For those of you who use Illustrator and Photoshop, Adobe has announced the release of Adobe Illustrator CS (11) and Photoshop CS (8).
"CS" stands for Creative Suite...not "Chicken $@it".
They also have new CS versions of their other popular programs....
Some of the main upgrades to Illustrator are:
1.) Font Preview (imagine that....every other program has had this since the beginning of time.
2.) Fit to page - you can now take a large sized graphic, and click on to a "fit to page" button to automatically and temporarily reduce (or enlarge) the objects to fit to a predetermined page size for printing on your desktop printer.
Imagine that...another brainstorm...Corel has had this since...well, like forever.
3.) Many type function improvements...
You can check out the PDF on their site.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I finally got fed up with illustrator 10 & went back to 9 I found so many things had changed & figured I'd get used to it, but I didn't. It was constantly wasting all kinds of my time doing basic things I've been doing for years & tripping over these minor tweaks that seemed to offer me nothing but headaches & confusion. I can't remember one thing that changed that really helped me, but I could probably list about 10 that caused me grief!
Mostly the new pathfinder pallette bugged me. I can't see why "unite" shouldn't finish the job w/ 1 click... why I need to click "expand" after? & front-to-back moved, back-to front was gone I think, "exclude" changed it's name I think... just more buttons that made less sense IMO, & half of them required me to click "expand" to get any results.
Anyone else have the trouble I had with assigning a stroke to text? I usually don't do this until after I convert to outlines... sometimes I'd forget, but in 10, if I tried to asign a stroke, it corrupted the text somehow & I could no longer change fill color or stroke even after converting to outlines... or sometimes I couls assign a color... it would show in the tool pallete, but not on the text, then I'd have to "make compound path" to the text just for my fill color to display.
Also I often use the stroke color to create additional vectors for outlines & inlines. I forget all the grief 10 was giving me in this regard, but I remember I lost more then the cost of the upgrade in lost productivity trying to use that upgrade until I finally cut my losses & went back to 9.0
How about you Adobe guru's out there... any really good stuff I'm missing out on with 10?
sorry Todd, don't mean to hijack the thread or anything, but your topic just set me off on a rant that must have needed to get out Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Doug...feel free to rant. I think that is the main purpose of software; to confuse, frustrate, anger, waste time and generally test one's ability to remain sane. It's of the devil....;-)
at least that's my experience.
I have used Ill 10 since it came out and have had very favorable results. Did you have the 10.0.3 version patch applied Doug? That took care of a lot of little issues.
I'm not sure why they gave the option to "expand" either...I guess as a last chance to change your mind? But I thought that is what the "undo" command was for?!
Illustrator 10 is faster than 9, far less buggy and more reliable than 9, has way less "printer" issues than 9...plus has an "envelope" feature that is very useful for interactively distorting shapes and text along with several other distortion functions.
The huge advantage to me in going to Ill CS is the font preview and fit to page additions.
I can't tell you how many times I have cursed Adobe for not being able to see what the fonts look like as I toggle through them.
I think Illustrator is a decent program...but if my employer gave me the choice?....CorelDraw all the way.
I have used both extensively and still prefer CorelDraw's interface, speed, myriad of built in functions, multi purpose tools...etc, etc.
I'm kind of surprised you like Ill 9. If you follow(ed) the Adobe Illustrator forum, you'd see that a huge percentage of users had nothing but troubles with 9 and resorted to going back to Version 8 (as did I) which was way more stable, bug free and speedier.
In fact..my version 9 saw about 2 weeks of bug laden frustrated usage and now sits collecting dust. I'm hoping for the chance to cram it up some derilect programmers....well, you know. :-)
But if 9 works for you..that's great. Not every user found it bad...but the general consensus I believe is that it was a waste of upgrade money.
I think some of it was system related...and it's gotta be tough to make software to work in every computer environment....there are so many variables that could conflict with functionality.
I'll be upgrading to CS, and will cross my fingers that I don't take it "prison style" again.
Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
Doug, Stick to your CASmate!!!!!
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Doug, In my own rant I forgot to mention that I never experienced the outline problem you discribed. Are you on mac or pc? Maybe the mac version had disimilar glitches.
Oh, and another thing I hate about Adobe....they force you to buy scads of third party software like: multipage, dimensioning, distortions (prior to 10) etc that have come standard in Coreldraw for years and years.
They throw us a couple bisquits a year and sort of dribble things along.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I'm with you on that Bob, except for a few things... I'm happier with my importing results in Omega when I bring in Illustrator files, I often get illustrator files from clients, & if I have very text-intensive layouts (like pool rules etc.)Casmate is not the tool for the job. I also prefer to work with gradients in Illustrator over casmate & when I need to place image files in a drawing, casmate is not as easy a place to do that.
Todd, I did backtrack to 8 for quite a while because Casmate won't import illustrator 9, & I kept forgetting to save down. Once I got Omega I was forced to remember to save down for that as well, so when I got a new computer I just loaded 9 & never looked back. I can get a lot done in illustrator, but am the first to admit I don't use anywhere near 1/2 its potential, so the glitches that bother others are probably over my head.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I will check out those distortions you mention. I wasn't aware of them... guess I really should at least open the little upgrade manual When I first began using Illustrator 3 in 1989 I used to use "typestyler" because the shop I worked at had that program for distortions. Casmate can do several distorts fairly easy, but nothing yet has been as easy typestyler was.
I just checked envelope distort... I could use that! what else am I missing? OK I'll read the damn manual. I'm on my home machine right now (both PC's)& noticed that some of the outline glitchs & text painting glitches that occured at work, are not problematic here. Maybe I should re-install 10 at work as well as look into "patches"
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Doug,
another side question: Do you know if you can use Omega software with a Summa plotter? If so, what kind of hoops do you have to jump through....
My buddies Omega software does a lot of neat stuff....but I'm not sure I like the drawing/node editing portion of it...just curious.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I hate the node editing, but it is better in Omega 2.0 I don't know about the Summa question, but I think I remember people posting about using an edge & lining up cuts on a summa with some difficulty (not that cutting would be difficult... just registering prints w/o the bombsite viewer used with the gerber plotters)
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
I am on Illustrator 10 on a Mac with OSX, and I have the same problems that Doug has, plus the eye dropper tool sucks, it's hit or miss, ghost oulines that never go away aaaargh!!! As far as Text preview coming up Yeeeehawww! its about time, I dont need the fit to doocument thing, and I'm glad they are not trying scale yet, because CadTools works so good. I have a few 3rd party plug-ins and theough they are exppensive, I can't imagine Adobe doing them justice. It would be nice to have everything in one package.
Rick
Posted by Danny Busselle (Member # 3746) on :
I am still running CASMATE I have adobe and Illustrator on another computer but I know Casmate inside out Posted by Bill Modzel (Member # 22) on :
I can ditto Rick's post here. Mac OS X. The eyedropper tool has switched from indispensible to useless. I don't seem to have the ghost outlines but I'm sure that they are fun.
I think Adobe's thought with the "expand" thing is just to keep distortions and the like "live", but it has just created more work here. I won't even get into the "attributes" box. Talk about a useless and ill thought out item. The only thing I've learned about it is it is a pain. If you have a problem changing a color and it doesn't, check what the attributes are.
Havine said that, I love OS X's stability, including Illustrator. I restarted the other day after installing some software and had to quit something like 8 apps that had all be running for a week or more. Can't wait to have them all on a G5!
Illustrator is still the industries standard file mode and will probably be so for a long time even if you have to back save files so that "other" apps can read them. There aren't many files that Illusrator can't open somehow and it's compatability with the rest of Adobe's apps is flawless.
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
I'm glad I'm not the only one, I thought I was doing something wrong. On the issue of using Casmate, I have to say probably not a good idea when it is no longer being supported, and no longer works with current operating software. Working in sign specific software is not the way to go anyways, because of propriatory extensions, dongle, support, expense, and when no longer supported, left with files you can't open because of those worthless extensions. I do have Flexi, I also used Casmate, and it's a great production software, love the envelopes and effects (when I uses them, but I never rely on saving in that format, so it does not save me anymore time, since I always have to tell it not to save in the .fs extension. Ask anyone trying to upgrade what a nightmare Casmate, older versions of Flexi and Anagraph has become.
Rick
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
quote: ...I have to say probably not a good idea when it is no longer being supported...
just for the sake of argument... the fact that Adobe software (for example) is still supported does what for me? It makes my clients provide upgraded files I can't open & then it makes me waste money on the upgrade & time learning the upgrade. This is not to say that they (Adobe) are not making improvements & working hard to maintain compatibility with newer technology... but lack of casmate support, inconvenient though it may be, does not entirely eliminate its worth.
I think I would be typical among us sign folk when I say the work I do in Casmate is for me to cut vinyl on my plotter. If I can layout a job quickly, to my clients satisfaction & cut it effortlessly with my plotter... then the support issue is not that significant. I agree that I would be happy if it worked in XP, or imported Illustrator 9 or 10 files, or could be re-booted after a crash w/o restarting the computer... but for so many of us with 5 to 10 years production experience... not using it would be like throwing away old tools because shiny new ones, with slightly enhanced features have been invented.
Posted by Paul Luszcz (Member # 4042) on :
I use Illustrator a lot, mainly because of it's compatability with Photoshop.
As we use it more and more, we find ourselves doing things in Illustrator that we used to do in Gerber GA. But there are still some things that I think Illustrator must do, but I can't find them.
Like outline a shape without having to put on a stroke and then outline the stroke. Just place an outline at a certain offset from the original.
And the one I can't believe I haven't found (in 5 years of trying) is how to resize an object to a known size, keeping it proportional.
Any of these things (and more) are a breeze in Freehand. Freehan is also under rated as an import/export filter. It'll swallow up just about anything and spit out anything else.
We often use it for this alone. Clients will e-mail us Illustrator files that don't open in Illustrator. No problem for Freehand. And Freehand can open files exported from GA, where Illustrator can't.
All that being said, being able to convert vector files to raster images between Illustrator and Photoshop means we stay predominantly with Illustrator.
BTW, we gave up on Corel Draw at version 5. The vast majority of our software bugs went away with it. I'll take odd interface to fabulous an buggy anyday.
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
It seems like it does nothing for you, if you don't take advantage of the changes, the fact that you can't load your Casmate in your new computer should be a sign of what is to come. I appreciate your comments Doug, I often forget that I don't design single layouts like most sign shops. I was also taught to do it in Illustrator and/or Corel because the designs could be placed on a title block (looked more profesional than Flexis or Cas-mates title block feature) for client approval, print easier in a scale, and work in sending it to print. A signshop I worked for learned the hard way when the dongle of an unsupported software went bad. We loost all our production files but not the originals in Corel. Though most here may use "signage software" the majority of signs are designed in Illustrator Corel. The thing that is happening to Cas-mate is wrong in my opinion, it should at the very least be system supported, but when your old tool is broken beyond repair, or no longer makes you any money because of lost time, or you can't retrieve a file when the dongle goes, then you'll know the frustration a lot of people are experiencing.
Rick
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I did already buy Flexi, so I can open my files if I lose the Casmate dongle. These days with the edge, many of my files end up in Illustrator, CasMate & Omega so different parts of the file can be created where I am best (or fastest)able to do so, and then output to a variety of devices needing a variety of file types.
Coming to sign making from an architectural background, I used to do my first sign work in MacDraw (back in the days working with Ken Ethridge). I did detailed dimensioning w/o the aid of software assisted dimension features. Since I could enlarge my prints to mylar or vellum & then run actual blueprints (or Diazo actually) I had to work backwards from the enlargement percentage to adjust the scaling in my drawings. I've done plenty of proposals with title blocks done in illustrator, but files created in Casmate & imported. Casmate has it's advantages over Illustrator... not many, but some very valuable ones I've needed hundreds of times. Paul mentions a few (outlining contours) & on large signs, working at actual size seems easier in Casmate.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Rick, I just wanted to clarify that I would choose illustrator over casmate if I had to choose one, & I would agree that for anyone who doesn't already know casmate it wouldn't be worth the time to learn it even if it was free, but some of us old dogs are still profitting from the skills learned long ago.
If I was just doing large signage system design planning & contract proposal documents, Casmate wouldn't have much place, but even though Scanvec touted the ability of Flexi to open casmate files... what they don't tell you, is that the text is handled differently & as a result all my old files have text kerning & line lengths all out of whack when opened in flexi. So if I lost the dongle, opening in flexi with kerning problems is better then not opening at all, but I'll be keeping casmate to the bitter end to open 5 years worth of Casmate archive files from before anyone knew it would be discontinued. (& another 2 or 3 since)
I would also agree that making the switch to Flexi (for example... since I own it)sooner rather then later, would be a wise move, so I'm not preaching the "opening archive files" excuse 5 years from now. I may be easily able to toss around my own version of logical thinking when posting to the board... but using it to coerce myself to take the plunge & learn new software? well, that has turned out to be like pulling teeth. Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
When I worked at one shop, we had an Edge, router, engraver and the plotter. We had Flexi, Gerber GA, EnRoute, and some engraving software, thats 4 production programs, let alone Corel, which everything was designed and set up in. So I know where you are coming from. Mac Draw, that takes me back, to far back, I pretty much worked the same way as you did. Since I do signs of all types, I use CadTools with Illustrator, it works great once you get used to it. Design in scale, it's pretty exact, when you gett to full size, and dimensioning tools are great, way more options than Corel has.I just saw Ken in Las Veagas at the SEGD show, I took his seminar on ADA. I'll have to mention you next time I see him. I worked for a rival ADA consultant a few years back so I like to pick on him.
Rick
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
AI 10/pc
Hold down alt button when using pathfinder "add", "exclude" ect and miss the fun of needing the to expand with an extra click.
Hold down the shift button when using the eyedropper to pick up a color. Whichever of the fill or stroke section of the toolbox is on top is which will get that selected color. Personally, I think it's kinda cool. It lets you sample a color without picking up unwanted attributes like font, font size or whatever. I too had those ghost colors till I figured out the shift thing.
It's like any other upgrade version of any program. You gotta either figure out what's what on your own or pick up the owners manual. I prefer not using the manual. First thing I do when I get an upgrade is go through all the keys, trying modifiers and function keys as well, to see what goodies I can find. It's almost fun if ya let it be. It can be a pain in the @$$ if you prefer it that way.
AND anybody doin a doubletake at the "pc" thing at the top of my post, I use a PC at my dayjob.....but I DO make them pay me to do it!!! I can't complain, they do let me use my favorite programs.
[ October 07, 2003, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: Don Coplen ]
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Bill - what's a "mac"? Is that a semi truck? Hehehe just teasin.
I hope that Illustrator CS lives up to it's claims....they say it is faster, in fact as fast or faster than version 8. Isn't that bizzare? Claiming that a new version 11 is as fast as a predesessor 3 versions back? That tells you that 9 and even 10 were mega memory hawgs.
This statement was made on the Illustrator (windows) forum by one of their engineers.
Anyway...I'm stuck with Illustrator as long as my employer chooses that as their graphics software package. I know I sound like a complainer, but I do like Illustrator overall...
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Paul,
To create a specified outline around an object...simply go to Object/Path/Offset path....and then type in the width of the outline you want and that's it.
To resize a shape and keep it proportional:
Go to Object/Transform/Scale and then either select uniform or non-uniform and type in the percentage of the desired enlargement or reduction.
Now, I will agree that this could be done better in that they should also allow you to see your current size in inches in this dialogue box and then plug in the desired dimension in inches....both would be useful.
Give me a holler (or Don Coplen) any time you have an Illustrator question. I'm sure we can help.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
OBJECT/PATH/OFFSET PATH never worked right for me... now that I'm learning some cool alt key, shift key stuff, maybe I'll find out what I been doing wrong here... I can select mitre, round, or bevel but i never want that (well round can be good sometimes but...) I want clean sharp corners that follow my original! Is that too much to ask?
Posted by Fred Weiss (Member # 3662) on :
Paul, to perform a proportional resize
1. Select what is to be resized
2. Go to Transform palette and enter the desired height or width
3. Enter Control > Tab
Don't ask me why they did it that way. It doesn't even appear in the help files .... but it works.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
HOT DAMN! ask for it & you got it... whaddayaknow...
& for non-proportional, enter height or width & just hit tab...
cool, Thanks Fred
Posted by Scott Pagan (Member # 2507) on :
wow i hit this late... my tips for the pathfinder add (weld) of ALT+click, and scaling by entering the desired value then CTRL+TAB have been covered.
you will get more accurate results by using strokes outlined to paths vs. the object>path>offset. for some reason the offset path will create all kinds of small unnesassary elements that need to be cleaned up or deleted.
as for the CS version, we'll have to get it but it should be better than 10 has been. on our systems it has been buggy and will lock up when saving large *.eps files (leaving huge temp.ai files everywhere). 8 was faster by far and had less problems.
it will be good to finally have the font preview and other new options. i just hope they don't move around the menus and options around as much as from 8 to 10 was.
to add color style to text you can use the eyedropper, but watch out if it is active text, it will get the font, size, and color properties and may change the font you want to color. i select the color then make compound path (CTRL+8). like most programs there are dozens ways of doing any task.
CADtools is a nice plug-in and others here at the shop use it and like it well.
Illustrator's distortions are not as varied as Omega's, but are very handy when designing in Illustrator. It stays active until you save as an older version (i use 8) then it converts distortions to curves.
Posted by Fred Weiss (Member # 3662) on :
Maybe someone can tell me what I'm missing on this problem I have with Illustrator:
As an example, let's take a letter "B" which has been converted to outlines. It is a compound object so both the inner loops are holes. If I release the compound to modify the character's nodes, I can never get it recompounded correctly. Usually what I'll get is one of the two inner loops will be a hole and the other will remain a solid.
I end up saving and opening it in FlexiSign where I can perform the same action and it will compound as it should.
Posted by Scott Pagan (Member # 2507) on :
you want to re-compound it in two steps (one time for the top loop to the outer B, another for the bottom loop to the just compounded B with top loop)
to quote Elmer Fudd "screwey... verry screwey"
you're not alone using something else to get it the way you want. it is much simplier and easier in other programs (and older versions of illustrator). it is for that reason i'll open and convert all my 10s to 8s when possible.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Fred,
To re-combine and have both holes of a letter "B" be "drilled out" properly...
Select the all letter "B" elements, go to the pathfinder pallette and click on the "Exclude overlapping shape areas" button, and then "expand" button.
The overlapping shape areas button should be on the top right (in version 10) and the expand button just to the right of it.
And thanks a ton for the proportional resize trick... I never knew that was available, or how to do it. Isn't it weird though that there are no "uniform / non-uniform" type buttons to click on after entering a new size....? This seems like such a basic way of doing things and they do include it with the "object/transform/scale" options.
Thanks again....
PS - was this in the manual? It's amazing what you can learn if you read the manual.
Hope this helps.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Doug,
To get those "sharp corners" you're after when using the "offset path" function:
When you go to "object/path/offset path" and then get the "offset path" dialogue box up, you will notice that you have "offset/joins/and mitre limit" boxes available. Make sure you have "mitre" as the available "joins" attribute selected and then here's the key to sharp corners>>>>>> the "mitre limit" box is set at "4" by default. CRANK IT UP TO "20" OR SO. This will force the corners outward to a point.
You may have to experiment a little with the amount you add in this "Mitre Limit" box to get the results you're after....but this is how I do it. Hope this helps.
[ October 08, 2003, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Scott Pagan (Member # 2507) on :
look over the shortcut menu that was included in the manuals for many keyboard/mouse shortcuts. there are a few that are very handy and if you study them, you can find "hidden" ones like the CTRL+TAB stuff described in the scaling.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Thanks for the "shortcut" tip Scott.
Scott...did you catch the way to re-combine shapes using the pathfinder button I described above? That will keep you from going through extra steps as you described.
Just select the objects to recombine, and click on the "exclude overlapping shapes" button in the pathfinder tab...and then hit "expand".
This will recombine everything nicely in one neat step.
Hope this helps.
Posted by Fred Weiss (Member # 3662) on :
I guess my problem is that I just like the convenience of the Help feature and figure that will be where I will find the latest and best information.
Thanx for that info Todd. Scott I've tried that way many times and it doesn't seem to work for me. Is there an order one must select in to have it compund properly?
Posted by Paul Luszcz (Member # 4042) on :
Fred:
I assume you're using Illustrator on a PC. I'm using AI 10 on a Mac.
I tried the control/tab keys and it didn't work. I also tried everything else/tab that I could think of.(Bill..do you know the comparable key set?)
I had actually used the Outline Path command years ago and forgotten it. Thanks for the reminder.
I tend to blame the software when it can do simple things in ways so obtuse you can't remember what they are.
Posted by Paul Luszcz (Member # 4042) on :
Found it!
On a Mac, the comp to Control/Tab is Apple/Enter.
Thank you all!
Posted by Ted Nesbitt (Member # 3292) on :
Why is no one complaining about ADOBE releasing new software and then charging for the upgrades? I hear alot of complaining when other software suppiers do so---why not in this case?(sorry, just stirring stirring stirring the pot a little)..
I picked up a couple of good tips here guys---thanks very much for sharing your insights---I'm off now to try out a trick laying out a file!
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Ted... first, a quote from my earlier post...
quote: just for the sake of argument... the fact that Adobe software (for example) is still supported does what for me? It makes my clients provide upgraded files I can't open & then it makes me waste money on the upgrade & time learning the upgrade.
But, to add too that I will say that Illustrator has been a well functioning program for years & years. Things I never thought of needing are being added, but basic functioning has already been at or above my needs for the most part.
Compare that to Omega 1.56 which had so many limitations & omissions(not to mention bugs)for a program almost mandatory for Gerber Edge owners. Then consider that another company (signlab)came out with software that can suddenly make better use of the edge then Gerbers own software. (2 spot gradients for example)AND... for the final twist of the knife, Adobe upgrades can usually be had for around $139... Omega 2.0 was $369 Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
As far as upgrade costs, I have spent over 1500.00 for Flexi upgrades, bad enought I paid 3000 to begin with, with Illustrator, I have yet to hit 800.00 bucks for the software and upgrades. Rick
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Now...to really pull of the gloves.....and do bare knuckled battle...
Illustrator or CorelDraw? I'd probably have to go with CorelDraw...I like their interface better and the fact that they have dimensioning/custom scaling and multifunction tools....
Illustrator is ok, but I think it's kind of like owning an MG Midget....neat little car but designed a little on the eccentric side and takes a little more work and finessing to get the job done.
Corel is built for productivity in my humble opinion...and I've used both extensively for years. Not that I can't learn a few things that I haven't tapped into yet.
Ok...so what's your preference...and why?
Posted by Fred Weiss (Member # 3662) on :
Illustrator ..... because for better or for worse their applications are the standard that the majority of the design community has adopted.
Corel can't even export an Illustrator EPS correctly if any shapes are compounded (combined). Instead it segments the shapes making extra work before one can cut them in vinyl. Some programs will actually tell you that the EPS file from Corel is not an EPS file and reject it.
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
For the work I do, Illustrator with Cadtools works for me, I do have Corel, and know it well, but to me Illustrator is more intuative. Better typographic tools, outline/stroke tools are better, I use them a lot when drafting my designs, especially dashed lines. Cadtools is way more usefull than Corels's Cad tools, though I admit, Illustrator has none, and at 200 bucks, it is a lot of money for that extra feature. I also design for print, and my drawings end up in AutoCad, it works on all those seamlessly. I had a hard time finding a Corel ouput place, so to me it never made sense, I never use clip-art, and never have to do any extrude effects, so Corels use, for me at least, is limited to opening soeonee elses files, but now that Illustrator opens Corel files, I question upgrading to Corel 11. I am a believer that these are tools, and each one has it's use, Corel is a good design program, and for the sake oof many sign people who rely on it, never goes out of business, but at the level of design I do, and the amounts of documentation I develop, Illustrator works better.
Rick
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
On my Mac, Corel is a memory hog (much worse than Illustrator) and buggy as hell. It crashes faster than a drunk sky diver. With Corel, if I'm going to have any luck at all with it, it has to be the only program running. With Illustrator I'm usually running Flexi, AI, Quickbooks, and sometimes Typestyler all at once. (you PC only guys would drool over the Mac only Typestyler if you saw it)
I'm running Illustrator 9 and have had very few problems. And my Mac is a pre G3!
Careful jumping to a G5. They run system 10 only! I'm going for the dual G4 with system 9 & 10 so I can run a few older programs.
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
Dave The G5 does run OS9 while OSX runs as the main system software, I have Illustrator 9 on my G5 with no problem, I don't know about flexi, since the G5 is my work computer, not my home freelance computer.
Rick
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
Rick, that's good to know. Maybe they meant they are not shipping it with sys 9. The ones I saw for early orders only had 10 on them, and since I don't have 9 I could be in a pickle.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Yeah, my typestyler memories posted above were from my old Mac days. (surprise Bill, Don, etc., much as I love bashing you mac fans when someone brings it up... I was Mac only for 6 years)
& Good old days they were too... if certain software had not taken me captive & lobotomized my better judgement, I probably still would be, but alas... I've went past the point of no return I'm afraid... oh no, thats what they mean by the dark side $#!+ this feels wierd... I'm going back into denial now. Posted by Scott Pagan (Member # 2507) on :
i like the Adobe stuff better than Corel's. we have one designer who loathes working in illustrator, but many of our supplied files come in the *.ai or *.eps format, so he may choose which program to use.
i agree with Fred on the Corel export as *ai(eps) not handling compounded paths correctly. freehand also does this. when working with plotters that see all the vector paths, it's an extra step to cleanup, but if you deal with it often, you know to look for it.
Posted by Bill Modzel (Member # 22) on :
Doug my son, even if you are now captured by the dark side, you still realize the errors of your ways. All is not lost.May the power of Panther and the great G5 bring you back to the path of peace and enlightenment.
Dave, I've almost forgotten Typestyler. I bought it along with Illustrator 3 with my first Mac CI. I even have a copy of Typestyler V3 on the shelf that I don't even have installed on my G4. I wonder how it runs in Classic?
Corel? Well, I do alot of Edge stuff from a few local sign shops who use it on thier PC's. They do an excellent job with it. I open their files in Illustrator and print them out with MacImprint. I have no problem with Corel. . . on someone elses computer.
Rick, are you saying that the G5's will run Classic also? One of my main reasons for holding back is my RIP runs in Classic only for the time being although it's suppose to be X native in early 04.
Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
You are right about Corel and exporting to .eps, but I have been exporting to .AI for many years without any trouble, does the same thing as an .EPS, everyone else can open with no problems. The fact that you have to jump thru hoops to get illustrator to do something as simple as knock out the insides of letters puts my vote to Corel.
I have been using Illustrator, mainly for offset printing work, to learn the program and be fluent in several programs, but I don't have the time or the patience to have to figure out stupid stuff like why the insides of my letters are missing. Same is true for Freehand, I have it, but it is so screwy just to get it to perform a simple task.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Michael -
The time spent learning how to use your software is time well spent. The time wasted making the same errors or doing something in an inefficient manner is much more costly...in my opinion.
But I have the type of personality which requires me to figure it out no matter what....or else I'll be frustrated and can't quit thinking about the problem.
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
Bill, the G5 does not run classic like the new G4s, it runs on OSX, but if you open an OS9 program, a window opens starting OS9 within OSX, so you are basically running OSX and 9 at the same time. I have my Illustrator 8,9, Quark, Pagemaker, Freehand, Fontographer, Golive and Live Motion on OS9 and they work fine, the only thing I don't know is if a dongle protected software will run on it.
Michael, I don't think hitting command 8 is jumping through hoops when punching hole (compound) in a letter, though I agree that the new "expand" button sucks and I had commented to Adobe on it, a very slight inconvenience. I admit that V10 is the buggiest Adobe porgram I have ever used, I didn't not get the beta of Illustrator CS so I don't know if they fixed the bugs, but we are getting it at work very soon. Also when it comes to programs, I know a lot of them, most very well, but then I only design, I used Mac Draw first, but then went into Corel for quite a while, mastered it really well, then when I started working in shops that used Illustrator, I found Illustrator very easy to use, there was a guy who was an Illustrator master at one shop he was a big help.Though there is one program I cannot get the hang of, AutoCad, it hurts my brain every time I use it, I bought 3 books and took a class, I think the program doesn't like me, so I understand not "getting" a program without someone showing you. And of course the older I get the harder it is
Rick
Posted by Bill Modzel (Member # 22) on :
Just a note on the compounded path that acts like it's not. Which, by the way, often happens on Corel files exported to Illustrator.
The problem with let's say a "B" that only has one knock out showing is the path direction is wrong on the non open "hole". Look at the attributes palett. Select the non open area with the "arrow +" key. There are two little boxes with arrows pointing opposite directions. One of them is grey. Click on the other which will chang the direction the path is drawn. Bingo, open.
If for some reason that doesn't work it's usually because there are actually two shapes on top of each other. This sometimes happens with merges.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Bill,
You just made me smile.... I just tested your theory and sure enough...when I purposely converted the letter "B" into outlines and then changed the path direction of one of the "holes, and then combined them>>>>>> only one hole showed as it should have with the other one remaining black.
I changed the path back and "voila"....it instantly became a hole again.
How did you discover this? Is this something that was in the manual that I didn't read?
The alternative to this, is selecting the entire "B" (holes and all) and clicking on the "exclude overlapping shape areas" in the Pathfinder pallette and then clicking on the "expand" button to enact it....but that is one extra click.
We should get our own Illustrator forum going here...some of the moderators on the Adobe site are really rude to these types of simple (in their minds) questions.
Have a great day...and by the way...my wife and I were in T City in August for our anniversary. Nice town!
There must be a lot of sign work there...being a touristy area and all.
Thanks again for your input.
Oh,nobody has answered my question though...what's a MAC? Is that like a Kenworth semi or something? (hehehe...sorry couldn't resist)
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Dave, OS9 is readily available on eBay.
Posted by Fred Weiss (Member # 3662) on :
My Awkward Computer ?
Mostly Amortized Computer ?
My Apathetic Computer ? Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Corel crashing can be greatly reduced by changing the default "undo" settings. The default setting is 99 levels of "UNDO". Reduce that to about 25 and suddenly you will have a stable corel draw.
The "undo" will use up memory and sudddenly you get a page fault.
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
MAC
My Awesome Computer
which never gets a virus, worm, trojan horse, which doesn't need a new security patch EVERY FRIGGIN WEEK, and which never crashes on start up.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
You must be thinking of Win 3.1.
I like the fact that all of my neighbors (and probably 99.9% of my town) uses pc's.
But I will admit, Mac's are kinda cute. Posted by Bill Modzel (Member # 22) on :
Gees Dave, There you go getting practical again. I wonder how many lost production hours the "other" guys and gals have spent the last couple of months fixing their workstations after all the MS worms came crawling out.
Ya just gotta sit back and smile sometimes.....
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
Nope, not thinking Win 3.1.... My loaded Dell 4500 with Win XP has crashed 3 times on start up.
I won't even THINK of opening e mail with this machine. Oh man... I just thought of it...slapping head.
Going back over to the mac now.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Hmmmm...I'd give Dell a call on that. That seems awefully strange to me. I haven't experienced a crash on any XP systems I have.
I have a Gateway 2.4 ghz, 2-200gig hd's, 1 gig RDram,128 mb vid, etc on this (my main) computer.
I have a Dell 4500 933mhz, 512 mb ram, 2-75gig hd's, etc .
And two computers I built myself with AMD 1.6 ghz, 512 mb ram, & 80 gig hd's.
All but one of the last two have XP on them...and I haven't had a single crash yet.
The Windows 98SE machine has been very reliable too.
So I'm not sure why you'd have a problem...but yeah, I'd definately give Dell a call.
The only problem with Dell now is that they have contracted their tech support out to India in an effort to save money. So, hopefully, you'll get someone you can understand.
Gateway...on the other hand still uses US techs..one of the reasons I bought from them last time.
One thing that can screw up a work computer is having a bunch of video games installed. They seem to have a propensity for causing problems. So, if you're into games you might consider dumping them off your Dell if it's used as a work computer.
In all honesty, I believe Mac's to be a very good computer. It's easier now to share files, etc between the two platforms.
It used to be that Adobe was geared towards Mac's...but that's obviously no longer the case. So, with the power, programs, and vast choices in hardware at a much more reasonable price...I've decided to stick with PC's. And I remain very compatible with most people to avoid issues.
I wouldn't hesitate at all to use a Mac though if the opportunity presented itself. If I could just figure out where that other mouse button went though?! Hehehe.
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I never knew that was available, or how to do it. Isn't it weird though that there are no "uniform / non-uniform" type buttons to click on after entering a new size....? This seems like such a basic way of doing things and they do include it with the "object/transform/scale" options. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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