Ok, I’m confused here. I need somebody to please help me figure this one out…
Our ex-boss at the sign shop we used to work at priced a 18” x 24” x 3/16 Duron hardboard Yard sign, Black steel frame, lettering on both sides for $26.50.
From the suppliers we deal with, this sign frame with blanks would cost us about $15.00. About 6 sq. ft vinyl a’ $1.50 sq. ft = $9.00
Total: $24.00
Ok, the customer had to buy 10 signs to get this price. But that makes a profit of $25.00
So what is wrong here, What is a fair price for something like this?
Any comments are appreciated.
/David and Jenna Nyman
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
As described,.....$35.60
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Hiya David, Maybe you can buy your materials a little cheaper if you shop around and try to buy smarter. My guess is that the $26.50 was the total cost of the sign including labor, but, not including any mark ups on materials, profit or overhead. Even if I was to consider screen printing the copy on a job like you describe, I'm coming up with a price of about $45 each.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
Similar cost on a sign I just did. By the time laid out the sign, pulled out the vinyl, cut, weed, mask, cleaned the blank, applied the vinyl, got out some screws and assembled the sign, and printed up the invoice, I had an hour into it. Cost, $82.50. My materials were a powder paint coated banjo frame and a white aluminum blank. But my copy involved a 2 color logo with registration. A single color cut out all at once and applied all at once might have been $10 to $15 cheaper.
Posted by Mark Smith (Member # 298) on :
This is the trouble sign shops get into all the time, and what I teach (preach?) about at the sign shows.
Your "ex-boss" didn't understand the importance of charging for labor.
Download ProfitWatch (it's free) and see what your hourly rate should be: ProfitWatch
Once you have a handle on your hourly rate, never, ever fail to charge it. It is the key to your success. The shops that undercharge for their work will soon be out of business. It's inevitable, because even though they don't realize it they can't sustain an unprofitable situation.
As many on the board have suggested, "subcontract to them!"
Best wishes -
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
i've done job site signs with the black iron stick in the ground frame & aluminum panels w/ vinyl lettering for $95 ea.(minimum order 2)and i thought that was a steal! r/e people can kiss my lilly white a$$...they can buy from pierre.
[ August 04, 2003, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: KARYN BUSH ]
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
Whoa Nellie! How about a splash of cold realism here! We pay $12.30 for that frame.... $4.50 for the metal insert and ANY real estate company can get that blank double sided screened for another $8.00 in minimums of 12 units. You want the job? Get real!
k31
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
realism shmealism, I get $125 for that same thing, actually not cuz I use aluminum, the only hard board is the on I bang my head off of. & I dont sell to realestate companies
lahteee freaking daaaa
[ August 04, 2003, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
Posted by Rosemary (Member # 1926) on :
I agree with you too.
He always underprices everything anyway.
[ August 04, 2003, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: Rosemary ]
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
Pierre
I like to get real here too! Were is your mark up on the frame plus inserts.. Layout cost plus Overhead and Adminisrations?
Carrying and handle fees to and from suppliers or customer?
$125 single. Discount up to 25% on bigger orders.. These are Reusable products!
To sell for cost only NEVER!
Can sell them new inserts for better pricing but with new layout billing. Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
I hate having to use the same computer! Maybe you're sort of right. We supply that same sign SCREENED for $32 in volume. If its a bunch of custom crap, then I can see more bucks. Rosemary, Lat and I always argue about overpricing.
k31
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
I just ran it at 40%. If the copy is film with a single color copy only, not screened it would STILL only take it to $58.00 in volume.
k31
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
PRICING???? who needs pricing?
[ August 04, 2003, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
Posted by Brian Diver (Member # 1552) on :
Just this morning I had a "contractor" - backyard type call and ask about signs on that plastic stuff. Didn't have any design or know what he really wanted to say on it. He did want a logo and this would go on his truck too! (oohhh more $$ I'm thinking I'll make a ton - take a vacation...ha,ha
Well I ask how many, single or double side. Daryl and he brother Daryl are now scratching their heads and take door number 1 "single" and how about 10. Well I break out estimate (thanks Mark) for a quick quote and say a vinyl would be about $20 ea and before I could say another word Daryl says "Dang thats spensive all the other shops are chargin $5-7 ea." I said C-ya, can't expect him to know the difference between vinyl and screen printing and at this point I don't even want to explain the difference, etc. All he cares about is lowest cost. Even at screen printing I'm not going to bust my butt for $20 and have him whine about it to.
I've heard of cutting prices to the bone but this guy had no design, no logo. What are these shops trying to accomplish competing for that bottom feeder. Posted by Chris Lovelady (Member # 2540) on :
thanks mark smith,
since we have started using the estimate program and re adjusting our hourly rate by using the work sheet provided...what a differance. if you base your price on the guy down the street then you will soon be working for the guy down the street.
some thing that no one has talked about on this thread is overhead, insurance...gas for the truck,payment on the truck...food! all these thing sound be included in the price or you will never eat, drive or a place to work!ajob shuold never be about time and materials.
we as artist are so focused on the the art and project and not the money it takes to stay in business. until you can say "no i will not go down on my price" then it is only a hobbie.
i use to give my work away and was alwas in fear that it was to much and are they going to talk me down.
"there is nothing to fear but fear itself!"
my humble opinion.....chris
P.S hardie board in not an exterior product..also my opinion..
[ August 04, 2003, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: Chris Lovelady ]
Posted by David Nyman (Member # 3399) on :
Thanks for all comments about the pricing problem. I guess we were not so wrong after all because we came up with $70.00 for one, and $59.00 for an order of more than 10 or more. Only difference is that we priced this with aluminum blanks and not Duron Hardboard.
While we were figuring the pricing out we looked at the flyer from the old sign shop and we were kind of surprised about the price 26.50. I will download the “ProfitWatch” and look at it…
I’m just curious about suppliers being that we are kind of in a rural area in Michigan and don’t have a lot of choice close by which we get our supplies from. This turns out to be rather costly for us.
Any suggestions on suppliers close to upper Michigan?
Thanks
David and Jenna Nyman
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
just wrote an estimate last night for 6 of these (on alum) $100 ea. or $88 on 6 pc. order. Just got my $250 dep an hour ago.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Doug
I get $95 each with a cool design two sided. I love it when I'm in line with those I respect.
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
And the rest of us..............?
k31
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
everybody respects a K31 & a 1911sr (I don't really know exactlly what they are, but I know I respect em.)
TWO SIDED!!! I wasn't paying attention, my price was for 1 sided. At least another 50% mark-up for 2 sides usually.
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
Doug, a k31 is a Swiss Carbine in 7.5 Swiss caliber. The 1911sr is the model 1911 Schmidt Rubin long rifle in the same caliber, predecessor of the k31.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Well it looks like we could revisit the issue of regional pricing here. Real estate signs are notoriously cheap because they usually deal with specialty houses in bulk. Normally we get around $80 each here with discounts for quantities. In multiples, $60 and up would be good here.
David Nyman, try giving Wensco Sign Supply a call in Grand Rapids.
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
quote:Real estate signs are notoriously cheap because they usually deal with specialty houses in bulk.
... uh, because they usually deal w/ realtors. Who are notoriously cheap.
$65.00 bux is my cheapest price on a two sided anything, w/ a stand. ($95.00 if it's aluminum)
political signs, screened in mega bulk, on corplast, and w/ flimsey stands may command a more discounted price.
But hey, Realtors, ... they get pretty good money for a sale, don'cha think?
C'mon folks .... we all have bills to pay don't we?
Nettie
Posted by Carl Wood (Member # 1223) on :
Charge 234.67 per sign & be done with it.2-sided .040 aluminum w/black angle iron frame.
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