What do you think I should make/hr or salart in a 3 person shop. I am the production manager.
The Following are responsibilities I currently handle.
1. Estimate and place walk-in and telephone orders. 2. Handle many orders from design to pick-up or installation. 3. Detailed measuring of vehicles for vinyl graphics, vehicle wraps and on-site projects with graphic needs. 4. Reproduce in Vector format logo’s and provided layouts. 5. Coordinate deadlines with Manager for work in production, and Installation. 6. Coordinate file set-up with Designers for production of jobs. 7. Set-up files for large format printing, and Screen Printing. 8. Troubleshoot workstations and repair minor computer and software problems. 9. Maintain a current back-up drive of all job files once weekly. 10. All phases of Production, Set-Up, Cutting, Weeding, Masking, Building, and Trimming vinyl graphics for pick-up and Installation. 11. Order Production materials and shop supplies. 12. All types of installation, post and panel, stud mounted letters, u-channel posts, surface and blind mounted signs, illuminated sign faces. 13. Vehicle wrap installation and trimming (min of 18.5 S.F./hr with relief cuts and trim out.)
The following are areas that I have knowledge in.
1. File formats for production raster and vector. 2. Large format input and output resolution, interpolation etc. 3. Design and production software programs, Composer, FlexiSign, Photoshop, Illustrator, Etc. 4. Materials, substrates, films, foils, costs, Etc.
Thanks, Brian Caissie
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
You are overqualified Brian. You should be fired and replaced with three minimum wage dolts.
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
But that would still leave about half of those things not getting done. To me, the guy that goes out on installations in that hot Sarasota sun should get whatever it takes to keep him coming back!
As a former employer, it was always about how much money the individual could make for ME. It sounds like you have a lot of control over what is charged and how efficiently it gets produced. If the profit margins are healthy, (and there is ample work flow), you are in line for whatever the till can bear. The owner wants to make a certain percentage, but at some point, the overage is up for grabs. If you can document how you personally generate the additional profit, you could talk me into sharing it with you.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
You're technically not a Production Manager.
They gave you the title of Production Manager, but in reality you still have the "dolt's" job.
Managers manage things. Idealy they have the knowledge to do the things they are hired to manage, but shouldn't have to actually *do* them except in a pinch. Seems your job is just to be one of the grunts and they gave you a title to make you feel self important.
That being said, I couldn't begin to tell you what you should be making because there are a lot of variables at play.. the local market, the sales and actual income figures, etc.
I'd love to tell you you should be making $60,000/year, but the reality is unless the shop is grossing a million or more per year that's just not realistic.
What do you think you are worth? How much $$ are you making the company? How much $$ are you saving the company? If you make demands for more money, what are you going to offer them in return? The company doesnt care how much you make, they only care about THEIR bottom line.
And no matter how much you know, no matter how important you think you are to the company, you're still an employee and you can always be replaced.
Posted by Joe Endicott (Member # 628) on :
quote: You're technically not a Production Manager.
They gave you the title of Production Manager, but in reality you still have the "dolt's" job.
Geez, Mike. A little harsh & I gotta disagree. Sounds like he is "managing" the production. You don't have be the overseer of people or employees below you to be considered "manager". I am the design/production manager at my shop. That certainly doesn't mean that I don't design and produce jobs myself. I also keep a couple of other guys as busy as I can doing what needs to be done.
I could not work for a company whos managers only "managed" others. I know that is the way it is in some professions, but I have never come across that in a small commercial sign shop.
Brian, as far as your worth, it is very hard to put a figure on it. It depends on where you are geographically (for instance a $30,000 per year job in one place is worth $45,000 in another place) and on the shop you are in. You are worth different amounts to different companies.
At our shop we generally start a new employee at a relatively low pay rate. But as they prove themselves, the pay goes up accordingly.
I know it doesn't help much, but...... Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Hiya Brian, If you search any employment info. web site, they'll tell you that you should be making between $40,000 and $100,000, more or less. There's many variables to consider though. Most vinyl shops would not support a $40k a year salary for any position. You'll probably end up making more than the owner and put the company into bankruptcy. Also, For me to justify a $40k salary for an employee, you would have to produce, error free, at least $160,000 a year worth of retail sales. As a manager, I'm supposed to be able to make those numbers higher and make the company more profitable from a production point of view. Net profit should be around 25-40%. Just my 2˘
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Glenn S. Harris (Member # 2190) on :
This might not help much. I'm in Louisiana, where pay is the LOWEST (except maybe Miss.). Most people in your position are making about $10 per hour here. I do everything (litterally) in my shop except write the checks, pay bills, & close sales & I make $12 per hour. I think there might be a couple guys in the big electric shops making more than that & maybe one or two in either design, production, or management that make a bit more here & there, but not many employees in the sign trade here, make more than $10/hr no matter what they do.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
It's not all about $$ per hour. What about safe working conditions, company paid insurance, cell phone, cash bonuses, respect from ownership, freedom to flex the schedule on occasion, paid holidays and vacations. Lunch and other occasional fringies.
I treat my people the way I want to be treated. Yes, it costs more money, but I always want to be remembered as an exceptional employer. If my people change jobs, it will be a tough decision.
Posted by Steve Nuttle (Member # 2645) on :
Wow Brian sounds like you have my job! I am also a an overpaid "dolt". For the last 1 1/2 years I have done just about what you have with the same title. I know they gave it to me to make me feel better and to have someone to blame when the pooh hits the fan. Having said that I can tell you that I am currently making $15.00/hr and working on average 55-60 hours a week.
About the only thing I don't do is the major design work, which the current owner wants to keep control over. I am "allowed" to layout simple stuff but most of the design work goes to her. The rub is when I sell a $10,000 job and then the clients calls 4 or 5 weeks later and wants to know where the layout is. Oh well!
Things in our shop are getting ready to change drastically in the next several weeks. The owner and her husband are splitting up and she is moving to TX. He is buying her half of the shop and wants to keep it going. I will probably end up running it for him. He has no clue about sign making but is a good business man.
Any way I am rambling now. All of the other replies are right on. Depends on the area and many, many things. Just wanted you to know you are not alone and what a "production manager" in Jackson Hole makes.
Good luck and best regards.
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
The last "real job" I had was a journeyman signpainter...it paid $11 an hour...Jimmy Carter was in the White House.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Joe, I'm not saying Brian is a dolt, I'm saying he's got the dolt's job, compounded with management duties. I'm "thinking bigger".. I know many companies have managers doing the gruntwork but that doesn't mean they're using those people to the best of their potential. If a manager has to oversee everyone else, it means they're getting double-duty because they also have to produce work that the grunts were hired to do. I've not only worked in places on both sides of the coin, I've been management in both cases.
Managers that are required to multitask take 4 times as long to complete their tasks because they can not give undivided attention to any one task, between management tasks, production tasks, employees with questions... throw in handling sales, bids, deliveries, etc and productivity in any one task goes down the toilet but you have someone else barking in your ear "Why isnt that done!?! Where's this?!? Where's that?!?!"
I'm sure that's why Brian is posting here in the first place. He's got the grunt's job, plus his own set of special tasks, he's feeling pulled in 10 different directions and I'll bet he's not being compensated for the headache either.
Having been there before, I know it doesn't change unless you initiate the change. Ask for a raise, or more benefits, or reduced workload, or leave.
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike Pipes: The company doesnt care how much you make, they only care about THEIR bottom line.
Cool way of putting it, and so true. I really don't care at all how much an employee is paid, as long as the company is safe and profitable. I would LOVE to pay someone big bucks, cuz that would mean he was making $$ for me.
The empoyer's greatest fear is getting stung by high payroll when profits ease off for whatever reason. (Well, my greatest fear anyway). Brian, if you can make your pay contingent on overall company profit, you could write your own ticket. I've never had an employee who was willing to take a pay cut when things were slow.
Posted by Joe Endicott (Member # 628) on :
When you put it that way, I see what you're saying, Mike. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
In all honesty, what you related in this last post is exactly my current job situation. I know just how frustrating it can be. And that's without trying to deal with the new lovely bombshell my employer dropped on my today. I just wanna make signs. Managing sucks.
Posted by Mike Clayton Graphics (Member # 723) on :
Hi Brian,
There are a few things you have left out...
Do you have benefits? does your shop have a 40 hour + work week?
I'm sure you are capable of doing all the things you listed, but, are they required every week? every month? once a year? That does not make you less valuable, just needs to be considered in the equation.
Are you a salary employee, or hourly?
Your knowledge is worth a great amount, don't sell yourself short. But, without knowing all the in's and out's, i cannot tell you an answer.
MC
Posted by Mark Matyjakowski (Member # 294) on :
HAHAHA, a production manager who just "manages" in a 3 man shop ... WTF good is that.
Let me see if I got this straight ... 3 man shop... 1 manager (duty #5) 1 production manager What's the guy doing all the work making ... hahaha
I'm joking, I know exactly what it's like being the go to guy in a 6-7 man shop ... I don't take a label as there isn't a duty (shop duty) beneath me or over my head ... the label alone aint gonna feed my family anywho.
I can't answer what you should make. Wann'a make more money, hustle up some more work.
Posted by Jeremy Vecoli (Member # 2278) on :
I feel that as an employee, my quality/productivity should dictate my hourly wage, not company profits, since that is not totally under my control. If my boss underbids something, and has me do the work, the fact that was no profit is HIS problem. My work had the same value. I did the work, pay me. I am an employee, not a stockholder.
During my last salary negotiation, I explained that my hourly value exists independently from rising or falling profits, and if it was slow, I would rather have my hours cut back instead of my hourly wage. Keep that in mind if the boss says the profits don't justify your desired raise.
Posted by Steve Nuttle (Member # 2645) on :
Well said Mike. That's exactly how it is in our shop and it's killing us!
Mark M. I agree...wtf? It's just a title and the bottom line is, to have the shop profitable, employees happy and productive, put out a great sign and continue learning in the process.
Seems so simple but in real life it ain't always that way.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I think a person effective at rising up in a signshop to the point where they are handling so many of the inter-related tasks from maintaining inventory & customer consultations (selling/designing)to actual production & bookkeeping is probably only able to do all these things well becuase they have not only the talent & apptitude for this, but on some level, I believe one must have a satisfaction that comes from seeing all the parts of the puzzle & a desire to be "in on" the entire process.
I don't think anyone could get good at co-ordinating all those aspects of the business unless they like to. In other words, I don't think Brian would really be fulfilled being ONLY the sales guy, or ONLY the production guy.
I also think anyone like this will NEVER make what they are worth as an employee, because they have the ingredients of a successfull business owner who should directly benefit financially from every good business decision & every effecient movement.
The flip side of that equation is to ask how much the freedoms (as mentioned above) that are enjoyed as an employee are worth. Take that magic number of what you are "worth" & subtract the value (to you) of the financial risk you don't incur, & the additional stress of not carrying the entire burden of the consequences of each days business home with you each night. (not that your loyalty doesn't force you to worry about deadlines you've promised, or cost over-runs on bad bids... but believe me, your level of carrying these burdens are still less as an employee)
Subtract those freedoms value from your optimal "worth" & you get exactly what you are now being paid... because you know you could do better by giving up those freedoms & doing it yourself, but right now you are staying where you are, making what you make... by choice.
Like my tag line says... "you get what you settle for" I found I could never feel equitably compensated as an employee, & I finally quit settling for it.
I slept on a couch at the shop twice this week, because I often work till 3, then drive home... but I usually arrive late the next day. I found I can work till 4, or whenever I really drop from exaustion past the point of safe driving... but then I'm up & open early because the phone rings, or people show up. If I really want to get caught up in times of taking on almost more jobs then one man can ever do alone, this stratagy seems to help. & I really don't despise it... I do it to myself, not always, but often & it is a fun addition to the juggling act that Brian is already taking on, because it pays really well to do the work of 2 men for a while, plus I have found I can also slow down the whole train by watching my comittments, & then have some 3 day weeks to do huge home improvement projects (my idea of a vacation )
Posted by Mike Pulskamp (Member # 3475) on :
Anybody think it out backwards? Start with housing. People who do ditch digging and burger slinging live someplace. Most rent(often spliting rent). Rent in your neck of the woods for somebody in that strata is $xxx.xx/ month. People with skills/crafts either rent better/bigger places or own. That costs $xxx.xx. People with special "Professional" skills and small biz owners often break out from that strata into nicer more costly areas with bigger houses with mortgages from $xxx.xx to $xxxx.xx/month. People that own bigger businesses and take bigger profits are in even higher cost housing. At the top of that heap are people that only have money working for them. I don't know much about how they live but it ain't cheap.
What strata do you belong in? Now each of these gets broken down farther. Use the technique for your car and the rest of your lifestyle too. Talk to a bank loan officer they can tell you the % each of these things should take from your income. Work it out backwards and you should know what you should make.
Try it.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
Does anyone else see a uncanny resemblence between Mike Pulskamp and Cledus T Judd?
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