I feel confident that there's nothting to worry about but, here I am on Letterhead to ask the pros.
I fabricated and installed 3 billboards last month for a business using their corporate colors. Went to Avery right away and found the premium A9 vinyl(lets not debate 3M and such please) as well as the proper PMS color no.354 Clover Green. Yesterday. My client (manager) got a comment from ONE PERSON-work associate (you know, that person with nothing better to do)that he thought the vinyl color was not right and it in fact looks lighter-limier than their trucks that were hand lettered 10 years ago. Well, there is a SLIGHT uproar now. I quickly e-mailed back followed by an immediate phone call personally to state my same confidence in my product. He was asking about dye lots and such but after 10 minutes or so, he said that he didn't think it was any big deal (again, hearing my re-assuredness and confidents). Now I am here for that same re-assureness. What's your experiences with matching vinyl-EXACTLY!
As always, thank you for your responses.
Posted by Matty McQuilkin (Member # 4156) on :
Corey, Some of the vinyl manufactured such as Avery, 3M have some standard colors that are close to PMS colors, none to my knowledge are an exact match. When a customer wants a pms color I always send them a sample of the colors we are going to use, and get them to sign off on them. That way we cover our Butts. Both the above manufactures will do custom matches for large projects and will produce custom colors, but the volumes are large.
Posted by Peter Schuttinga (Member # 2821) on :
Tell them that you matched colours exactly, but did not match up against 10 year old faded paint on the trucks. Suggest to them that there is no vinyl that matches 10 year old paint, but if it is a concern then maybe it is time to freshen up the corporate fleet. Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Hiya Corey, For a vinyl color like Avery's A9 series to be labeled as a Pantone® color, it must meet Pantone's® color standards. Naturally, there are issues addressed in Avery's color chart, such as applying vinyl to dark surfaces, etc. I like Peter's approach on this dilemma. It's time to update their fleet graphics...
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
I have a Pantone Formula Guide and the Avery Pantone Chart. The color is pretty much dead on. I'd be pursuing the vehicle upgrades too. Although there could be minimal color differences in lots I doubt it would be visible unless side by side.
Posted by Henry Barker (Member # 174) on :
I think matching PMS (printing colours with vinyl is always going to be tough.
Here is a link to one of our Avery suppliers, click on "folier" once you come in on the site, you will then see Avery products on the leftside click on them and you get a pantone equivalent to all of the range, I am not sure how the european numbers are against those in the US but it might be a help in the future.
Yep yep, convince them that their trucks are the problem, as they cannot possibly match the pantone guide after 10 years of being on the road.
Pantone is so outdated.. guess it worked ok a long time ago but these days everyone is going to full color digital printing presses, which dont even have spot color capabilities.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
I think your client should be more concerned with the amount of money they are wasting on paying someone who has nothing better to do than decide whether brand new vinyl & 10 year old paint are the exact some shade. Obviously, this person isn't serving any useful purpose. If they get rid of this waste of oxygen, the salary they save will pay to have that fleet of trucks updated.
If it were a vinyl logo you were adding to 10 yr old painted trucks, then I might be more concerned with exact color match (actually, I'd push for updating the old lettering). Is this billboard at ground level and are they planning on parking the vans right up against it? If not, who is gonna notice the difference?
Posted by Corey Wine (Member # 1640) on :
The billboarsd are 2stories up on a wall. I e-mailed the a9 link to them and told them I would produce a more 'concrete' color chart with the actual PMS 354 vinly on there.
It really chaps my ass..... Years ago, I painted a "holiday" window and (knowin that in California that you CANNOT put X-mas or Happy Hainika but rather-"neutral messages like...HOLIDAY GREETINGS, SEASONS GREETINGS, HAPPY HOLIDAYS) as to not offend the masses.
After a few weeks of Splashes, we decide to mix it up even more and put, "HAVE A COOL YULE!" on a car dealer window.....you know those windows that those salespeople look out of each and every day on their 14th cup of coffee in hopes for a sale when, 1 day the GM walks in and a saleman/peer says, "Hey Frank, what the hell does have a cool yule mean.....sounds dumb". We were back within the hour to scrape itoff and put up HAPPY HOLIDAYS. End of story...
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Maybe it's just me, but I just don't get it.
When a customer comes in looking for an exact color match in vinyl lettering, I just show them a chart, usually one with about 150 colors on it. It usually manages to overwhelm them sufficiently enough to realize that vinyl only comes in the color the manufacturers make and can't be changed to fit thier needs as precisely as they would wish. They usually are happy with as close a match as possible. I let them make the choice.
If it's absolutely gotta be a dead match on the color, paint you can mix. Vinyl, you can't. Rapid
Posted by Corey Wine (Member # 1640) on :
but Avery - A9 IS Pantone color matched vinyl. Their chart HAS #354 which IS my customers no. What's the problem (besides that one guy)?
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
My PMS book isn't handy at the moment but I recall it has a disclaimer that the colors in the book can shift and they recommend purchasing a new book every year--wouldn't you if you could sell them for as much as they get? If you can't trust your PMS book which is quite protected from the light for most of its existence, you surely cannot make a decision based on 10 year old faded paint.
I think someone's work associate needs to get a life. The problem may be convincing your client without getting anyone's dander up. I like the idea of approaching him with the truck lettering. Tell him you can match the trucks exactly to the billboard.
Posted by ScooterX (Member # 2023) on :
Corey,
Checkers is right -- don't listen to the other guys. the A9 series is Pantone-licensed. by its definition, those colors ARE the pantone colors. they have to be produced to Pantones specs. the paint has faded and is no longer up to spec.
If you customer had asked you to "match this old paint" you should have matched the old paint. But, since your customer asked you to provide a particular Pantone color, then what you did is correct.
There is a certain amount of color variance that pantone allows, but its not something an ordinary person would notice (except in the case of 4 and 6 ink process color printing).
Pantone is NOT just "printing" colors. It is a cross-platform integrated system that includes plastics (hard and soft plastics), fabrics and fabric dyes, printing inks, and (now) computer display calibrations.
Pantone makes its money by providing customers with consistent color for branding and identity. People pay to have the PMS color number! The A-9 series is the only licensed PMS color series - Avery's other vinyls are not pantone colors (even if they match or are very close).
Click here for Pantone.com Posted by Danny Busselle (Member # 3746) on :
Hay Cory Look Man this is easy. Make a sample First.. White Vinyl. Then Match the PMS Color you Need Make about a 1/4 pt. Next is to clean the Vinyl very well. and Mix a Litte of Buxch Antons Super Frog to the color that you are going to Spray the white Vinly with. Now you have the PMS color that the customer wants Go Show Them Get your Pat on your Back and Finish the Job, Yes Your Welcome , It Sounds Harder than it is Don't be afraid. This works every Time and the color will not Chip Crack or Peel If you add Frog Juice. Posted by Tim Doyle (Member # 3548) on :
Hi Corey,
Just to let you know, the colors in our A9 series are approved by Pantone. Our accuracy in reproducing exact color matching is extraordinary. If you would like for me to send this to my lab, I can get the Delta E to discover any color shift.
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Although there could be minimal color differences in lots I doubt it would be visible unless side by side.
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