, etc. Hang in there, its a tough place to work, mind your p's and q's and it'll be rewarding. If you want to talk give a call. Good luck.
Posted by Tim Whitcher (Member # 685) on :
50 to 60 thousand from UPS? Do they pay that much?? I make around 50, but pay for my own insurance and retirement. I do have equity in my building as well. I've considered working for someone else as well, but my brother in law was (permanently) laid off from NCR last year, and my other brother in law was transfered (with a pay cut) three states away last summer. I wish I knew the answer. Good luck!
Posted by Chris Lovelady (Member # 2540) on :
i just wanted to put my 2 cents in if i could.
i too know the struggles of being in the sign business. the intense rushes and the desperite slow time.
this year i have started painting houses on the side. it has kind of started when people over the years have said "your a artist could you faux paint my living room" well I stopped saying no to painting base boards and walls. got an airless sprayer and have been doing well. the sign business have been moveing along as it always has and continues to grow but the inconsistancy and the "I can get it cheeper down the street.." has drove me crazy!
before i got in to the sign business i said .."i'll work for my self and have no more boss" but found out that i have more bosses than ever.some time i think going back to one boss sound atractive.
But then i slapped my self back into reality. i have a shop..see my kids every day at 3:00 when the come rushing into my shop telling me about there day. if i have to work late it is right next door. i have never gone with out a meal, the kids have never gone with out cloths and we send our kids to private christian school.
the secret that those people have that are successful, is that they charge enough to pay overhead, a wadge, and profit! the problem with alot of sign companys is there are very tallented people who do not know how ask for a living wadge for there work.
i am not by any means trashing any one who chooses to leave a trade to go into another,..to suport the family. i am starting a 2nd business my self.
but i have to look back at the 11 years of being in business for my self and would not want to change a thing..except the amount i use to charge for my work.
i see my ups man every day and he is always seem envious of my business. and he always shows up after 6:00 and on the holiday some time at 8:00 the hours he said has never been 9-5. lest not forget the big strike they had a few years back. it doesn't matter who you work for you will always be expendable to a younger more energetic guy/gal behind you who will do your job for less!
ok that is my 2cents ....im sure you made the right choice for your sercomstance. God's speed and blessing on you and your family...don't let go of the signs and charge more for them!
chris
i wished i could spell though...
[ November 27, 2003, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: Chris Lovelady ]
Posted by Deb Fowler (Member # 1039) on :
Well, Rob, I personally uphold your decision, as it is going to be okay. To be home with your family and having the security to give them is priceless. The kids grow up too quickly and as even babies they can detect stress or security just in your touch, the sounds around the house, etc. Laughing and warm fuzzies are going be more vibrant around your house; you can be sure of that. I have toned down my involvement in the sign biz for the last five years since life has taken me from one state to another and health issues had to be resolved, also a long, drawn out divorce. I needed to be very flexible for my son. And, you know, the sign biz is always here, whether it be small or large, I know it must be in your blood too. My start was 23 plus years ago, and I have worked as many as 120 hours a week (no joke) to maybe 10 hours a week, depending on the circumstances. You will maybe feel more creative as your security increases, and you have better hours that are regular. Your family can plan things also and you'll feel a wonderful release of tension. Why not keep the signs as a part time biz and just work on high quality, paying jobs? You may find it takes one third of the energy to do the same thing as before, and having some flex money to float for some of your supplies and things. Good luck, and btw, I hope you're not going anywhere! Don't think you're leaving this place! not a chance we'll let you go. You're a really good guy! Have a wonderful Thanksgiving and remember the long term goals- you should be proud.
Posted by Santo (Member # 411) on :
I've been in the oilfield services industry 25 years and worked at other jobs part-time or for beer money the entire time. In the early days I worked 7 days on and 7 days off and fished for crabs and shrimp on my days off. Later on I worked 28 on and 28 off on international jobs and did construction contracting on my month off. That was all before getting married and raising a family. Now I'm more than 15 years with my present employer and have 2 boys to get started by providing for their education. One has the grades and the desire to get anywhere. If he gets scholarships great, but I can't depend on that, I'v got to get ready to help. You have to make the choices you make. I think you did the right thing. Best of luck.
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