A couple of summers ago, I was driving thru southern NH and decided to stop and visit a friend who owned a used parts yard. As I pulled up to his place, I saw that all the gold vinyl lettering on his sign out front had peeled off and was shredding as it was falling from the aluminum board. After a few minutes getting reacquainted in his office, the owner asked me to come out to his yard and have a look at his signage. All 5 of his business trucks were in the same condition as his front sign.
We dug out a ladder and I got a closer look at the main sign. It seems that whoever had done the vinyl had used a poor grade and figured that clearing over it would make it last longer. Unfortunately, it did not work. I asked my friend if he had contacted the people who had done the sign to see if they wold repair it. He said they were no longer in business.
After taking laquer thinner to th sign for about 4 hours, I managed to remove all the bad lettering and adhesive, repaint the lettering with One Shot and eventually did all the vehicles as needed. Funny thing was that the laquer only cleaned off where the lettering had failed. The underlying black vinyl held up fine and the clearcoat stayed good everywhere else.
The original lettering was done in a turned gold vinyl. I don't know if it was SignGold, but what ever clear was used did a hell of a job on it. The lettering cracked and shrank, peeling up the clear with it.
I'm just curious, anyone have an idea what would have caused such a drastic failure. Both the south and north faces failed equally, so I'm thinking it was probably the clear, but what would cause it to deteriorate after two years.
Any thoughts?
I'm still newbie with vinyl and don't want to make the same boo boo.
Rapid
[ August 04, 2003, 07:14 AM: Message edited by: Ray Rheaume ]
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Ray,
There are a lot of Gold knock offs out there but only know of a most recent copy of SignGold by Coburn, that may infact not last 2 years outdoors.
But that is not fact just speculation of its life, I'd have to guess it was the clear, why anyone would clear over plain vinyl is beyond me.
Posted by BrianTheBrush (Member # 1298) on :
Ray,
I can speak specifically for SignGold, when I say that some "vinyl" materials CAN NOT be cleared, including Signgold.
SignGold is based on a material made by DuPont, TEDLAR,that was designed to be a grafitti-proof topcoat. Essentially, nothing will stick to it.
I did some experimenting for SignGold about 5 years ago, trying various clears, and adhesion procedures, and met with fairly consistant failure. Even after mechanical adhesion promotion (roughing up the surface), the high-solids automotive clear I was using, peeled up after a few months.
I'm also aware of other "vinyls" (pvc's, pvfs, metalized polyesters) That do not take clear very well.
And, on a sidebar, like Rob...I've always wondered why people clear over vinyl.
Keep on keepin' on,
Brian Briskie
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Brian, Just curious, Is there a specific vinyl to use SignGold over that works best?
The above may have been caused by a bad adhesion to the black vinyl.
Thanks Rapid
[ August 04, 2003, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: Ray Rheaume ]
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
Nope. Wrong, Brian. The clear from por15, Pelucid, will work with ALL vinyl films including SignGold. We've done this for years with no failures.
k31
Posted by BrianTheBrush (Member # 1298) on :
Ray... applying SignGold over any high performance vinyl will work fine. Edge sealing it to the vinyl is also recommended.
It always seems odd to me, and it happens, when people put SignGold, at $40.00 a yard, on top of intermediate vinyl....
Pierre. I'd be interested in knowing if you've ever cleared over SignGold specifically. Unlike most vinyls, which are PVC based, or many other "metal-emulating" materials, which are polyester, SignGold is Tedlar, a PVF (polyvinyl flouride). We've cleared it with more clears than I can remember...and when exposed in the QUV weatherometer chamber..they've all failed. If you have specifics regarding clearing SignGold, by all means contact me! (585-415-7496)
In the meantime, Signgold DOES NOT RECOMMEND clearing the surface of our materials with ANYTHING.
Again, I've been in the sign business for almost 25 years, and can't understand, as I mentioned earlier, why people are clearing vinyl.
Thanks for the input!
Keep on keepin' on,
Brian Briskie
Posted by Steve Aycock (Member # 3612) on :
I have clear coated some vinyl decals for a few reasons. First, some of the vinyl elements were very small with long sharp points. I felt that a clear would be a great edge sealer. The clear I use is a UV protectant, the decals had a lot of pink and red so I fugured I might get greater longevity. Of course clear coat also looks much more glossy than just regular vinyl and I like that.
Steve
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Ray,
Sounds like the gold vinyl was just past its normal lifespan, I know Avery's light gold is only rated for up to 3 years while the rest of the metallics are good for 5.
Paints and clears CAN cause the edges of graphics to pull up, as they dry they shrink a little putting tension on the vinyl underneath.
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
Yu, we have, Brian. We're out of SignGod and only buy it when we're asked for it. Send me a 6"x6" or larger piece.............. I'll mount it on PB or Dibond, Pelucid it and send it back to you.
