Last night, we tried laying down a project of ours. It's a 32 foot long by 33 inch high sign for a goalie equipment store. We printed using a Gerber EDGE onto White Scotchcal 220 2mil vinyl. The substrate we are using is Dibond (which is a VERY nice material, btw).
As we layed it down, we found that there were quite a few bubbles left after pulling off the premasking tape. We tried different methods, such as dry-mount as well as with Rapid Tac, and we found that the Rapid Tac method worked better for us. We also found that spreading the Rapid Tac around a bit (as opposed to just spraying it on) produced less bubbles.
We were just wondering if anyone has additional suggestions as to how we can prevent the bubbles from appearing. Is it normal to get many bubbles on a project like this? Keep in mind we are using thinner vinyl than regular. We have a digital camera, so we can take pictures of the bubbles if someone wants an idea of what we're looking at.
Thanks in advance,
Dylan Cooke & Laurie Nahirney
PS. We've been removing the bubbles with a "bubble pen" (I don't know the official name for it; it's a pen with a sharp pin, used to pop bubbles), most of them have been disappearing, and some even have fluid underneath. We have already noted to use less Rapid Tac next time.
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
most of those bubbles will dissipate in the sun...at least that's what i tell my customers! unless they are really big and trapped they will eventually go away. pop the rest with an exacto. also use a good stern squeegy...i always use the gold 3m ones...more expensive but worth it.
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
check your squeegee edge. if you don't know this, rub the edge on the center rib of another squeegee and turn it over and do the other side.
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
I get the impression you may be new to this, so if you're using the squeegee's that come with your vinyl, throw them out! Use the Gold squeegee's like Karyn suggested and keep the edges sharp. If you have bubble at all, let alone ones with solution in them on a smooth surface like Dibond, then I'll bet you have a squeegee with a few notches in the edge.
Good luck and let us know......
[ September 09, 2003, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: Chuck Gallagher ]
Posted by Peter Schuttinga (Member # 2821) on :
When using RT using more is generally the preferred method. Flood the area, spread it around as needed, apply graphic, squeegy, soak the premask, wait, remove the pre-mask, finish up using a roller to remove final bubbles. Works for me. Would love to learn the dry application method as I'm sure it would be faster, especially on cool days.
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
Hey Peter,
It's a piece of cake! Rough and dirty, take one side (which ever is more convienent) and remove a couple inches of the paper. (Top to bottom or left to right, either way) After getting it aligned tack the exposed vinyl down with your squeegee. Unroll the backing paper as you go only unrolling a little at a time as you squeegee down the vinyl. The paper stays rolled under the vinyl and since the vinyl rides on top, the rolled paper keeps it off the substrate, if you don't roll off too much backing paper. Also with the paper on most of the application it keeps it aligned if you aligned it in the beginning.
Good luck!
Posted by LaurieNahirney (Member # 4121) on :
Thanks for all of your suggestions.
This morning I tried laying down a section of this sign, and tried all of the suggestions. I found that reading the instructions on the bottle offered the most support.. whoops!
After positioning and applying the vinyl, I sprayed the transfer tape with RT (like it says on the instructions) and squeegied that (with a freshly sharpened squeegy), and when I tried to pull the tape off it seemed that the tape had seperated from the adhesive backing, which made it a little bit messy.. but I was astonished to find that after pulling off the adhesive (which was easy and left no residue) there were ABSOLUTELY NO bubbles!
Quite a difference, I must say... we learned our lesson about reading the instructions, that's for sure. (until now, our only knowledge about RT was the knowledge that our trainer gave us)
Again, thanks for all your suggestions.. they sure helped!
Dylan Cooke
Posted by LaurieNahirney (Member # 4121) on :
quote:finish up using a roller to remove final bubbles.
What do you mean by a roller? So far, all we've been using to remove bubbles is a bubble pen and a squeegy.
Posted by Peter Schuttinga (Member # 2821) on :
There are rollers available form your vinyl suppliers. They work well and do not scratch the vinyl. There are also rollers used for gluing up panels, check you local hardware store. Most are 4" wide, made of rubber, with a metal handle. I'm going to try the dry application method as per Chuck suggestion. Thanks.
(edit typos)
[ September 10, 2003, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: Peter Schuttinga ]
Posted by Diane Crowther (Member # 120) on :
Applying RT to the transfer tape is the final step to ensuring no bubbles. By relaxing the adhesive hold you aren't pulling the vinyl up with removing the transfer tape. As you found out, it relaxes the adhesive very quickly to where it actually separates from the transfer tape. You can prevent this by removing transfer tape within a minute of spraying with RT. If the piece is very large, spray it in sections to keep the adhesive from separating.
Even if I do a dry application, I often use RT to remove the transfer tape.
Also, keep the transfer tape very low and close to the surface as you pull it back on an angle to remove it. That puts less pull on the vinyl and will help to minimize bubbles that can occur when removing transfer tape.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Glad you brought it up !!
Most folks that complain about "bubbles after using Rapid Tac or Tac II" are NOT spraying enough on the substrate. The folks that just mist it on are actually "traping air' when the vinyl rests on the area that is wet (in between all the DRY spots) now the "dry spots" are actually air pockets under the vinyl between the wet spots !
Did that make any sence to anyone? think I'm seeing spots, maybe I'm too dry, oh hell, I'm off for a Myers and Gingerale !!
And to those who feel the "wet method" (with Rapid Tac) is slower, well, I don't think yer doin it right fellars.He he he
Roger
Posted by Mike Clayton Graphics (Member # 723) on :
Thanks Roger, that makes perfect sense!
MC
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Thanks Mike, ya know sometimes (after explaining this and other areas to countless people by phone or keyboard, for 16 years) I get to wonderin if I get the points across or just confuse the issues.
Good to hear a little feedback ! Thanks again, Roger
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to those who feel the "wet method" (with Rapid Tac) is slower, well, I don't think yer doin it right fellars.He he he![[Dunno]](graemlins/dunno.gif)