We have almost had this discussion before but I think the word was "traditional". I posted a pic on the portfolio page of a project that I thought was old school or traditional and CJ said he didn't see any thing old school. That got me thinking what is old school or traditional? To me old school is a pinstripe design that uses a slightly fatter line with no fill. Much like Dutch or Dr J {for lack of a better example} I think of Kafka, Jim Norris and Wizard when I think of modern pinstriping. Super tight designs with lots of color and lots of fill.
One style looks at home on a primered duece with steel wheels and white walls and the other on a smoothed out 40 with billet everything and latemodle headlights and running gear.Both are awesome but both have there place.
Am I close or am I way off, whats your deffinition.This was directed to CJ and Joey because it has come up in the past but I would like for anyone that would like to give their deffinition to do so. Thanks
[ August 29, 2003, 02:55 AM: Message edited by: Ryan E Young ]
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
Good topic there Youngster and one I'm sure we'll all agree on I think the definition of old school is gonna depend largely on what school and how old. The "modern" striping that was started in the fifties has evolved so many times over the years. I remember looking at pics in the magazines from the west coast in the late fifties and early sixties of the striping. It looked nothing like what I saw on the east coast. There were some things in common though. Almost everything was done in one color. The colors used were of great contrast, like white on black, you could see it a mile away, subtle wasn't in yet. The colors used were limited too. Black, white, red, dark blue and silver. The design work was pretty open compared to whats done today. In the sixties the styles started breaking out in all directions. I remember the first striper I ever saw, Nicky Rorro out of Jersey City, and all the cool birds he worked into his designs. To me, though, the epitome of classic or "old school" is the deck lid on that flamed black 32 highboy that was in all the magazines in the sixties. Ed Roth was the striper. The design spread out over a lot of the deck lid, white on black of course. Being the gearhead you are, I know you've seen it.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
I think Georges answer has it down pretty well, and to add a bit I would say that old school hasn't much to do with just pinstriping but the over-all look of the vehicle itself. Old School isn't all that technical, just using what was around the household or in the garage to change a little here are there is more to the point.
When I started out striping around 52-53 there were those who left their rides in flat black and those who finished them off in candies and pearls. I hope you realize that the fact was that back then, there were 3 stage paints even though they were in lacquer and the pinstriping most used was in single colors as George stated.
George, the 32 Highboy you mentioned belonged to Tom McMullen a scrawny little outlaw biker who was also the editor of Hot Rod magazine. His 32 was the worlds most beautiful Hot Rod for many years. These days its different but his rod inspired Tom "Ichey" Otis to build his 32 the same way, old school I guess because he also won that same title at the Oakland Roadster show several years back. Old school is not half-ass but more to what low brow art is all about.
Posted by CJ Allan (Member # 52) on :
The term "Old Skool", (however ya want to spell it) has become no more than a......
"VERY OVERUSED BUZZWORD"
that is currently being used mostly by "Clueless magazine editors/writers, to pump out their rags, and, yuppies to peddle their dad's/uncles old junk on e-bay.........!!
It's as meaningless as "Billet"..........
in other words just a modern sales pitch tool..!!
Remember......YOU asked.....
................cj
The bike you posted on the portfolio page is like I said."Damn nice work" and as far as I can see...Top Notch...........
BUT..........Flat black, is just another one of Todays FADS, and has nothing to do with how or why we used primer on our cars in the 50s.........
WE just didn't have the money to have em painted, and usually most of the work was done by the owners, who didn't run down with a hundred grand and say build one just like the one so-an-so has.........
And I NEVER saw bikes that were flat blak.......cause we could always manage to get some kind of color on em......and it was a matter of PRIDE to do so..........
"Old Skool"........?? I don't have a clue......and don't want one!! This is how I see it...!!I'll stop in to visit the next time I'm down your way,,,,and maybe we'll sssling a little paint together... Posted by CJ Allan (Member # 52) on :
Joey... Tom was never an outlaw biker........he tried but that's all
Tom McMullen was a free-lance photographer hangin around Lions drag strip (and all the others in SoCal at the time) with his Hi-Boy..........Had a little hot rod electrical shop (AEE) makin wiring kits. He got a bike...... Broke his back....... and he and Rose started making making sissy bars and hi-back motorcycle seat while in his wheelchair.
Got rich making junk parts.........."AEE" (Automotive Electrical Engineering) Started publishing Motorcycle, Car. Knife , Gun magizines..etc........"TRM"...... and finally slammed one of his jet planes into the side of a mountain ...........
But he was never an outlaw biker............. He was a fairly friend for several years, and I designed & made several prototype mc parts for him.........but he found a cheaper way to make everything, and managed to turn good stuff into junk.....
That's the basic picture.....
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
CJ, you know there were alot of wanna-bee outlaws that hung out at Kanters on Fairfax in Hollywood. I was familier with who's who and knew that Tom was partners with that Ying guy from Japan which I believed went down with him in the plane. I guess I am just as guilty as Ryan at this point but not as guilty as you, you outlaw biker you
At that time I was a shirt designer who road with the boys from the valley, not as a wanna-bee, more a friend and business associate. Magoo from San Francisco introduced me to Tom, it was around 65. I'm not much for giving info to those particular instances as my number doesn't start with 411, but you know who I'm speaking about.
Posted by Ryan E Young (Member # 2325) on :
quote:Originally posted by CJ Allen
BUT..........Flat black, is just another one of Todays FADS, and has nothing to do with how or why we used primer on our cars in the 50s.........
WE just didn't have the money to have em painted, and usually most of the work was done by the owners, who didn't run down with a hundred grand and say build one just like the one so-an-so has.........
CJ I never for a min. tried to pass the bike off as old school because of the primer. My reference is to the effect of both primer and old school paint on a new style bike. We did it for the same reason you guys did the old hotrods. Right now I dont have the time and my buddy doesnt have the money or want to be off his bike to paint it. When I paint that bike it will be kick ass wild and I will post pics on the other board you and I go to. I am sure that I will catch all kinds of crap over there but thats cool becouse I do not do things just to be in the fad of the moment.I am not a Johnny come lately that thinks it is the cool thing to be a greaser or a want to be outlaw biker. I was in this kind of stuff before it was cool. I just love building cars and bikes with my own hands.I have since I was 12, building model cars and spray painting my bike.
I know what you are talking about when it comes to new guys to the bike or Hot Rod scene. Some of these guys have never turned a wrench or ever had an original idea. They come into our circles with words such as old school or rat rod and it becomes the trendy thing to do. Then any one young that uses the lingo is looked at as a poser. It is a weird thing to watch something you enjoy taken over by the stuck up trendies that have no respect for the history of a lifestyle.
Look at my history of projects. Hudson AMC Kawasaki and Rambler. I think it is hard to say I have ever followed the trends.
"Old Skool"........?? I don't have a clue......and don't want one!! This is how I see it...!!I'll stop in to visit the next time I'm down your way,,,,and maybe we'll sssling a little paint together... [/QB]
Old school .....????? I dont know either but it sure is fun to learn first hand by you old fogies!!
Much Respect to my peers and mentors Ryan Young
Posted by CJ Allan (Member # 52) on :
Hahhha.......... We're all on the same page......... "NTW"......not to worry......
.............cj
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
the bikers i rode with in pa. was one guy had a an old knuckle head. he painted everything flat black, never washed it...and the name for such a bike was a "ROACH"!!!! i guess the name said it all.....hehehehehehehe.
Posted by Danny Busselle (Member # 3746) on :
Hi Guys This Has Given me a lot of chuckles. How Sweet it is. Been there Done that. Hi Cj and Joey. Sure takes me back through it all THANKS For the Memories Hope to see ya Cj. By the way Rayan Nice "HIGHWAY SCOOT"
[ August 29, 2003, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: Danny Busselle ]
Posted by Ryan E Young (Member # 2325) on :
Boy thats the last time I put CJ and Joeys name on the heading of a post. Post killers!!!!! Are we the ony few on this board that paints or stripes
Posted by Ed Ryall (Member # 3221) on :
I'm a wantabe stripe /painter. Old School is different to different people. Where they live, their age, and their attention to detail. I think old school to me is 40,50's style. Basic, what the majority of the public would walk past. Those who are not in to the cult or paint history would flutter around the more colourful more clutered work.
Posted by Mark Yearwood (Member # 2723) on :
I still can't get over that episode of American Chopper where Paul was talking about doing the "old school" gold leaf on that black bike and then you see the guy putting vinyl leaf on there. Some really nice 23k spun or variegated leaf would have been much more fitting for that old style bike.
I've been doing sign and custom work for 21 years now and grew up in a paint and body shop helping my Dad. I got a taste of hot rodding because Dad was always taking something and cutting it up, shooting lacquer, freak drops, lace, shaving door handles and sunken antennas...that was one of his favorite body mods. I read more custom car mags than school books when I was a kid cause he had a collection all the way back to the fifties.
Now, I do a little bit of everything in this biz from signs to cycles, even with some "new school" ways...but I'm glad I can use some of what I learned growing up to produce art on things with wheels using my hands and brain as tools.
To me, "old School" means something designed, built, hammered, shaped, drawn, painted, sweat on, bled on or otherwise handcrafted using techniques from the past, regardless if it's flat black or not.
Now, where did I put those old school decals??!! hehe
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