do you think this would work, and look good.......
this is a 4'x16' sign for some friends of mine. I'm thinking of using white poly carb. airbrush the gold colors onto the face, then mask the letters and coat out with opaque black. the letters and diamond being the only thing lit up at night. any thoughts? thanks....... Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
The concept for the look is okay but the layout doesnt work for me. Unless this is their logo I would rework the design.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
I agree. The other thing I question is "will the gold have enough constrast during the day to be easily readable?"
Posted by Danny Busselle (Member # 3746) on :
Man Your Susppose to "KISS" It. where are you going with what you have to say. Look your a Customer Driving at 35 to 45 mph you have 8 to 15 seconds to get your message across! Look at it and Fix it. It will be Great Posted by Dave Utter (Member # 634) on :
that is actually a simplified version of their logo. (I didn't do the original) The original totally wouldn't have worked on a lighted sign. I agree on the design, and if it were up to me, I'd completely drop the gold and silver exchange, and just have the Seymour's jewelry part, but, The gold and silver exchange, I believe, is the bulk of their business. I may do a little more work on the design, and have a serious heart to heart talk with them on it.
Still, I need opinions of whether the concept of the black background, and just the letters lighting up is feasible. I just don't know if it would have much impact at night, without the entire sign being lit. thanks so far guys.
Posted by Jeff Ogden (Member # 3184) on :
Dave The concept is fine...its the gold that will give you trouble. It's a b*tch to spray, and the metal particles try to block the light. You'd be better off using imit. gold colors, IMHO.........
Posted by Peter Schuttinga (Member # 2821) on :
The opacity of the gold would be a concern. Why not try a white (clear) outline on a least Seymours and jewelry, this should give better contrast for both night and day.
Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :
Dave, the simplist and most effective method to reproduce that sign face is to use clear poly carb and work from the back.
Mask out your letters. Spray the black, then airbrush imitation gold and white to get that effect of shiny letters. Keep your gold coats as light as possible and fill with the white afterwards.
I agree with Jeff ... real gold is a bitch!
Posted by Dave Utter (Member # 634) on :
hehe. I guess I'm bad at explaining myself....duh. I had planned on using imitation gold, a chrome yellow, and maybe a brown Gripflex or equivilant to achieve the gold color. Sorry for the confusion.
Jon you may be right on the back spraying. If I'm correct, wouldn't the clear poly with a whit back spray behind my gold colors allow more light through?
I will also work on an outline around the letters to try to improve the contrast. Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
Dave,
I would proceed exactly like Jon stated on clear poly -- black first in reverse. Then airbrush your yellow and imitation gold to simulate the gold; gray for the bevel on the diamond. Then blow white over the whole panel ultra thin. Now you will be viewing the layout thru the thickness of the poly so all colors will be glass-like and be protected by the UV inhibitors in the poly.
The design can be saved by placing "Gold and Silver Exchange" inside a white panel. Make that copy a san serif alphabet, all caps in black. Center the diamond above the white panel, so that your eye reads "Seymour Jewelry" seperately from the rest of the copy.
Otherwise how the hell are ya? -- Bill
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
There are some translucent chrome yellow vinyls available.
A while back, we did a lighted face with opaque marbleized green background. First, we masked the letters and painted the background black to stop all light transmission, then we did the green and marbleization. We stripped the mask and applied the translucent vinyl in the copy area. We actually used a prismatic effect with the translucent yellow and the white plastic. We finished up with a painted black outline. The sign was very dynamic.
We did a similar sign a couple of years later for a different customer. Unfortunately, I cannot find photos of either at this moment.
I found the translucent chrome yellow to be an acceptable gold for both applications. Gold paints and Gold leaf would not illuminate properly.
Posted by Dave Utter (Member # 634) on :
just peachy! and you?
Posted by dveenema (Member # 833) on :
do it in reverse on clear. You can get gripflex or lacryl in metallic gold. and don't put a outline on those letters! yuch!
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Dave, I suggest moving the diamond over into the place of the apostrophy. I would bring your eye more to the company name and give you room to play with the "gold & silver exchange".
I've done a few jobs like this and always had better luck on poly from the inside. But I have to be honest, the airbrushing is a pain. Getting the right amount of coverage without blocking the light is tricky.
Not sure if this would work, but instead of painting the white behind it all, would a frost vinyl work as well to diffuse the light evenly?
Rapid
[ September 17, 2003, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: Ray Rheaume ]
Posted by Dave Utter (Member # 634) on :
a little rework..............
Posted by Blue Grass Neon, Inc. (Member # 4073) on :
Dave, What you are wanting to do is very simple. Use a piece of clear polly-carb. Work on the back and cut everything in reverse (1st cut is mask). Simply apply your graphic on your material and spray using Matthews Acylic Polyurathane N923SP. Mix with reducer and catalyst. Ratio should be 3-1-1. Matthews is great it will only take 2 to 3 coats before it is totally blacked out. After you let it dry for about 30 min. simply peel up your mask, then overlay your gold vinyl (Avery A6247-O) and any other color you need. It wont matter if you over lap the black. Try this we do it all the time and it works.
"SIGN"cerely, Mike L.
Posted by Blue Grass Neon, Inc. (Member # 4073) on :
Oh yea Dave, Best way to light this baby is with EGL 6500 snow white neon 15 or 13mm glass. Beauty of it you will only need 2 France "E" series self adj. transformers. Total cost neon and tran should be about $400.00.
"SIGN"cerely, Mike L. Posted by Laura Butler (Member # 1830) on :
I have another idea. Make a plain black box with floresant lights inside. Lay down a paper pattern of the design, cut the letters out of the black alum. box, then cut the letters out (a little wider) of acrylic, put gold intermediate vinyl of the letters, and then glue the letters to the box sign.
So now you have two dimensions; a sign that lights cheaper than neon, and a sign that lights up real good at night.
Posted by Dave Utter (Member # 634) on :
I forgot one thing, that I didn't think was important at the time. These are replacement faces for an existing sign.......I'd stick a smiley here, but none of the images are working on this page right now. Steve! help buddy....what's up!
Posted by Dave Utter (Member # 634) on :
now they are working....nevermind Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :
Replacement Faces for existing sign!!!!
Ran into that problem this morning Measured the existing double face pylon sign twice!!!! (old addage: Measure twice ... cut once) 1800mm x 1200mm with a 25mm cover edge on the channels. I cut the poly carb sheets down to 1790x1190 allowing a 3/8ths inch clearance to slide the new sheets in.
What we found was the box was not only not SQUARE! but several prodruding welds in the corners of the channels made our new faces not fit
Out come the trusty angle grinder I always keep in the van. Great for removing stubborn screws etc on installs ... cuts poly carb like butter. But what a mess!!! Took another 1/4" off 2 sides of the sheets and the footpath looked like it had snowed
We got the faces fitting eventually. I hadn't quoted on the install cost. Try not too. Yer never know what's in there behind old signs.
Customer was delighted and payed on the spot
Anybody want for free two old 6x4' SUZUKI moulded tub face poly carb faces .... the make real mean fish ponds hahahhaahahah
Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
Better layout, Dave. If you're using pan faces -- adjust for flange. What about H bar? How will that affect your layout? Pan faces will get the image further from bulbs, but will create layout problems. Flat faces 4' x 16'. huh? You'll need some Ti-Bak wind btaces. Sounds like a job to design, but have others execute -- knowing your shop and manpower limitations.
Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :
Just realised! 16'x4'
You will probably be having to use 2x 8x4 poly carb sheets with an "H" section joiner.
If you make a minimal adjustment your layout to put that joiner down between the "r" and "S" it can be painted all black with no light leakage problems.
Posted by Dave Utter (Member # 634) on :
been dong a little rethinking. I figured on pan faces from the begining. The cabinet is not very thick, and it will have to have the pans so i don't get the bulb lines. I can get 4x16 but shipping is a killer. I've opted for a 4 by 10 and a 4 by 6 on each side, with a joint. actually it has an 8' and a 4' jointed now. I would reuse them but they are embosed.
Actually Bill, I don't think this one will be a problem to do. I have a buddy up the road with a paint booth, and with my sign crane (40') it shouldn't be too much.
I showed them the new design, and they still want the first one. I'll have to try to convince them that the new one will be easier to read.
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Man Your Susppose to "KISS" It. where are you going with what you have to say. Look your a Customer Driving at 35 to 45 mph you have 8 to 15 seconds to get your message across! Look at it and Fix it. It will be Great ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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