Last night I've had an interesting discussion that makes me want to ask this question: Why do you, or don't you, use it? I'm not referring to the things that come out of your mouth when you drop the X-acto on your foot for the 10th time....rather to the habitual spicing of ones speech with "the f* this" and "the f* that", and other gems of the english language. What's up with this? Does it make you feel cool? Give you a surge of power? I don't know, clue me in. What would be different if you'd drop it all together? And if you can't, does that make it an official addiction? Would something be missing? Would you feel weaker? Dumb?
The wanna-be-psychologist in me wants to know. Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Hi Lotti I am very guilty of having a trucker-mouth. And thanks to me, so do my kids. I try not to swear. I know it cheapens my image and is downright rude, it is just a nasty habit. I don't swear around my mom or customers, but other than that, I say the F word for punctuation sprinkled into almost every sentence. When I was a kid, I thought it was cool to swear. However, I don't think it's cool to hear my 7-year old call his sister an a**-pirate. He didn't learn that from me! I don't really even know what it means. Sometimes I swear on purpose for shock value. But that can rear up and sting me. I know one of these days a minister will call for a sign and I'll say "Holy S**t!" Love- JILL (trying to tone it down a bit)
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
Most of us probably let one slip or at least think of a cuss word when we're mad. Right?
Very few of my customers use words like that but two of them come to mind. One in particular seems to make it a point to use the most vile language he can think of during normal, matter of fact, unheated conversation. It's probably a habit but, none of these two guys talk like this around my wife. What's the deal?
Posted by Darrell Giese (Member # 768) on :
I find that people tend to believe "If you touch that, I'm gonna rip yer ****in' hand off" more than "If you touch that, I'm gonna rip yer hand off."
So I would say that it lends more credence to my verbal communication.
Posted by Amy Brown (Member # 1963) on :
Personally, I very rarely have a foul mouth. It's just been so negative around here lately and it's always the same people churning the waters. When you are constantly surrounded by negative people you turn negative yourself. I let my guard down and fell down to the same childish level I see them on. I know most are just trying to get a rise out of people and I'm letting them win by acting like an idiot myself!
The thing that is really weird is many of these people I have met in person and they are totally different than they portray themselves to be.
I come here to learn about other peoples projects and them in general. I have for years and for the most part I've kept my mouth (fingers) to myself. I wish I had a dollar for everytime I wrote a big long paragraph and then decided it was too immature to post it!! Does that make it right, no.
I have apologized over and over to people through the board, email and by phone for my post on the other thread. Yes, I agree we are all entitled to an opionion. I screwed up. I'm human!
Lotti, no it's not right to have foul language on the board and once again, I am publicly apologizing to anyone I offended along the way. I will from now on keep opinions good or bad to myself.
The one thing no one is seeing is that there is a lot more more negative going on than just one post. Just look around! Some people just don't know when to quit and I reached the boiling point. Posted by Steve Burke (Member # 2674) on :
I try to be careful what I say, but in the car stupid drivers get the better of me. I should be better, though, as my daughter is at the "parrot" stage...She just started saying "UH-oh".
In that vein I read that if the Gestapo thought a person was a spy they would walk by them and kick them or spill coffee on them, as a person tends to swear in their mother tongue...saying "DOH!" in the middle of Berlin would have been a bit of a giveaway.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
I wish I could remember the exact figures I heard recently, but basically.... people with a larger vocabulary and communication skills earn far more than those without these assets. And I'm certain they weren't talking about a wide range of 4 letter words.
Here's some other interesting tidbits I found:
Research studies have shown over and over that a strong vocabulary is the most noticeable performance characteristic shared by successful professionals. Earl Nightingale wrote of a 20-year study of college graduates. He said, "Without a single exception, those who had scored highest on the vocabulary test given in college, were in the top income group, while those who had scored the lowest were in the bottom income group."
A study by scientist Johnson O’Connor helped quantify a direct correlation between vocabulary and rank on corporate ladder. In the study a vocabulary test was given to executive and supervisory personnel in 39 large manufacturing companies. The test results where conclusive. "Presidents and vice presidents average 236 out of a possible 272 points; managers averaged 168; superintendents, 140; foremen, 114; floor bosses, 86. In virtually every case, vocabulary correlated with executive level and income."
Stop and think about what this provocative research reveals. Everyday that you’re without the right vocabulary words, you’re letting opportunity, potentially more income, respect, and status slip through your hands.
It doesn’t matter if you spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars on a new wardrobe, hairdo, or appearance enhancers … because if you don’t have an impeccable vocabulary to match, your first impression is blown.
Words matter. Every time you speak, people formulate opinions of you and judge you by what you say. Say the wrong things, and people will form bad judgments and opinions of you. Say the right things, and people will respect you, admire you, and windows of opportunity will swing open up for you.
_______________________________________________
I'm guilty of occassionally slipping ...but rarely in front of family, friends, and never in front of my kids. When it does occur, I instantly recognize my lack of control and regret it.....
Genererally speaking, I form a very low opinion of those that can't carry on a conversation without spewing forth a barrage of profanity.
Some famous philosopher said: "The unexamined life isn't worth living". But don't go out and kill yourself over it. Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
i just do...can't explain it. i know i don't do it to impress anyone because i swear out loud when i'm alone...obviously i have issues...lol! i do have a kind heart to go with my big bad potty mouth...i must be an enigma Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
Short version---it's tiresome.
I've heard this stuff all my life, and in my younger days was as guilty of using it as anyone else. Got hauled up short by a supervisor at work once upon a once and being fired was threatened. Nothing like that to give one religion.
The "F" word and all the others have been so over-used that they have no shock value anymore. They were never cute or charming or anything else positive. Movie and TV scriptwriters these days wouldn't be able to write at all if they didn't have the 4 letter stuff to fall back on. Too many people in ordinary conversation would be in the same leaky boat.
This verbal diarrhea coming out of the male mouth is bad enough, coming out of the female mouth is IMLTHO worse. If it were possible for this kind of language to leave something visible, then some people would have a brown stain from their nose to their toes, and twice around.
Charming and cute? About like a nail driven into one's ear.
Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
See, interesting stuff! Amy, it's not geared at you or anybody in particular on this board. Can we blame the entertainment industry for giving us worse than life examples? ( gotta blame somebody )
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
quote:If it were possible for this kind of language to leave something visible, then some people would have a brown stain from their nose to their toes
LOL and you thought getting fired was incentive... I think your quote just about gave me religion...
& jimmeny cripes... I'm from the gosh darn midwest, & I'd hate to rot in heck! (humor borrowed from a recently posted canadian comedian's skit)
Posted by Jeremy Vecoli (Member # 2278) on :
A young family moved into a house next door to a vacant lot. One day a construction crew turned up to build a house on the lot. The family's six-year-old daughter naturally took an interest in all the activity going on next door. She hung around and eventually the construction workers adopted her as a kind of mascot. They chatted to her and gave her little jobs to do and at the end of the week presented her with a pay envelope containing a dollar.
She took this home to her mother, who said all the appropriate words of admiration and suggested that they take it to the bank the next morning to deposit it in her account. When they went to the bank, the teller was equally impressed, and asked the little girl how she had come by her earnings.
"I've been building a house this week," she replied proudly.
"Goodness!" said the teller. "And will you be building a house next week, too?"
"Yes," answered the little girl. "If we ever get the f--ing bricks."
Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
If ya could not swear, nothing would get done in Glasgow Scotland .
Posted by Jane Diaz (Member # 595) on :
Two young brothers were talking one morning and the oldest said to the youngest, "Hey Joe! I heard some kid's at school swearing the other day and it seemed pretty cool. Why don't we try that on Mom?" "I don't know Ben....Mom probably isn't going to like that." "Aw come on. If I do it will you?" "Well alright, I guess." So the two of them proceed down to the kitchen for breakfast. As the cereal was being served, the oldest said, "Hey Mom, where's the damn corn flakes." Mom in one swoop, picked him up from the table and carried him into the bathroom and washed his mouth out with soap! She stomped back into the kitchen and said to the younger child, "All right, young man. What kind of cereal do you want?" He looked at her and in a shaky voice said, "Well, it sure as hell ain't gonna be corn flakes!!" Posted by Joe Endicott (Member # 628) on :
I have the problem of having a seven year old daughter who hears EVERYTHING. It is amazing to me that she will repeat a phrase that I used weeks before. But what is most amazing is that she consistently uses the phrases and words in the right context. It hard to not be a little proud of her. Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
"Dash blast the goshdarn blankety heck!".....aasaaahhhhhh I feel better now!
Posted by DONALD THOMPSON (Member # 3726) on :
When I was in the Navy, I use to cuss every other word at work. Where do you think the saying came from "cusses like a sailor?" The odd thing was that I didn't cuss at home around my daughter. I made the decision that I would quit cussing totally. I prayed about it for a week and quit. In the last ten years I have said three cuss words. In each case I had been around people that had been cussing alot, and it just came out when I said something in normal conversation. I believe it does affect you when you are around it alot.
On a side note did anyone else hear that the radio and t.v. people have approved the use of the word f**k as long as it isn't use in a sexual content?
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
This topic appears on lots of forums. I've not replied to the question before though. "Do or don't I swear & why?" At school, yes, 'we all' did a little bit. "Bloody" is known as 'The Great Australian Adjective' and was sort of permissable. I then got a job working amongst 16 girls and 14 of them would outswear any bloke I know. After that, I just decided personally, that whatever happens or happened, there were always better words which weren't foul, and were more of an 'intellectual exercise' to try and think of & use, even if you've just hit your thumb with a hammer, ot been stood on by a Clydesdale- it is NOT difficult to NOT swear, honestly- the mind just has to learn to work ahead of the mouth, and the mouth needs to take a deep breath (sometimes a VERY deep breath) and consult the mind first! Maybe some friends consider we're prudish, but that doesn't bother me/us. They seem to hold their tongues in our company which is nice. Really, if you don't consider some occurrence a disaster, then why are you swearing? If you do consider that some awful occurrence is a bad disaster, then rethink it and decide that you ought to be grateful it isn't worse, so you have an occasion to be somewhat happy, rather than cheesed off. We have had a few really nasty tragedies in our life (car double-roll & crash at high speed with brake failure, and house completely burnt down with no insurance, amongst others), but nothing worth swearing about- you can only be grateful that it wasn't worse- life & limb survived both times what more do you need. I also don't enjoy hearing foul language on TV, nor reading it, real or disguised, on the web. Some say it's just the way society is going. I say that's a comment by the lazy who don't want to try and better themselves. Perhaps I'll put some people off with those comments, if so, well, sorry, no offense was or is intended. I'm not here judging people, just answering Lotti's questions with my honest opinions. I was flamed quite rudely on another board for an honest opinion tamer than this one. The only answer to that was to not reply to the response. We can all choose to turn the computer off & get back to work or sleep, can't we! With the aussie dollar at 72c US, my 2c worth will cost me 3.5 c, so there's my 3.5c!
Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
Has anyone ever heard the term "ODDS BODKINS"? I'm told that in the 18th century, this was a terrible slang phrase, much like "HOLY SH**"! Well, all I can say is....ODDS BODKINS!!!!!
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Well, actually, Bob, I have! I think it might stem from the medeival curse phrase "God's Teeth!" or "God's Toenails!" I just don't know where His bodkins are. Seriously, this post has made me strive NOT to swear as much.Thanks,Lotti! Love- JILL
Posted by Rodney gold (Member # 4065) on :
Only the morally hypocritical middle class object to foul language - the poor don't know better and the upper class couldn't care a **** Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Rodney, there's a song I used to know, but for the life of me I've forgotten most of the verses. The chorus went something like "Popcorn, chewing gum, peanuts & bubblegum, **** cream, candy floss & eskimo pie, Agh daddy, how we miss........pepsi cola, ginger beer & Canada Dry!
Never could quite figure out if that kind of cream was swearing or not I suppose it depends on your accent! Best wishes
Posted by David Fisher (Member # 107) on :
Heres a jem from John O'Grady Author of "Their a weird mob" amongst others.
The Integrated Adjective John O'Grady 1965
I was down the Riverina, knockin round the town a bit, An' occasionally restin' with a schooner in me mit; An' on one of these occasions, when the bar was pretty full An' the local blokes were arguin' assorted kinds o' bull, I heard a conversation, most peculiar in its way, Because only in Australia would you hear some joker say, "Where yer bloody been yer drongo? Aven't seen yer fer a week; An yer mate was lookin' for yer when 'e came in from The Creek; 'E was lookin' up at Ryan's and round at bloody Joe's. An even at The Royal where 'e blody never goes" An' the other bloke said, "Seen 'im, owed 'im 'alf a bloody quid. Forgot to give it to 'im but now I bloody did. Coulda used the thing me-bloody-self; been orf the bloody booze, Up at Tumba-bloody rumba shootin' kanga-bloody roos.
Now their voices were a little loud, an' everybody heard The particular integration of this adjectival word. But no one there was laughin', an' me i wasn't game, So I stood around an' let them think I spoke the bloody same. An' one of 'em was interested to ask 'im what he'd got- How many kangaroos he'd bloody went and shot- An' the shootin bloke said, "Things are crook; the droughts too bloody tough; I got forty bloody seven, an' thats good e-bloody-nough." An' this polite rejoinder seemed to satisfy the mob, An' everyone stopped listenin' and got on with the job, Which was drinkin' beer and arguin' an' talkin' of the heat An' boggin' in the bitumen in the middle of the street,; But as for me, I'm here to say the interestin' news Was "Tumba-bloody-rumba shootin' kanga-bloody-roos
Words are tools, the same as computers & brushes, hammers & nailguns or any other analogy you can think of. Personally I enjoy collecting euphemisms, the best (and usually funniest as well as most decriptive) are the more profane. I deal daily with people from all backgrounds and I style my language to suit the circumstances. Education has little to do with general conversation from my experience, perhaps this is a locality thing. I would be wary of assuming any moral high ground based on your use of language though. Or for any reason for that matter. As for the study Todd mentions, the figures don't surprise me, the only conclusion I see are that the people in management positions in that study group showed better language aptitude. Big deal, if they cannot communicate with the people they are in charge of, what good is the supposed advantage. Last but not least, and this is where it comes down to personal preference, its sometimes enjoyable to vent, and to vent using evil, mean and nasty words, whether its a customer, a hammer that just hit your thumb for the third time, or some person that just can't comprehend the meaning of the term "merge" I have a pretty reasonable vocabulary, but for some things the only words that come close to describing how you feel, are the ones that are just gosh darn rude It all comes down to context. David David
Posted by Stephen Broughton (Member # 2237) on :
quote:Originally posted by mike meyer: If ya could not swear, nothing would get done in Glasgow Scotland .
You've been hanging around with Stewart Mac too much mate, my grandmother used to say that "swearing was no excuse for a poor vocabulary", to which my grandfather would reply "Shut up you silly ****ing cow!" so I guess I got it off him, and Billy Connolly wouldn't be funny if he did'nt swear. But now it only happens with me out of frustration or anger.
Posted by jimmy chatham (Member # 525) on :
cussing is because of ignorance. people do not know the right words to use so they swear. Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
yeah that's it... all of us swearing folk are just ignorant...thanks for setting me straight.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
I'm not too sure where I land on this one...
I've got a jagged tounge when I get upset, but usually only then. Also, when your telling a joke, substituting a cuss word with a more watered down version somehow loses the "punch" it originally had.
I guess it all depends on how they are intended and wether the person you speak them to is offended by them.
Last year I had a customer come in who started every third word with the letter "F" and asked him to back off on it. I found it offensive. Not that he meant any ill intent by it, but just because it was distracting.
Words can be harmful, be they swears or not. It's the context and message that remains when all is said and done.
Then again, I'm a S**THEEL anyway, so nevermind. Rapid
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
David... Loved your little poem...reads better than Burns, who alluded to cursewords but was not a Weegian as far as I know? And I love to talk to Stewart...his swearing is part of his charm. Ian...the ***cream reminds me of 20+ years ago when I was a shy Diner waitress. A southern trucker would come in & order coffee, then complain it was too hot and ask for a piece of a** for in it. I told him he would have to marry me first! As for having a big vocabulary, I actually do. Like I mentioned earlier, it just gives me a naughty little thrill to swear sometimes. Love- JILL Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
Foul language is used (mostly by teens) to **** people off that DON'T use foul language! Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
When my oldest boy was little, I had a construction related job and worked around a lot of folks that peppered their speech with cuss words. I developed a potty mouth too, and one day I heard my boy use some foul language. He was f---ing this and that and I sat him down and scolded him good and hard. He said, "Dad, I heard you say that just a while ago!"
I said, "You know what, you're right and that's going to change. We'll help each other." He kind of liked that fact that I admitted I was wrong and needed his help. So we made a deal that if he caught me cussing it would cost me a quarter, and if I caught him it would cost him a nickle. Hey--the kid was too young to make his own money. Anyway he didn't lose one stinking nickle where I lost the farm. In the process I created a monster, because he would pounce on me from behind closed doors or wherever he could and demand payment. If he caught a stranger cussing, he was on him too. I did manage to improve my speech and he has become a wealthy junior vice-president for a fortune 500 company. Sometimes things work out for the best.
Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
You guys are funny!
I occasionally slip, and it's "Gopfertelli", ha ha, I know, makes about as much sense to you as "Odd Bodkins", but my kids understand swiss --ooops. I have an agreement with them, much like Bill. They are allowed to kick me when they hear it from me. They get behind with the punishment, but they never loose track of the score, I think I'm up to 17. Or was it 27?
Posted by Glenn S. Harris (Member # 2190) on :
From now on I'm only going to curse with Conan's language.
"Crom & Steel!"
Jill Beans: an @$$ pirate is a derogatory term for a male homosexual. (:
Posted by Rodney gold (Member # 4065) on :
Hiya Ian It's Called AG PLEEZ DADDY , written by Jeremy Taylor - and it was banned cos he said "VOETSEK" at the end (Which means "bugger off " in Afrikaans.) That song takes me back a while "Ag please Daddy wont you take us to the drive in"..........
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bob Burns: Has anyone ever heard the term "ODDS BODKINS"? I'm told that in the 18th century, this was a terrible slang phrase, much like "HOLY SH**"! Well, all I can say is....ODDS BODKINS!!!!!
Yes Bob, I have heard of that term, and it's interesting that I learned it from a video (computer) game.. "King's Quest".. a looooong time ago, like back when I had a 286! Not that I ever knew what it meant or had a reason to use it..
I'll use four letter words every once in a while, most of the time I don't 'cept when I drop an X-acto on my toe, and sometimes it depends on the present company. If I'm with other people that don't use the language (which includes most of my friends and my immediate family) I don't use it either, which isn't hard to do since I don't normally use those words. If I'm with people that do use them, I might let a few slip, knowing nobody is going to care.
Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
Looked up "bodkin" just for fun---An instrument for putting holes in cloth---a thick blunt needle---a dagger.
FWIW
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
I looked up "Odd".
(Wonder how they got my high school yearbook picture in there... )
Oh well... Rapid
[ November 21, 2003, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: Ray Rheaume ]
Posted by Scott Telfer (Member # 3949) on :
First of all to answer Mike Meyers input..Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ... Glasgow in Scotland is notoriously bad for swearing in that it is now basically part of the language..For the last 2 weeks I have been working alongside Stewart Mclaren doin some decorative work inside a Glasgow Chapel. On arrival at the Site the works foreman met us with the words . Right lads ,,No F"""ing Smoking, No F"""ing Radios and |No F"""ing Swearing.
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
Hey I can turn the air blue with the best of you...but it is totally inapropriate on the bb as far as I'm concerned.
I mentioned this the other night on chat..."When I post on the bb I always proof read it then I make sure I haven't said aany thing my mother couldn't read".
I have invited her to read a few posts and have been embarrassed from tme to time when she remarks about some of the content here.
Since it is a community of sorts it seems odd to me that people think it's ok to swear like it's the norm in in every home and business in their own community...(when we all know it's not).
Oh and I also have stated I steer clear of the "off topic" posts...well this one caught my eye and I checked it out to find it an interesting post and pretty clear of actually swearing.
Interesting to see the confessions...maybe we need a priest in Letterville or maybe a "Cussers AA"
Nice post Lottie oh and if I should come in here cussing one day ...you'll know I'm really hot about something!
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
I wish you %$#%$ wouldn't use such &%#%@ language...it sound like #^$%$# !!!
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
It would be my guess that the term "cussing" is derived from "cursing", as in "may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits".
Or from civil war era: "Devil be jabbers!"
And that "swearing" is derived from empty oaths, as in: I swear to G..." or "cross my heart and swear to die..."
The bible condemns these things, and I think most people have no idea of some of the things they say.
Edit: Also, I'm no major theologian, but it's my understanding that when the bible says: "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain", Vain means emptiness, not just anger. As I said, most people probably have no idea...
[ November 21, 2003, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: James Donahue ]
Posted by Luke Scanlan (Member # 2481) on :
I grew up around garages, and race tracks. Cussing, swearing, etc. is part of the English laguage for me. I do however feel there is a time, and place for it. I also am disgusted by people who use the "gosh darn", "dadgum", "dang", "frickin", "crap", "poop", etc. I feel if you are going to think it, say it! It sounds more stupid to me, than the actual words they are thinking. Which is exactly what they are doing! I'm not saying throw in an F bomb on every sentence, but don't sound like a moron trying to be a "good" person by not swearing. It's a part of every language world wide. It's not going to go away, or disappear. Be sensible, and considerate of others, but don't sound like Mr. Rogers!
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
Luke, I know exactly what you're saying, I'm reminded of the Bob Dylan line: "Why don't you just come out and scream it".
But...
I occaisionaly do that very thing myself, because I'm kidding around,playing naive or I have to be concerned about HIS image, who gave me a new life and is transforming me.
Another way of looking at it is that for some people, who have seen the depths of depravity, like myself in my previous way of (living?), The the use of substitute words shows that I'm being deliberate about choosing other terms. Perhaps still hypocritical...
I've heard other Christians discussing this, and sometimes I think I should just yell "ANGER!" or whatever the emotion of the moment is. Still pondering that one.
Posted by Laura Butler (Member # 1830) on :
Lotti, Its kind of ironic that you would post this question at this time because I have been seriously thinking of leaving letterhead.com because of the language. Its not the language per say but the implications. I find that people on the board don't actually spell out the swear words but use the starting letter and then type in a bunch of puncuation. Its still the same.
In my mind, I start to read a post, read over the abbreviation for a cuss word, and I find in in my head I use/say the actually word. I don't like that. I can't even remember the last time that I swore and I don't want to pollute my brain with it.
Personally, when I aound other people that I hear using the f word, I either leave or I ask them to please not talk like that. I have even said it to people out in the public that use it. To this day, I can't think of anyone that has got upset and let me have it. Most people have apologized or just refrained. I am afraid that there are a few people on this board that if I ever met you in real life and you talked like that in front of me that you might let me have it. The sad part is that they are women.
Let me say to those of you who feel the f word is appropiate for everyday language. I am not going to go into it, but whenever I hear it, I have flashbacks and feelings of things that happened for years, to me as a child. Enough said.
For those of you that don't live in Michigan, you probably didn't heard about the man that was arrested a few years ago for using that word in public. It seems its ILLEGAL to use it and when a man was canoeing down a river and dumped his canoe, he came up repeatedly using it. Other canoers up river testified that they and their children could hear him. A cop was around and arrested him. He actually went to court about it.
[ November 22, 2003, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: Laura Butler ]
Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
I started a two page post? How the .... did that happen? Laura --- I'm KIDDING!
I feel as strongly as you about this issue, but -listen, this is about as profound a statement as you will ever hear from me - we should look beyond the language, and love the person anyway. Love rules. That's right; people are more important than any set of values.
When I think about it, it's actually amazing that most people I meet, willingly adjust their language around me. That shows a great deal of respect and consideration, and I will not jump at them if a swear word slips anyway. Laura, don't give up on the BB yet, the good outweighs the bad by far. Jillybeans, you go girl
James, there's so much more to the third commandment. E-mail me if you like.
All of you, thanks for making this a cool post, keep it coming.
Posted by Alicia B. Jennings (Member # 1272) on :
Being Latin and been raised by a gangster/auto mechanic, I have a tendancy to say some foul things. After I have said them, I always regret it. I don't like to be thought of as a low life, foul mouthed person. It's just another thing I'm working on.
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Hi Rodney, thanks for the translation & spelling fixups. I always pronounced it "Footsack" and usually say it to one of the dogs when they come into the shed/workshop and shake themselves dry all over something I've just wiped clean! I always thought it meant "Clear Off!", which I suppose it does, or "Get out of my way!". ( I was never much good at Africaans.) Fancy them banning the song tho'. I'd have thought it would be over the anise-seed balls & licorice bit, if anything. The rest is pretty harmless, but does remind me of our kids at times! Popcorn, chewing gum....... !
Jill, good one about the icecream!
Posted by Laura Butler (Member # 1830) on :
Luke, I used to swear, using the common swear words. When I became a Christen my language changed. I went from d... to darn to no explertive at all. S... to crap or poop to nothing. It was and is all a process.
Lotti, I am sorry but I am having a hard time believing that feel as strongly about this as I do. If you did, I don't think that you would have started you post like you did.
I hope that we can agree to disagree but Love does not rule. Sin does. Love overcomes not overlooks or ignores it. Christ is Love and he lived his life as a standard for the rest of us. He taught what to value -love people but love his values also.
I love everyone here - I just don't like the language sometimes.
[ November 22, 2003, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: Laura Butler ]
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
ahh yes...when we become hypo-christians everything naughty we've done in the past is erased and we are now on our high and mighty pedestals... barf bag please.... Posted by Laura Butler (Member # 1830) on :
Karyn, I am not a hypo-christen, just a Christen that was willing to take a stand on this topic. I also knew that by opening myself up to others that I was also opening myself up for ridicule.
Christens have the same struggles as everyone else. Our naughty acts are erased at conversion but the struggle starts when we see the need to change from the old ways and values to the new ones.
Karyn, if its not your bag, thats ok. I used to be that way too. I didn't want anyone asking me to go to church, I didn't want to be in the same room when the talk was about God. I didn't want to hear it. When my father-in-law would get talking to me about God, I would politely leave the room. That was his bag not mine. But something happened to my husband and I that made I see things differently.
I know some Christens or so called Christens consider themselves on a pestal. Thats not my problem but theirs. I struggle with changing from loud, pushy, and bosterous to becoming loving, non-critical and gentle. But thats just me, right now. Next week, next month, next year it could be something else that I am trying to overcome.
[ November 22, 2003, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: Laura Butler ]
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I thought when people spoke like beggers, whores or drunks, He washed their feet, not their tongues.
Posted by Laura Butler (Member # 1830) on :
Doug, You are right. He did wash their feet but not their tongues-they did that themselves after seeing the great love that he had for them.
I don't want this post to turn into a missions field so I am done -at least I am going to try to be done. (like I said, I am trying not to be pushy but I have a long way to go).
If people want to ridicule me for my stand, thats their problem. My original intention was to hopefully have people see one reason why it is offensive to others.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
It was not my intention to judge your beliefs Laura. I have not really voiced my feeling on this topic yet, but I find the many views expressed so far to be interesting. They all vary so much that no one could agree with every view here. Personally I dont agree that "sin rules" I think people choose what to ascribe power to in their lives. I think two people can feel equally strong about offensive language in general, while their choosen threshold of what is "offensive" differs.
Hell is not a foul word in my book.... saying "how in **** did I start a 2 page post" hardly seems to be an indication of the level of ones convictions re: propriety
Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
**** ***
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
Hmmmmmmmm... Expletive in anger,... many do it. Expletives in normal conversation.... Either you feel the need for attention or you need to clean up your act. Virtually none of the people in our business or personal circles use unneccesary expletives in conversation. Easier behind a keyboard, isn't it. Do you use them at Letterhead meets? Am I an angel? Ask Lyn about her "dirty word jar". She nearly has enough for her BMW by this time, of course that's around 15 years worth.
Posted by Laura Butler (Member # 1830) on :
Doug, I didn't think that you were judging me. And as far as Lotti's post of "how in the ... did I start a 2 page post". Every time I read it, in my mind I put a different swear word there. In fact the word hell never accured to me.
Pierre, That reminds me of a joke I just heard.
An old woman was on her death bed and her husband of 50+ years was next to her. As they spoke words that might be her last ones, the husband asked her about that little box that she kept in her closet. She had always told him that he wasn't supposed to look in it.
She told him that it was time the she showed him what was in it and asked him to go get it. He tenderly carried it in and opened it. Inside there were 2 doilies and $5,000. He asked her why 2 doilies and $5000. She told him that everytime she got upset with him, she would crochet a doilie. He commented on there being only 2 doilies there and on her only being upset with him twice. He then asked about the money. She told him that was what she earned from selling her doilies.
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
Well this post sure went to the Sh*****se quicker than h*ll in a handbasket. And for those that seemed to have advanced to lettervilles braille program, i guess that would read something like **** **** **** **** **** ** *** ********* ******* **** **** ** * **********.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
$10 bucks says thats the exact word she was thinkin' ... see, the kind of people I hang around help me to be able to figure out stuff like that No, seriously, I would not use foul language at a meet, or outside of anger or frustration, I would rarely use foul language, & even if "hell" bothered someone, I would attempt to respect their feelings when choosing my words.
The response I have been intending to add to this thread is sort of a confession. I get angry and/or frustrated with my computers on almost a daily basis. I have spoken to a therapist about this on many occassions because I release this emotion by cursing loudly and repeatedly. I am not proud of this behavior. I have been surprised to notice when others are around, I am somehow able to contain myself, but the rest of the time I really lose it. My neighbors have no doubt heard me through the walls WAY too many times. I was recently "busted" by a State employee who has given me an abundance of very valuable work, when he approached the door, just as an expensive computer failure had occured. Fortunantly he laughed & said he does the same thing
I am so neurotically driven to keep my life orderly & predictable, that I have great difficulty dealing with random malfunctions out of my control. Especially if they cost me time & money, or cause me to not meet a committment such as a deadline.
I imagine I will someday just raise this concern to the priority level where I will find a way to take controll of this dark corner of my life... till then I hope none of you walk in for a surprise visit when the gremlins are out. Posted by Laura Butler (Member # 1830) on :
Doug, The next time that the computers go and you go bezerk, take a deep breathe and ask yourself "if this is the hill you want to die on."
Whenever my husband and I get in a augment and I want to end it and he wants to keep it going, I ask him the same thing - "is this the hill you want to die on?
ps.Gavin you are so funny.
[ November 23, 2003, 01:07 AM: Message edited by: Laura Butler ]
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Gotta agree with Doug on this one. I really don't believe our language will have much bearing on our destinations after this life. To me a person's actions are much more important then the words that come out of their mouth.
Having said that, I also believe there is a time and a place for everything. We're all adults here in Letterville. We're also business people. Many of us are parents. I'm no prude, but I would like to think my kids and grandkids could read this BB without running into language I would be ashamed of them hearing me use.
The same goes for chat. It can get pretty wild in there at times. Over the years, many of us have become regulars. We know and respect each others expectations regarding behavior. With so many new Letterheads joining in Letterville Chat these days it is imperative that we recognize who is on channel and conduct ourselves properly. That includes yours truely.
I want to thank Lotti for bringing this subject up. It has nothing to do with what your religious beliefs are. The language we use in a public forum is all about respect and tolerance towards our neighbors. I can't see how anyone could argue otherwise?
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Slight change of course here
quote: "may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits".
Do many remember the cartoon in signcraft with the curse "May the eternal sands of the Sahara blow across your freshly coated boards"? Such enjoyably colourful phraseology!
and Doug, May the capacitors of your monitor forever hold their just charges...! Best wishes
P.S. Doug, My wife gets angry with this computer, but that's only because of the time I spend on the BB! It's not the fault of the computer. (edited to add the PS)
[ November 23, 2003, 01:26 AM: Message edited by: Ian Stewart-Koster ]
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
you talkin 'bout my Heart monitor??
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Laura,
I can well relate to your views on launguage.
From personal experience, I have often had battles with the usage of "foul" or "obsecene" language having been married to someone very strong in her religious beliefs, also a Christian.
I think the true nature of what defines such language is how it is used in context and the level of tolerance the person hearing has for it.
Admittedly, the current changes in public usage of it (TV shows, "Shock Jock" radio shows, literature and in common conversation) have made the frequency of cussing more prevalent, but I think it has also watered down the words themselves.
"Odds Bodkins" is a fine example of this. Although originally intended as a cuss, over time it has lost that impact. I've heard the term over the years, but never in deaming or vicious context.
George Carlin's original "Seven Words You Can't Say on Telivision" has dwindle down to about four over the years. How many of those words are commonplace on commercial TV today? Originally a comedic jab at censorship, it became quite well known because of the state of television censorship at that time and had almost become a "Call to Arms" for those who argued for freedom of speech in the broadcasting industry.
I'm a firm believe in the right to freedom of speech and freedom of religion. They were the driving force that created the country I live in. I also am respectful of how those religions and words are entiled to be used or practiced by those around me under the same Constitutional rights.
Without trying to sound pontious, I think the true obscenity in this world is the situation in the Middle East and in other places where the "My God is better than your God" mentality between religious beliefs results in the killing of innocent people. Historically, it has been the root of almost every war ever fought.
As I read the last few posts and got to Steve's, I half expected that he was going to close this one down.
Glad he hasn't, but if he should, it's his website and his tolerance level should be noted.
I think we finally located the fire extinguishers on a post (pun intended)...and this one didn't go up in flames.
Nice! Rapid
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Man, I have been following this thread way too much because last night I dreamed about Doug Allen! Seriously! And no, it did not contain any sex or swearing...just a visit to his shop in Hawaii. Also, thank you to the two Heads who emailed me to explain what an pirate is...I am gonna wash that kid's mouth out with soap as soon as I can catch him! There, Laura, I used a smiley! And I am a Christian too...now I need to go to confession for swearing so much and talking dirty in Chat. Love- JILL
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
The FCC has just determined that the "F" word can be used in non-sexual situations on open network TV. There is a site for voting and emails, but I'll have to go find it again. I sent a strongly worded email voicing my opinion against that decision. All of this crap is desensitizing chldren, slowly but surely. With the rash of ram-it-down-your-throat homsexual TV programming and "Ellen" typ talk shows on network TV and MTV, I truly believe that its only a matter of time before the American Family and childrens' values begin to sunset. And you DON'T have to be "Christian" to recognize that this growing acceptance of filth is merely the prelude to the complete dissipation of morals in children and young adults. Think your continued use of the "F" word around your kids goes unnoticed? Think again, suckers.
Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
Whenever I get the urge to "cuss", I always think of a line I heard in a movie. "Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?" I've been very guilty of foul language all my life. Im not proud of that, and decided recently to change that. Now when I get mad, I use other words. Actually some of the ones on Lukes "moron" list. Poop is one of my favorites. Also crap, dang it, and heckfire. IF that sounds like a moron, then so be it. You can say anything you want to about cussing, but one thing is for sure, and dont kid yourself, it sounds nasty and vulgar. It is an extremely bad habit and one that needs to be controlled. There are other ways of letting off steam. I have a few friends that cuss all the time. The f word is a part of their daily language. But when their in my shop, I ask them to keep it turned off. Try this one. Take a tape recorder and tape yourself letting off a string of the bad words, then play it back. Thats the best way to see how you sound when you do it. Taint pretty is it dadgum it.
Posted by Laura Butler (Member # 1830) on :
Steve, You hit the nail n the head. It has to do if respect and tolerence not just to their neighbor but also respecting themselves.
If the f word is used, I will say something politely or leave the room. If G..D... is used I will usually say to the person something like - "if you didn't tell God to damn it, it would probably work out ok." They usually look at me with an awareness to what they just said.
Pierre, Please let me know when you find that website.
John, I love that line. I'll be able to use that.
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
quote: Lotti, I am sorry but I am having a hard time believing that feel as strongly about this as I do. If you did, I don't think that you would have started you post like you did.
Actually Laura, having spent a week this summer working with Lottie, I think you are wrong about this. She is, however, not a judgemental person and would never force her opinion on someone else. She comes across as a person who is strong and secure in her faith and very accepting of others rights to their beliefs. Never once did she try to preach to me, and believe me we talked about almost everything. She has my utmost respect for that.
Posted by Steve Manning (Member # 3947) on :
I've been known to let a few go now and then but it's mostly when I'm upset and out of control. For the most part I make a special effort not to use it as a colorful way expression. You never know who's around the corner. My wife has a problem, she knows it though, we've had discussions about it. My Dad drank alot when I was growing up and most of the time when he was feeling loose so was his mouth. It was to the extent that I was afraid to bring my girlfriends to the house. I guess I'm a little old fashioned when it comes to being foul mouthed around ladies and my elders, I was raised in the 60's, we did not ever dare say anything around our parents. My son, whose about to be a father himself, I hope will realize that, he tends to let them fly no matter where he is. I contribute that to the way society has made it alright to do just about anything anymore. A friend emailed me the other day and said the he was given some information that the FCC had approved the use of the "F" word on TV. If that's so where does it stop?
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
Steve, did you read any of the posts above yours??
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
I came from a family that didn't swear at all. I guess the words don't come out naturally for me because I didn't grow up with it, I'm not sure.
My husband is another story. His parents flew off the handle alot (still do) and cuss words hit the wall like gangbusters. Hubby has a potty mouth when pushed, or hanging out with the guys at work. He's been off work for abit and is less likely to go at it, but I can tell when he's been at work with the guys. But he does have the ability to turn it off when appropriate, like in front of my mom and Cody. LOL!
I'll admit I'm no angel myself at times. It takes a concentrated effort to actually say offensive words and I use it if I absolutely HAVE to get an important point across to hubby because in HIS world I really mean business when it's used! Sad but true.
As for others using it, I don't take offence in it at all from people I respect. You know the type, good people that are ticked at something and it slips on occasion. Those that use it every other word, well, that's another story.
Karyn, I don't mean to single you out but I'm going to single you out for a good reason. Your posting has so much darn character and spunk. You say your mind without offending anyone directly. I love reading your thoughts on topics and your posts always bring a smile to my face. Nope, you don't offend me at all. Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
A few thoughts that sprung to mind when I forced myself to read through the BS here...
What is a Christen?
Freedom OF religion includes freedom FROM religion.
The bible-thumping, self-proclaimed "good christians" I grew up knowing, proved to be the biggest hypocrites on the planet. Somehow, those that truly believed and followed their religions didn't find it necessary to force bible quotes on everyone around them. I've always wondered if those that do quote are trying to force their religion on everyone else or trying to prove to themselves that they're a good christian because they can memorize lines. I've had intelligent religious conversations with true believers that involved discussions of their beliefs and bible passages and their meanings rather than just quoting lines. Those that I respect for their religious beliefs would never once insult another over their beliefs or play the "I'm more devoted than you" game. That has to be the biggest hypocrisy of all.
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
Oh yeah!?! Well...... I have it on good authority that if YOU wear those "lay me down" high heels just ONE MORE TIME>>>>>>>> You're going straight to he double toothpicks!!
heh...........
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
AND ...... this one has been fun, but I'm back on the medical merry-go-round with Pooh as of tomorrow, so............ Later, folks. I'll be back when I can.
Posted by John Martin Robson (Member # 1686) on :
Quoting AA Milne is so much cooler than quoting scripture.........your my hero Kelly. Anyone can quote scripture, but can you quote Pooh.
Swearing is an art, some can and others shouldn't..........when used in anger, it often sounds vulgar, as a superlative it can be marvelous.
cuss......is such a dainty word for describing vulgarity. Please stop using it. It offends me
[ November 23, 2003, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: John Martin Robson ]
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Cussing CAN be an art form! My father came from the 'old counrty' ...and it was considered an art! When p***ed off, he could cuss for 20 minutes, solid, and never repeat himself!
On the other hand, he would never swear in fron of womenor kids!
Yes! I do let loose with a few ephitets, on occasion. BUT, normally, the "spikes" in my language, depend on the group that I am cnversing with. I also agree with what Kissy has to say!
Posted by david drane (Member # 507) on :
First of all, let me say that I and my wife are definately not prudes. Several years ago I put a post here about the same subject. I had a male client who gave me quite a considerable amount of work. He thought that that gave him the right to talk utter filth interlaced with foul language in front of my wife. As I got to the point of getting fed up with his style rather than pick him up on it I started to raise his accounts each month as I didn't care wether I had his work or not. What really surprised me at the time I posted was the replies I got here. Nobody seemed disturbed and I was made to look like an old fuddy-duddy. As someone else here reported here those of us that were bought up in the 60's had a different set of values.
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
Maybe I'm 2 stoopid here but I'm trying to figure this out: It seems as though the only way to have freedom from r******n is to have no r******n, thus no freedom of r******n.
Put the same equation in another context: The only way to have freedom from speech would be to have no speech, thus no freedom of speech.
This has been done in the past, Those that forget history are bound to repeat it. More people have been killed in the 20th century than all others. The very great majority of the killing has been done by anti-theists. Remember Hitler? He thought r******n was for weaklings. His hero, Nietzsche, said "God is dead". Hitler killed millions, but he pales by comparison to the communists, they've killed far more. I'm not making this up, it takes little research to reveal it. And you know what? Those are the same wonderful folks that vehemently oppose freedom of speech. Most wars are fought for conquest, greed, plain and simple, not "my religion is better than your religion." Do you suppose "W" went into Iraq because his religion was better than theirs? There are some lucrative contracts that might persuade you otherwise. When the communists were at the height of their power,they had the dreaded "purges". They felt that they needed a new breed of pure communists, free from any exposure to the ways of the past. So they began hauling off all kinds of people, even those who had fought for the red revolution.
So if you want freedom from religion, you'll need to eliminate freedom of speech, and just be careful of the monster you create. It may come after YOU.
Those that forget history are bound to repeat it. Have fun. Note to self: go to garage and get out the asbestos suit, I think I'm gonna need it.
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
I'm getting ready for bed, thinking more about CONSISTENCY. Someone quotes a bible verse, and another person yells in agony, like bamboo shoots under the fingernails. But everyday people let offensive things go by without a word. I'm reminded of a recent comment: "I'm riding the cotton pony". This on a website frequented by no less than graphic artists, who if they're like me, tend to think in terms of pictures as much as in words. Well gee, thank you so much honey, but couldn't we at least hold hands or something before becoming that intimate???
But I didn't say a word. Hey far out whatever, You didn't see me getting angry. Seems like a big inconsistency, maybe the word is hypocrisy, but no, that word is reserved for Christians only.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
This post has more than ran it's course. Once the subject of religion was brought up, it was doomed. Religion, politics and other moral issues are something people cannot and will never agree on. Sooner or later the posts stop adressing the original queston and go off in another direction. The finger pointing starts and the posts become personal. It's time to close this one off.
Looking back over the whole post, I feel we all agree that we can and should all make an effort to tone down our language. Now let's get back to our real business here in Letterville.
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i know i don't do it to impress anyone because i swear out loud when i'm alone...obviously i have issues...lol! i do have a kind heart to go with my big bad potty mouth...i must be an enigma ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
( gotta blame somebody ![[FYI]](graemlins/fyi.gif)
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His parents flew off the handle alot (still do) and cuss words hit the wall like gangbusters. Hubby has a potty mouth when pushed, or hanging out with the guys at work. He's been off work for abit and is less likely to go at it, but I can tell when he's been at work with the guys. But he does have the ability to turn it off when appropriate, like in front of my mom and Cody. LOL!![[Thanks]](graemlins/thanks.gif)