I don't even know where to start. How do other towns deal with sign permits? We are having quite a problem in my town (pop. 11,800). I inform my potential customers that they must have a permit for certain signs. We comply with our sign codes, but often times these new prospective customers are upset over the rule that they must have a sign permit and go to other out-of-town sign shops for their signage. Those signs are then installed (many out of code) by these other contractors who do not get permits or even care to check. Unless the building inspector happens to catch the violation these out-of-code signs can remain. This makes me look like a fool, because I have to comply while others don't.
I have to comply, because I do most of the city's signage and because I think it's the responsible thing to do in behalf of my customers. Over the past few months I have seen several signs go up (out-of-code and without permits.) I feel bad, because I turned a few of these folks in for non-compliance, but if I have to comply so should they. Now I have created an advisarial situation between 3 parties, 1.the new business owner ( because I turned him in) 2. the maker of the sign and probably 3. the building inspector, because I'm telling him he's not doing his job. This is not a spot I enjoy or think I deserve to be in. If I don't turn the business in, a new prospect can come up to me and say "Why can't I have a sign as big as the store next door? They just opened up last week and nobody's made them take their sign down."
My solution is to have an entity from the city supply the new business with a welcome packet listing some of the rules a new business had to adhere to in order to do business in our town. This would include a check list listing items like sign permits. The city thought this might be a good idea, but who would implement it. Currently other than the Water Department turning water on, they have know way of knowing who is occupying what business. I found that hard to believe.
How do other towns manage sign permits? There just has to be a better way.
Posted by Amy Brown (Member # 1963) on :
In my town, Pop. 2700, it depends on whose pulling the permit as to what size or location they can have. Basically, if you have a friend in City Hall (4 employees) you get away with more.
I always tell them talk to the city administrator to find out what they are allowed to have first. If they don't like it oh well. There are a lot of crappy signs around here. Mainly because everyone is too broke to get a good one. Mostly 10mm coroplast and 1/4" PVC signs around here. They could at least look nice, but they don't!!
Like your town, there is no enforcing the code. People get new tenants and stick posterboard handwritten signs up with packing tape. Gee, that looks nice and compliant!!
What can we do??? Posted by ScooterX (Member # 2023) on :
tough issues.
here in San Francisco, there is a huge sign code that is unenforced (no funding for any inspectors, and no way to actually apply for a permit for small signs). only signs requiring a contractors (ie, big heavy signs that might fall down and hurt somebody or electric signage) really need permits.
as for how you can proceed...
It seems to me that you have an opportunity, since you do the city's own signage, to offer a "service" to your customers by "easing their sign permit" process. That means you file the permit stuff for them to make it as painless as possible. yes, they'll have to pay for it, but you can point out that they'll either pay now or risk getting stuck later.
also, since you have a relationship with the permit folks, maybe you can advocate for changing the sign code so that small signs dont require a permit, or lower the cost, or something.
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Hiya Bill, Maybe you need to look at things a little differently. The permitting process is a necessary evil that protects people from unscrupulous contractors and shoddy work. Simply put, these out of town sign makers are taking food off your table and breaking the law. If your code enforcement official can't do his job, maybe it's time for the township to find someone who can. Even though you may be labeled a rat by some, you're just doing your job as an honest citizen trying to earn a decent living while watching out for your clients best interests.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Joe Endicott (Member # 628) on :
We are in the same boat here. We price out the signs accordingly, and get underbid by outta town shops. We have also lost jobs because we insisted on staying within the city guidelines, when a competing shop just did what the customer asked. The real kicker is that the city never does anything to the businesses that don't adhere to the code. Like you, we do business with the city, and the last thing we want is to get on their bad side.
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