I don't know why it's called Rapid tac, it should be called "Turtle Tac". I had to install some Avery Etch Mark Vinyl yesterday, some as big as 4x8, I used Rapid Tac as instructed, but I had to wait until this morning to remove the premask, the stuff would not allow me to remove the mask until this morning, What's up Roger? Now mind you it worked Great, but having to make 2 trips is a royal pain.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Did you use Rapid Tac or Rapid Tac-2 on the window?
Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
If you wet the mask thoroughly, it should come off very easy, no? I've never had a problem with Rapid Tac.
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
I had a feeling that this would be asked... Just Rapid Tac Glenn, I know I should have used 2, but they don't carry it here, they say to wait 90 seconds and then remove the mask, No Possible way! 9 hrs is more like it.
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
Lotti, I had a problem with this product a couple of years ago with the same type of install, using Avery Products, maybe it's the avery vinyl that is the problem. No?
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
USe RT II for calandered vinyl... then it will work really good.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Neil,
Roger may shoot me for this, but if it'll help....
Add clear isopropol (spl?) alcohol to Rapid Tac. I use roughly 2 parts RT to 1 part alcohol when I'm in a pinch. It will help the RT evaporate faster.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
BTW....No, you can't substitute with beer.
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
Said with a Homer tone.... "Beeeeeeeeeeer, auggggggh, lol, I'll try that Glenn, I have to do some more tomorrow, actually some smaller pieces for the same install. Thanks again!
Posted by Jerry Starpoli (Member # 1559) on :
Where do you get Rapid Tac II ? None of my suppliers have it.
Posted by Larry Presnell (Member # 265) on :
I have almost quit using Rapid Tac in favor of Tac 2. I get mine fro Richardson Supply.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Neil
Rapid tac II is the kicker.
if your supplier doesn't carry do what I do call em every other day and ask if they carry it, try to get a different sales monkey every time, soon they will think the masses are in NEED of it. lol
Worked for me I got Rapid prep that way.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
Rochon, quit reading my mind!
I did the exact same thing to my supplier. I think they finally starting carrying Rapid Prep so they wouldn't have to listen to me.
Posted by Harris Kohen (Member # 2139) on :
I guess we all called my supplier then cuz I was doing the same and now they have it finally Posted by Matty McQuilkin (Member # 4156) on :
"Use RT II for calandered vinyl... then it will work really good."
Why RT 11 for calendared?
Has it to do with the thickness of the vinyl?
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Kissy,
I think it had more to do with that aluminum bat you had in your hand.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Neil, sorry you had a problem, we make Rapid Tac so you WON'T have problems !!
If the vinyl didn't bond after a couple minutes, then chances are it was one of two reasons:
1- the substrate (glass) was not clean enough. when doing dry applications, bonding is easy infact even on some unclean substrates, not so with ANY wet application.
Also sometimes in the very attempt to CLEAN the substrate, you may be contaminating it, only use Rapid Tac or Tac II or Rapid Prep with a "cheap grocery store paper towel" (a must).I have heard all the horror stories "windex, lacquer thinner prep-sol, Iso. Alc., simple green,etc. don't use these for cleaning prior to vinyl application, it means you will wait a looong time for vinyl to bond !
2-You must only use Rapid Tac on "cast premium or intermediate" any other type of film you must use Rapid Tac II.
Roger
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Hers a little test I devised years ago;
After cleaning but before applying
First make sure you have no oils or lotions on your hands (wash em real quick). Now, lay the backside of one of your hands up against the substrate (you know the side you look at when you cut your nails). Glide it slowely across the area you have cleaned, you should feel a great deal of resistance (friction) especially at the wrinkly skin of your knuckles.
If you don't feel griping, bouncing, friction, then clean again untill you do !!!!!!!
Roger Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Duhhh...Roger...izzat supposed to mean "squeekie clean"????
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Roger, after cast premium & intermediate... what else is there? any low grade I ever saw was called "intermediate". I guess that means it's somewhere between premium & crap.... just that no-ones fessed up to sellin crap yet
(btw, the wrinkly skin of my knuckles on which side of my hand again?)
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
Thanks for the tips Roger, But, I did exactly as you suggested, I actually cleaned it several times, and made comment to my helpers how Clean the rapid tac made the surface, and I always use plain paper towels, and am constantly changing them, after each wipe. This is the second time like I said, that this Raped Tac Failed me, and to tell you the truth roger, this is probably only the second time that I used this product to apply this type of glass etch, I did away with this product cause there's no way to apply big sheets of this stuff dry, I'm using Diamond etch by Avery for all my installs of etching vinyl now, like I said earlier, this latest install that I did, I had to use etchmark, that is what the customer Supplied, they are a huge Grocery Store Chain here in Canada, Sobeys, they even have their own Large Sign Shop in Nova Scotia, so they supplied the vinyl.
I have great success in applying Diamond Etch, dry, it just seems to go on better than the etchmark, and no, Rapid TAC, Will also screw up Diamond etch Vinyl as well. I'm going to try Glenns suggestion this morning, on some more etchmark. I talked to my supplier yesterday, EM Plastics about rt2, he said that he never heard of it, but will check it out.
Don't forget what I said, that this stuff layed down perfectly using the Rapid Tac 1, no complaints here on that, and actually it's so easy going on that it makes the Job that much less traumatic, it's almost impossible to screw it up. And as I'm typing this, my wife just said, that Em Plastics are going to get me a sample of rt2, so that's good news.
Posted by TransLab (Member # 470) on :
Hmmm... I'll have to nag EM, Montreal branch, about RT II. Confusing how many RT products are out there, if RT II is better than original why produce both? Whatever happened to "NEW & IMPROVED" labels.
Posted by Chris Lovelady (Member # 2540) on :
i have used this product exclusively and am very happy!...now i got that out of the way.
"but I had to wait until this morning to remove the premask, the stuff would not allow me to remove the mask until this morning"
i have used the frosted film to cover large areas of glass and have never needed the transfer tape.really the transfer tape is for lettering. the apllication is simular to window tinting. line the film up tape the top like allways and peal the backing a little to get started use the rapid tack as usual and proceed down the window.always apply so you have to trim the edges!
i hope this helps in the future.
chris
Posted by TransLab (Member # 470) on :
Chris that'd work fine if you're applying sheets of it, but what if its cut, how do you deal with hollows & centers & pieces.
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
I thought about that Chris, I really did, and I just might try that the next time. it's a good Idea. And Mike is right, why 2 rapid tacs.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
I'd be hesitant to be rubbing paper towel on a painted finish when cleaning prior to an install.
Paper towel is an abbrasive material...made to absorb and also provide a degree of abbrasiveness to clean dried gunk off kitchen countertops and such. Some substrates (such as countertops, porcelain, fiberglass, glass) might not be as affected by paper towels as an automotive paint.
I've used Rapid Tac and it is a good product and works as advertised.
Mainly I use my own measured formula of water, Dawn dish detergent (no hand lotions formula) and a bit of denatured alcohol and have excellent results. It's been a good application solution for me.
I've never in 22 years had a customer complain about graphics not sticking, or premature failure.
But Rapid Tac should have worked well for you and I'm surprised there was a problem. The times I've used it, I have been just as pleased with it's functionality.
Glass is generally more of a problem than other substrates in my opinion for applying graphics with any wet solution.
Posted by Paul Luszcz (Member # 4042) on :
I just used the samples of Rapid Tac and RT II that I received, and I too am wondering why both?
I couldn't really tell them apart. I was using high performance vinyl, so it may not have mattered, but I was not planning on buying both.
Also, although it worked well, I couldn't really tell the difference between it and the detergent I have always used. Except for a slight friction which made it hard to reposition the graphic. This is a big reason to apply vinyl wet, so did I do something wrong?
Posted by Steve Levitt (Member # 3906) on :
I've never heard of Rapid Tac or RT2 for that matter.
Where can you get it? I tried their Web Site and I can't find a way to order it from the site.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Ok, heres the answer to the "why 2" question, We started manufacturing regular Rapid Tac in 1987, the industry was getting into vinyl films.
We thought most shops would go with "premium cast" but we were wrong, so in 1996 we felt the need to make a formula that would work on all other films, mylar,polyester,metalized,calandered,etc.
You can use Rapid Tac II on any film type however, its going to loose a lot of positioning time when used with "premium cast" especially in warm climates, its a hotter, different solvent base formula.
And Yes Doug there is a " econemy grade" of films that don't usually have as agresive of an adhesive system.
Some films have ACRYLIC (or solvent base) adhesive systems.
Some have LATEX, (or rubber base) adhesive system.
We usually find the "premium cast" with the more agressive acrylic (solvent base).
There you have it.
Roger Posted by Peter Schuttinga (Member # 2821) on :
Neil, did I read it correctly that you used Rt to clean the glass? Use the rapid prep, much better.
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
Yes Peter I used Rapid Prep, it worked Great, I just got back from laying down the last smaller pieces of etchmark, and I did as Glenn suggested, I added some alcohol to it about 30% and it worked great, I was able to remove the backing paper with no problem at all. Thanks Glenn!
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
...and you'll notice more and more "economy" or calendared vinyls using the Acrylic (solvent) based adhesive.
Avery A5/A6, Bannercal,MacTac,Oracal all advertise the Solvent based adhesive... I can't confirm this, but I gotta believe 3M does as well.
Polyester and Mylar films in general are not good choices for outdoor or long term use as most people know.
I'm pretty sure that Coburn Metallized films use a solvent based adhesive as well...
So based on what Roger is saying...cast and almost all calendared films now should work fine with Rapid Tac (the original) if you choose to buy your application fluid.
A quick glimpse through Ameribans catalogue will confirm this (move to solvent adhesive for cheap vinyls).
The polyster films may still require RT 2.....I'd have to check and see what adhesives they are using now...might still be rubber based...but in lieu of where calendared is going, it wouldn't surprise me if they would switch over to Acrylic adhesive too....in which case one would surmise that a single solution should cover most needs.
Posted by Paul Luszcz (Member # 4042) on :
Roger,
Was this (using RT2 with cast vinyl) the reason I couldn't reposition it well? Is that why we need both products if we also use calandered vinyl?
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Paul, yes I would say that is why. It will work on the "cast" when the temp. drops and you will have enough positioning time.
Roger
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
I'm glad it worked out, Neal. Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Oh oh, Neil I just read your last responce on this thread, did you actually use Rapid Prep to apply the Etchmark or Rapid Tac?
Maybe it was just a typo in your responce? If not, this is a problem.
Roger Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
Yes Roger that is a typo. I Can't even get Rapid Prep. lol. I used Rapid Tac and only Rapid Tac.
Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
Neil / Mike...
ND GRAPHICS stocks ALL of Roger's products...although I'm not sure about quantities in your nearest branch. The good news is that if you want us to stock them for you "locally", all you ever have to do is ask...and maybe give us some idea of your anticipated monthly reuirements and preferred container size.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Now thats the kind of supplier everyone should have !!
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