I saw a blurb in Sign Builder about a new sign panel called Extira that is claimed to be the "next-generation, exterior grade, treated wood composite panel". To me it sounds like Medex, but maybe improved water absorption resistence?
Was wondering if anyone was familiar with this or had tried it.
They have a web site if you are interested. www.extira.com Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
i heard about it too...and i think it is medex with some kind of special paper or finish...i know our local lumber yard stocks it but i haven't bought any yet...might test it on some of my own stuff for shyts and wiggles.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Hey Karyn...On their website you can order a free sample.
Posted by Bill&Jane Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
We should all order free samples and in the box where it mentions how did you hear about us, put "Letterhead web site, you should be a vendor!" Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
In the days before PVC and HDU, Medex was poised to have a huge impact on the sign substrate market - IF IT HAD WORKED!
Lots of people found out the hard way it just wasn't true (outdoors). Whether this new material can do what it seems to claim, remains to be seen in real life use, not some 24hr soak-and-swell test in a lab. Show me the sign after a year.
Posted by Bruce Deveau (Member # 1600) on :
After what we all went through with Medex, I wouldn't take the chance...Medex lied to us. Period. And we paid the price by having to re-do thousands of signs for free. Why should we believe another composite panel will work?
Bruce
Posted by Dave Utter (Member # 634) on :
remember the old adds in the sign magazines that showed the medex with water beading up on it. That sends cold chills down my spine. Man what a nightmare. That stuff literally exploded if moisture got in it. Even edge sealing didn't work. This stuff may be different but............ it has wood in it, and well....... Sorry, Yeah Right! I'm still having flashbacks.
Posted by TransLab (Member # 470) on :
From their website...
Testing ensures quality. The 30-minute boil test measures moisture resistance under extreme conditions.
Geez, how come I never thought of boiling a sign. New sales pitch for customers 'Well this here sign is boil resistant'
Posted by Robert Larkham (Member # 2913) on :
Hey, I'll throw a free sample in the backyard for a year and check it out. I may even bury a piece and really get extreme. If anyone can wreck it I can.
Posted by Bruce Deveau (Member # 1600) on :
Rob, I tested Medex...compared a raw cut piece to a rounded edge peice (Medex said the edges had to be rounded off a bit). Both panels were painted the same. The rounded edge piece looked great after a year, while the raw cut piece was starting to take on water. I assumed the stuff was great as long as you prepped it right. I even sent in a photo to signcraft who published it as evidence that Medex was ok as long as you followed manufacturer advice for finishing. Well, shortly after, all hell broke loose. Like a time bomb, the signs started disintegrating.
Even testing doesn't always guarantee success.
Bruce
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
Whether or not Medex intentionally lied is not the point. The fact is it was tested in conditions different than that in which it was used. The Medex folks wanted to put it on the market right away, so they tested under "simulated" conditions (like a 'boil test'), and based on that, made all sorts of used-car sales pitch promises regarding longevity.
I actually had a couple of Medex signs that held up sort of okay, because I edge-coated with epoxy - but what a PITA that is. What I disliked was that it was very heavy and it carved like shyt. Then the horror stories started coming in about signs turning to mush. No thanks.
The Medex fiasco was one reason I stayed away from HDU for the first few years it was out, just to see if the stuff was going to explode, collapse, turn to jelly or start feeding on small children and animals when you put it ouside. I think a lot of people got real shy of manufacturers product claims after the affair de Medex.
As for this new stuff? See you in five years...
Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
I requested a sample piece. I'm at least willing to test it and give it the benefit of doubt. Never know, maybe they did it right this time.
Posted by EmpY (Member # 138) on :
The MSDS on the extira website makes for good reading, concerning using a respirator when cutting it, and the dust cloud being an explosion hazard. The water resistant properties seem to stem from phenolic resins and parrafin wax. However, on their page which shows it's properties: 24-Hour Soak: % Water Absorption 9.0 % Thickness Swell 2.0
9 percent water absorption and 2 percent thickness swell after 24 hours soaking. So, how water resistant is that compared to other materials like MDO plywood? Assuming the panel is primed and painted *properly* those numbers may be insignificant.
They also mention any 90 degree edges should be "eased" to provide better paint film bonding. And not to use certain kinds of paints. If they provide a how-to sheet with every order sold, they might eliminate lots of potential problems. But I don't picture this happening at the lumber yard near me that is a distributor.
I've tried using the recycled wood/plastic deck material on the router table and it cuts beautifully. I have only made two small signs from it so far and they are installed on a porch with an overhang that protects them from some of the bad Chicago weather. So far after two years they look as good as new. As deck material, it's got a 25 year outdoor warranty.
I've glued up some panels approx. 18x24 and as soon as I get some inspiration I'll try cutting something larger and see how it holds up.
[ July 24, 2003, 12:42 AM: Message edited by: EmpY ]
Posted by Richard Swartz (Member # 372) on :
This was the response from the company when I inquired about the product:
Thanks for your interest in Extira(TM) Treated Exterior Composite. I understand your skeptisism based on your experience with Medex, we hear that comparison all the time. Although our physical properties on paper look to be very similar, Extira greatly out performs Medex in practice. Extira is manufactured utilizing a patented sealed press process giving it superior water resistance properties. This process is over 20 years in the making, and is also used to produce a very successful trim product, MiraTEC(R) Treated Exterior Composite, that's been on the market for over 4 years. Extensive testing and R&D has been done on both MiraTEC and Extira over the last 7+ years. This represents the start of the current generation of the sealed press process. I'd be happy to fax you a fact sheet on the internal and independent laboratory testing that's been done on both products to show you that Extira is a revolutionary product that will outperform any other product on the market today.
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
Thanks for the update Richard, It all sounds good on paper doesn't it?
Well, not that good - it still sounds like tapdancing to me. Words are cheap and we've heard them before. All the lab tests in the world that conclude it will "outperform" Medex, are far from reassuring. They will keep hearing that Medex comparison untill thay show documented, independent, unbiased, and photographic results of about three years of real life exposure in real sign applications.
Personally, at this stage, even if they GAVE the product to me I would not use it in an exterior job. Once bitten, ten times shy.
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
I heard an interesting theory on why Medex failed in the weather despite passing numerous "soak" tests. Water, as we know, exists in both liquid and vapor. While the Medex resins were able to block liquid water (because of surface tension), water vapor - which is individual molecules of water - was able to penetrate, until under certain atmospheric conditions, it turned back into liquid water, inside the Medex. This is what made Medex signs seem to "explode" and turn to mush. Sounds plausible to a guy who got a C in high school chemistry, anyway.
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