That is to say I've lost more time in the last few weeks trying new staff, spending time training and re-doing half the jobs and a few days later....starting all over again.!!!
It's faster to do it myself.I spend evenings and weekends fixing signs up.
I know it's all part of being in business.
So how many of you are 'One person Shows"? How do you deal with busy times and finding mature, responsible help when needed?
Anyone looking for a job?
Signed, Frustrated
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
Sure, what's the pay?
I know the frustration of what you're saying. For the most part I have worked alone for the very reasons that you just listed. There have been two exceptions.
For several years I had a high school student that was probably the best young man that I have ever known. He was one of those jewels that you wished you could clone. Unfortantely, he graduated and when off to Oklahoma State.
The other is my son, Mike. He has been working full time with me for about six months and is turning out to be a great asset. He is a lot like me. You can take that as a plus or a minus. Whatever, he helps a lot more than he hinders and frees me to do my thing without a lot of pressure to get "back to work". He is just as "picky" as I am so I'm not having to constantly redo something that is not up to par.
Keep trying is all that I can say. Someone will come along that will be out-of-the-ordinary. When they do, make sure that they know how much they are helping and how appreciative you are. And it is not always just with a paycheck. I worked for someone else for years and never heard them say "Thank You" once, except at the Christmas party when everyone received the usual "You are all doing a fine job".
Until that person comes along you will have to endure some long hours. Just make sure that the hours are filled with what you want to do and not just something to pay the bills.
Good luck.
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
i'm a one person shop and i wish i could find someone that i trusted to help me too! i'm starting to get so busy and i have no idea how i'm going to be able to do everything...i now have a cnc router and i'm able to take on jobs that i used to pass on...but i really need some help. i totally know how you feel...only i haven't made the plunge to hire someone and train them...don't know if i ever will but i kinda doubt it. i wish i knew someone who knew their sh!t and was just looking for part time work here and there. i may try to find someone who will work as a sub because i don't want to get workers comp and pay 941s...of course they will have to have a certificate of insurance...i figure $20-$25/hr would be what i could afford..taxes are up to them...and they WILL get a 1099. i guess i'll just have to see what happens...until then there's no rest for the wicked!
Posted by John Arnott (Member # 215) on :
Hello Shirley. I won't have any more employees. I have had it with the problems and extra cost for insurance, vacations, screw-ups benefits etc. I find it much easier to simply raise prices when things get too busy. The problem is when you just need a box of nails from the store, you have to slow down and do it yourself. I like it by myself much better! John Arnott
[ April 22, 2003, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: John Arnott ]
Posted by Suelynn Sedor (Member # 442) on :
Hi Shirley,
I feel your pain! I have had an employee one or two days a week for about 6 months now. At first she was really keen to learn, and worked quickly and fairly efficiently. I put up with errors and bubbles figuring the more experience she gains the better she will become (just like all of us, right?)Wrong. She is losing interest in the job, and making the same small mistakes over and over. I think she is bored with the mundane weeding and application, but isn't capable of anything else. I'm not sure what to do either, because she really helps free up my time for other things (except when I have to do things over)
Too bad all us gals don't live closer. We could help each other out.
Suelynn
Posted by Pat Phipps (Member # 3617) on :
One monkey show here. When I get busy, I get my brother to help out. He is not in the business but sometimes all you need is another body. Pat
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
Occasionally, people stop by the shop looking for work but I cringe at the thought. Like Raymond, I am far too "particular" about the way I want things done and would be pulling my hair out worrying over someone else who just might not share my need for fastidiousness.
Plus, the average employee loafs WAY too much. Too much hassle for me.
My wife and kids do just fine.
[ April 22, 2003, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
Posted by Dan Sawatzky (Member # 88) on :
Over the years the number of employees has varied greatly.
There are lots of good folks out there and lots of folks I wouldn't hire too.
We have had a maximum or 22 employees, but most often operate with 4-5. Right now I am solo but looking for prospective employees for a bunch of upcoming large jobs.
Generally I like to hire green folks, right out of school and train them. I hire based largely on ATTITUDE. I look for young folks who are eager to learn and listen.
As I've learned to be a better leader I've found that the quality of my help has increased by the same amount.
I've had some VERY fine crew over the years... and like Raymond, my favorites have been my own kids.
-dan
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
One man show here, and I like it that way.
Occasionally I need help and I have a pool of about 5 guys who are usually available to help out. All are reliable and all have other jobs (night shift). They like the opportunity to moonlight and pick up extra money.
Posted by george williams (Member # 516) on :
we had up to 14 employees at one time...after 21 years, my wife went to work for another sign company, i walked in and fired the employees, called the auction company and 6 weeks later sold the property & contents, declared bankruptcy, set up payment with the irs, paid them off and never looked back...a day care center would have been easier and certainly more profitable..i saw my employees literally destroy a new 65' skyhook crane and new ford truck within a year...guess i should have paid more attention to my profit line rather than worrying whether their kids were fed, wives had their operations or if they had work in the winter months....would i have another employee??? my wife and i have made just fine for the last 9 years....by the way...the reason for the irs debt, we found out when our secretary had the measles that the checks for our taxes had been made out and cashed and here desk drawer was full of correspondence for creditors, irs, banks and probably the easter bunny.
Posted by Shirley Carron (Member # 2446) on :
Great idea Ray & Dan...
Change anyone want a job to anyone want to be a father?
Maybe I should have a couple kids, put 'em to work!How old are they when you start workin' them?
Seriously, I'm thinking I'll go solo for the time being.At least until my hair and nails grow back!
Posted by Mike Barnes (Member # 2277) on :
I'm a "One truck parade" here. I've gone the route of 'helpers' before with no sucess. Though it isn't always the easiest, I prefer to work solo. I guess that not having a wife (happily divorced) and no children (that I'm aware of), makes the long hours easier to justify. The 'quality' of most that stop by here looking for work doesn't add to my confidence in adding a new employee any time soon. .....tho most 'applicants' profess to be 'experts' at "putting stickers on stuff". LOL
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
One Gal Gig here. But when I do need help I have lots of helpers. Like if somebody doesn't pay, or if somebody gives me a hard time...I have my big bad mean friends 'help'. (hehehe) When I need an install...I have my big buff friends help me. When I just need company..sometimes I have my blabbermouth friend help...she talks while I work.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
I'm a one-woman gig here too, but ocassionally, I have unpaid slave labor (my husband) I won't dare let him touch a brush or apply vinyl. It's a long slow process, but soon he'll be worth what I pay him. (unpaid slave labor) So far, I've taught him to remove the cling from aluminium panels, hold the 24" roll of application tape while I mask something and he knows how to operate a dremel. He doesn't know which bit is for what, but by golly, he knows how to turn it on!
Posted by Amy Brown (Member # 1963) on :
It's always been just me and then when needed my husband helped out. However, he was just layed off from a job of 16 years so we are getting ready to hit this sign stuff full steam ahead. Neither of us ever want to work for anyone else again!
We have a great relationship and I think we can do what we need or want to do if we just put our minds to it!
My daughter who is almost 4 is already quite the artist. With any luck she'll be doing design work before she's 10!!
Posted by Steve Aycock (Member # 3612) on :
I just recently got to the point where I need help. 2 weeks ago I was just considering what hiring would be like now I'm thinking I have little choice. I'm not complaining, business is good ! I like having work, though hiring help seems a bit daunting at this point. I had a friend with sign experience help me two weeks ago, he was great help when he was here but was late arriving everyday. He didn't know it but he cut out a bonus I was gonna give him just becuase he wouldn't show on time.
My customer from that last project wants to do 4 more vehicles, basically duplicating the last job. I don't know what to do. I could hire "late boy" again, he's good while he's here at least or find someone else. It's gonna be a tough decision. The job goes three times as fast with help.
My wife would help but she's busy keeping our three year old short tornado out of trouble in the evenings and she works daytime.
She would quit her day job but the insurance and benefits make it too good a job to lose, at least at this point.
I really feel your situation here too.
Steve
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
GREETINGS FROM SUNNY MICHIGAN!
I was a one man show for years with occasional part time help as needed. I found that they were as serious about working as I was about putting them to work. I put an ad in the paper for another part timer, not listing my name as the emoloyer, (local sign shop seeking....) with a box number to reply to at the newspaper. In among the junk, I got a real jewel. A college student who loves the business. Now, they have graduated, and are starting year three with me, full time. This person actually shuts off the lights when she goes to lunch!! You have to kiss alot of frogs before you find a princess/prince. Take heart. The key is finding someone who shares your passion for the sign business. Like Ray said, they ARE rare.
Posted by Shirley Carron (Member # 2446) on :
Thanks Everyone for your words,
It's been a pretty rough few weeks.
The 'jewels' are out there, I know.( I know one I once trained and would love to steal her back right about now, or clone her at the very least)
Business is GOOD, which is why I need the help.
Finding the right attitude and enthusiam is the hard part.Plus...look at all the stuff you've gotta know how to do.
Just goes to show us all what a special kind of person/personality sign makers are; what a wide variety of talent and skill is required to do what we do. What a value our trade is.
Amy, maybe Kissy could train your husband, when she's done with hers (her slave).
Sue, how about when my biz is slow, I'll go work there and vise versa. Letterhead Exchange Program?
Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :
I too, am a one man show. I have a couple of teen age kids and a great wife who will help out when things get hetic.
Its hard for the kids to work for "DAD", and I always make sure they know how much I appreciate their help, but they would rather work at McDonalds than take money from the business.
You might have a temp service in your area, like "LABOR READY" or something similar. The temps are good at helping lug signs around, dig holes and such.
The nice thing is you don't have to do any paperwork on them, just send a check off with the rest of the monthly bills. It just takes some organization on your part to get the crafty stuff done first then have the temps help on the mundane work.
Temps are like a box a chocolots...you never know what your going to get! hahahahaah Posted by Jeffrey Vrstal (Member # 2271) on :
One man show here as well. I have had employees from time to time, sometimes it works out really well and other times not.
SO, RAY if you are willing to work dirt cheap you are welcome here ALL OF THE TIME! I'll even kick for lunch once in a while. I'll even keep the race car drivers away from you.
Posted by Kathy Joiner (Member # 1814) on :
This is MAW MAW'S shop! Me, myself and I! I hire a little help with installation, but that's it. Had an average of 25 employees while in the construction business and that was enough to inspire me to be a one person shop.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
one man shop here. My wife will come in to do a bunch of weeding when I'm busy enough to need it.
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
Well, Im an employee, it's interesting about all your view about employees, I always had a hard time finding a good employer. Try working for a guy that has no experience, or motivation, or promises the world and goes back on thier word. I guess it goes both ways, a employer has to always look at what they are offering, before getting someone elses life involved. A employer who taught themselves the business, and hires a person who has maybe worked at a few different shops, may find themselves knowing less than thier employee, very frusterating for an experienced sign person either way. Interesting posts.
Rick
Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
Same situation here. Anybody that could do the job, is in business her/himself. I really feel under pressure by the workload that is piling up, but I can't get acceptable help, other than for weeding and installations. Can I get in on the "Letterhead Exchange Program" ? Posted by ScooterX (Member # 2023) on :
just me, and a part-time helper when things are busy.
to have employees, you have to want to be an employer. managing people is a full-time job, and i suspect that a lot of you want to be "hands on" more than you want to be a boss. employees aren't just cheaper versions of yourself -- they have their own needs and desires.
i've owned three other businesses, and had one or two employees all the time. i always made money by having employees. it freed me up to devote more time to my customers while others did things i didn't want to do. i can imaging hiring somebody to pick stuff up from the store, do the billing, or sweep and clean the shop -- none of those require a trained sign artist -- just an extra pair of hands attached to some common sense.
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
quote: to have employees, you have to want to be an employer. managing people is a full-time job, and i suspect that a lot of you want to be "hands on" more than you want to be a boss.
i always made money by having employees. it freed me up to devote more time to my customers while others did things i didn't want to do.
Oh my gosh, I could have said exactly what Scooter said!
It's so true. You have to want this in order to make it work. I always made money having employees as well.
I also hired my first employee for the very reason you've stated. I was so busy and needed the help so I didn't have to work all night to keep up. It was a wonderful decision for many years for me. And I made LOTS of money.
I went solo only because my then fulltimer quit due to her pregnancy, otherwise she'd more than likely still work for me. I didn't rehire because I changed the dynamics of my biz, built my shop at home and moved out of my storefront. I didn't mess around, changed everything! Wanted to try a different approach. My heart didn't want to retrain at the time.
I'll have an employee again some day. Maybe sooner than later. I'd love more time with my son before he disappears into the school system. (he's nearly 4) So my reasons are quite different. I can handle my workload fine on my own, but my heart says I should be putting my loyalty elsewhere right now. Either that or I have to be brave enough to turn down work again so I can work more part time.
Employees can be a wonderful addition to a growing business.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
In addition to all the great feedback, I must add that you get out what you put in. Self taught people or people with the natural ability are the toughest to please. Why? Because it comes so easy to them, and they don't understand why others cannot acheive what they can, or why they don't share their passion or work ethic. You must hire attitude, everything else can be taught. However, deliberate misuse,(vandalism) of your equipment must not be tolerated. Your appreciation must be shown REGULARLY! When they are getting their car repaired, offer to pay the bill. Send them to the oil change place on you, or pass out some car wash tokens. Buy tickets to a dinner and a play for them and their spouse. These are not freebes! They are earned and worked for. Remember when you worked for someone else? I am bound and determined NOT to be like him. And, in this area, I am a success.
Posted by Dwayne Hunter (Member # 133) on :
Over the past five years, I've had 8 or 9 different part-timers in here. The first and best two are the ones who have been with me forever, Mom and Dad. Mom is absolutely the best weeder of small, intricate decals on the planet!!!(especially since I hate doing them...) Dad is the best overall help I could ever ask for: he can weed (sometimes), he can pick up trash and keep the place neat when we do an install on-site (esp. when we install at a racetrack, where cleanliness is EXTREMELY important) AND he's fun to hang out with. He's also been one of the best PR and sales rep guys I never asked for.
My wife has been a great asset. She's not the best weeder, but she is learning to install. She is DEFINITELY not afraid to tell me when something doesn't look 100%...she may not be able to tell you why, but she'll tell you anyways.
I've hired various part-timers outside my family, too. As stated repeatedly in this forum, ATTITUDE is everything. The levels at which people perform certain tasks and how it VARIES is amazing, interesting and frustrating. Employees are the BEST way to increase production and profit, if you are willing to ask the task of being a manager. When everything is going smoothly, 1 day installs turn into 3 hour installs. Those large orders of multiple decals are miraculously finished before you realize it. The shop is cleaner and you get to go home at 6:00 like the sign says...
I've also had bad experiences, but it's also been as much my fault as theirs. I'm NOT a teacher. I can explain how I do things, and I can show how things need to go, but I'm not blessed with the patience for mistakes. I've also lack the patience for laziness. I cannot tolerate someone not taking initiative, although I'm guilty as well of having 'brain-fade'.
Will I ever hire a full-time employee? Probably not: I don't want to deal with the paperwork. Will I hire more part-timers? Oh yeah. It's fun having someone around. Luckily, Dad is fixing to retire from his real job so I'm really looking into doing larger, more intricate sign installations; Dad likes the 'mechanical' side of the challenge, and so do I.
Posted by TransLab (Member # 470) on :
6 employees ... good team
Learning curves do tend to be long, painful & expensive. I've been fortunate to have little employee turnover, but I'm gonna lose my principal designer in September.
Posted by Ryan Ursta (Member # 1738) on :
I'm a one man show here also. I have a great group of friends that are willing to help out when I need them though. I also have a brother that is a great fabricator when I need some help with confusing stuff. I'll also get my girlfriend to do some weeding every once and a while (even though she dosent like it )
Customers know as soon as they walk in that they might not get rush service. My shop hours sign reads as follows.
Most times i'm here but sometimes i am not, please bear with me im a one-man shop. If im not here and youre in a fix. Call my cell phone (724) 813-2206
Posted by Shirley Carron (Member # 2446) on :
I've trained people before. You're correct it is a long & expensive process. Those who I've trained can get a job at any sign shop, anywhere and would be an asset. Problem is.. when you're this busy you end up hiring those with the most 'related' experience, hoping that you don't have to train them in 'certain' areas and that is what's not working out.
If they 'owned thier own woodworking business' you'd assume they know how to cut a board straight..NOT!
I think I'd rather train someone(who knows nothing) or cut my own boards than go thru this again.
You might even think that having had thier own business, they would understand the time is money thing but alas, you end up frustrated on that point as well.
Maybe my heart isn't into a full time babysitting job right now.
I've got a great little business, it's growing well, it's taken a lot of work to get here.
99% of what I produce are 3 dimensional signs; I've literally had to create my own market for this type of work.
I choose to work with other creative people whenever possible.
I AM the best employer most of these people will ever have. I've worked for ****oles before...I always say 'thanks' for your help at the end of the day, and as I hand them thier paycheck.
I'm going to keep looking though... and since this is what I love to do, I don't mind much working 16 hour days, for now.
Posted by Raymond Quick (Member # 2649) on :
Unlike all of you I do in house sign production at a college. I do not have to worry about paper work, taxes, or other things that a business would. I am supplied with students to help me. My problem is I want to do it all myself. It is easier to do it than train anyone else as several have stated. Because of this I meet myself coming and going and keep getting further and further behind. Not only do I do the signs and banners but I also keep the meadia services equipment running and repair and make books for the library. Reading the different responses, I now realize that I am going to need to train people to help if I want to live to retirement, 1932 more days.
There is so much more I need to learn about. I have only learned what I have to on my software to get by. I have an air brush that I want to learn to use, and so many neat ideas I would like to try out if I only didn’t have to rush to get this job done so I can get the next one done before they start yelling at me wanting to know why it is not done. And there are the students that just stand around or are surfing the web because I do not put them to work. Gee, I bet that if I train them to help me, I could take my lunch and coffee times.
Have learned much coming here, I guess I can add this to lesson learned.
Posted by Santo (Member # 411) on :
Just me! The wife will offer to weed some vinyl at times.
Posted by Tony Lucero (Member # 1470) on :
Our team is myself my wife and two sons. All are full time, all have unified goal to make the biz a success and to grow. We get along very well for people who live and work together. Sure we have our momemts, but we get over them quickly and rarely does anyone have an attitute over a few hours. I ve had non-family employees (all full time) one at a time, over the past 14 years. Each worked an average of 2- 3 years and two started their own sign business' and two went to other established sign businesses (one of those was planning to get a Signs Now franchise. These young people were all pleasant and productive. They learned steadily and all became friends. They all contributed to our growth and success and we gave them encouragement and support when they left the nest. Our last non-family employee has her sign biz off to a nice start and she uses us a sub contractor when practical. I wouldn't like to work by myself, it wouldn't be any fun. Also, I am not a perfectionist, so co-workers don't feel unrealistic levels of pressure and then seem to develop higher standards as their skills develop.
Posted by Tom & Kathy Durham (Member # 3680) on :
Oh My God, dont get me started!! Its just myself, Tom and Cooper the dog who plays greeter...We had a great employee for 6 years a while back, she left for more money...had one recently, she came in high as a kite one day, threw a fit after I questioned it...she had been going down hill for a while. We put a years worth of training and understanding and every type of help you can for a person. We probably did too much, and she took total advantage. Now she is suing us for back injuries supposedly sustained on the job. Total lie!! She got a lawyer and is trying to collect saying that Workmans comp. should have been in place. Well, we dont qualify for that so we may be ok, but we made more money without her here anyway, so now we are very happy to do it on our own...I agree that working some nights and weekends are worth it not to have the hassle of dealing with all their hassles....seems like of all the letters here, many agree. Maybe we are picky and sometimes hard to deal with, but it is our company and our income that will fail, so if you want to do the job right, lets just do it ourselves. Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
To post script my earlier entry, I would like to mention that I have tried to hire family and friends in the past. Nobody took it serious, including me. When I hired a non family/friend,everything really took off! I can be honest and frank with them. Family dinners just don't taste the same when you work togather, or if there is friction, I don't want to feel it at home or at church.
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
Generally I am a 1 man show, I have 1 employee that comes in Monday, Wenesday, Friday, it works out great he has some experience and is a good worker. He can do any vinyl applications I need, which frees me up for stuff that needs my attention. Of course I would never have a guy I pay 10 bucks an hour working on a show quality motorcycle, stick him on the No Parking signs.
Posted by Jim Bagaas (Member # 3808) on :
Hello,All I have a attitude and I'm house broken !
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
....All you picky sign shop owner/operators that just can't afford to let anyone make any mistakes in the name of "help". . . control/power freaks . . .I'm just like you...Hahahaahaaha!!! Seriuosly tho', I've been at it alone too. I've got one bud who helps me install...but there just is'nt any one around who seriously wants to learn this trade, it seems. And how many of you have general aquaintances who are always out'a work an' wantin' to know if you need help. That's one of those occasions where a lie is in order! This place is full of people who wo'nt work an' want "jobs", an' I don't even want 'em around my shop. The BIG question I got for ya'll is: Just how much money can 2 hands and one brain make? You can only do SO MUCH work, an you can price yerself out'a business, tryin' to get ahead. (mabey I should just post this as an addendum topic or somethin'). And, I ain't tryin' to discourage the person who posted the original question here, and most of ya'll sound so optimistic, but the reality, at least for me, is burn out. After 15 years, it's just gettin' a tad old, doin' it ALL. When your solo, you're:
secretary, bookkeeper, janitor, bidder/proposal writer, installer, quality-control, "job scout",(which for me means havin' to spend time goin' to look at certain jobs in order to fig'er the job)
Just exactly when would one expect to actually be doin' any work? When I drop all that other stuff and get down to the main thing, all kinds of things interfere with gettin' anything done, as one simple ex: spendin' time linin' up the customer for an installation with mine an' my helper's schedule.... or how 'bout walk-ins? Tho' not too often, still it happens. One of the best employees is that answerin' machine, but if yer really gonna run a serious business, somebody(guess who?) has gotta make time to schedule a time, that would be a good time(which is typically business hours) to return calls in a timely fashion, knowin' full well, that you ain't got time to deal with all the time-consumin' things that are gonna present themselves in those calls................Shall we do this as a separate post?
Posted by Jim Bagaas (Member # 3808) on :
I have to agree with Sheila on this one.I had my own shop for 12yrs and I started out with myself doing everything which was great.I was working when I wanted,talking to customers,designing,but I was working out of my garage and the wife had her job which payed the bills. Then I "jumped in the pond" and worked it as a business full time,It was still fun but I was only able to do so much and talk to so many people during the day as far as getting jobs,completing them,installing them. I did get lucky and find a person to help in the shop that wanted to learn and had the skills that was needed.As the company grew I hired more people till I got to the point where I know longer did shop work,which is why I started. At some point you have to think about how big you want to be.To expand you have to hire.It is never fun to hire and fire but that is part of building a company. After 12 years I found out I wasn't a "boss" type of person and sold the whole thing to my friend who was my first hire,He was able to keep all 5 employees working and found he liked doing the front office thing. Myself,I found out I like the craft part.
Posted by David Fisher (Member # 107) on :
This site being what it is, frequented by people who are in the biz for the love of it, I think you're going to get skewed statistics. Having said that, I've been an employer as well as a a one man band and I prefer being a one man band. I've never had any trouble finding people well capable of doing the work but I DID have trouble finding people that cared as much about my business as me. Fianlly I realised the bleeding obvious. The ones that give a rat's are already out there working for themselves because they have an ethic and "tude" that means they tire quickly of working for someone else and producing work that they think they could do better. Its been a great pleasure working with, learning from and having some great times with them though. One observation from my time both as an employer and a subcontractor, except in exceptional circumstances trying to be a friend AND an mployer is a bad idea. All parties need to have a very clear understanding of expectations and roles or both wind up with equal and opposite gripes. David
Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
I have a friend who owns a CLASSIC CAR paint shop. He's got 6 employees.....and a "theory" . Every 5 years he closes the shop for 2 weeks, and has his employees thoroughly clean up the place and repaint the floors and walls, etc. At the end of the two weeks, he fires everybody and goes on a 2 week vacation. He gives everyone a 2 week severence check. When he comes back, he starts hiring again. His theory is: Your BEST employee was at his best the first 3 years....then he staerts to take things for granted and his production goes down, OR he's become a PRIMA DONNA if he's good! The employees that arent cutting the mustard, you dont want to keep anyway. So...I guess "cleaning house" is HIS answer. Even tho it kinda makes sense, I'm not saying I agree with his tactics, but after 45 years, it works for HIM. I dont have that problem....I WORK ALONE! Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
So after reading all these post, is it remotely possible some of you have bad attitudes too, or bad work habits, or maybe have no clue on what you are doing?. I mean really, what would you realy have to offer a seasoned sign person. I don't think Im reading that there is employee bashing here, but looking at both sides, it is a 2 way street. An employye is only going to be as good as an employer, if the employee exceeds the employer, than what compensation will there be? Not much I bet. I have no real motivation to start a sign shop full time, I love my job, and Im really good at it, I like my employer, and workmates. Im never told what to do, treated with respect and an adult, and get paid very well for doing some really cool projects. I never got that kind of satisfaction working for a mom and pop, mosty it was "attutude" broken promises, small 25 cent raises and overworked with little appreciation. It goes both ways, but then again, maybe there is a reason most here work on thier own. It could be that its easier not to have an employee, or maybe it's they know thier business so well that they don't really need one. Or maybe it's a lack of vision, or drive to do better work, or maybe they don't play well with others. Either way, it goes back to what an employee and employer has to offer, lives are involved, and there is a lot of responsibity on both sides, especially if you are a small sign shop, and maybe as a small business owner you dont want to rely on a "stranger" to help you succeed.
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
i would say your are lucky to be in the minority...i toy with the idea of hiring someone but there are factors like: i work out of my home...can i trust someone with access to my personal life? not that i do anything illegal. but i'm a private person that likes her space...i also have a husband who i need to be considerate of...it's bad enough when customers come over often... are they going to be as picky as i am with my projects? will they respect my equipment and tools? will they be safe? will i get sued if they are not?
and what do i have to offer? i worry enough about paying the bills i have, do i really want to be responsile for someone elses livelihood? if i ever do i know that i would be very fair and compensate for talent and knowledge. it would be a fun place to work that i'm sure of.
i guess since i can't offer any guarantees i'll keep to being solo...i would feel terrible if i hired someone and in 7 months it's not busy and i can't afford them. i don't feel that this threat meant to bash employess but just to air out the frustrations employers encounter. i realize there are great employees out there..i just hope some day i can be the lucky minority and have one.
[ April 25, 2003, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: KARYN BUSH ]
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
I have been on all sides of this equation in the 32 years I have been in the sign business. I have been an employee and have been laid off when work got slow; twenty years ago, I got fired from my own company after I sold controlling interest (the majority owner’s son needed a job after dropping out of school); I have had 14 employees and I have been solo. I have been home based; I have also been in several thousand square feet of lease space on a major highway. I have had good experiences hiring family and friends; I have been burned by family and friends.
Every scenario has its own pluses and minuses. Solo offers more freedom–at a price. Sometimes, you are just spread too thin. If you do want to get away, what happens when one of your valued customers calls and you are on vacation? It is generally true that it is hard to get an employee with the knowledge and commitment you have. However, if someone can take some of the “grunt” work away from you, you can get other, more pressing things done. If you did not have time to make a $2000 sale because you were coating boards for a $200 job, you may be going backward.
However, when I had 14 employees, I was always needing someone. The artist is going on maternity leave, I have to get someone else in there; the foreman is sick of the long commute and is looking for a job elsewhere; the pattern maker keeps goofing off and has to be replaced; the secretary’s family is moving; the installers are feuding, etc.
I had to make the decision as to whether I wanted to be the manager or the craftsman. I really enjoyed both fields but I decided to go back to being smaller. What works best for me is having one or two employees that I can train to do the jobs the way I want them done. I pay them fairly and am generous with bonuses when we sell and finish a large job. Twice, I have given bonuses of over $5000. I felt if the employee helped me to make a good profit, he deserved to make one also.
The foreman I have now is intensely loyal. He has turned down good offers from other companies because I was “always there for him” and he will always be here for me. He does not enjoy the computer and English is not his first language, so I am not able to use him in customer relations, however, his work ethic for getting the work done cannot be equaled. I had another employee whose back always “hurt” when the heavy lifting came around, but was a whiz at computers and design. He loved the interaction with customers and took a huge load off me in design, sales and site surveys. A year ago, he received an out of state assignment after going to Ministerial Training School. I really miss him, for in my business, I really need both types.
When you do good work, your business cannot help but to grow, leading to those decisions of whether or not to hire employees. Being an entrepreneur means you will always be in a state of flux.
[ April 26, 2003, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: David Harding ]
Posted by Robert Thomas (Member # 1356) on :
Well said David. I am most gratefull to have been an employee at some "quality shops" in my career and worked with some talented people.
I am a one man shop mostly, but hire part-timers, and hire from the labor pool on occasion for installs. My company is growing and I would like to hire a shop person for painting/carpentry/installs sometime this year if possible. One person can only do so much and I am spead too thin at times. Someone in sales would increase the growth at a faster rate, but I don't want to get too big.
Actually, I am looking for a partner of sorts to join my company and do sales, billing and office stuff so I can concentrate on designing & production.
Cheers
[ April 26, 2003, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Robert Thomas ]
Posted by Dan Sawatzky (Member # 88) on :
As I've said above out shop is both me by myself for much of the year and a farily large crew when we have a big job going. THere are certainly advantages to both sizes.
When I'm by myself I tend to be a lot less disciplined. My hours are spread out more and my personal life get mixed in through the day. Not a bad thing at all. I also have to do pretty much everything, even the jobs which aren't my favorite.
When I work with a bigger crew... time IS money. A crew can cost big bucks in a hurry, especially when they aren't productive. And they are as productive and organized as I am... no one else to blame.
With good planning on my part I can make the work environment a lot less stressfull and a whole lot more fun for everyone. I have found that for the most part people LIKE to be productive. They LIKE to be recognized for good work too.
A little bit of care and compassion goes a long way.
With a big crew things go a lot faster, and with proper planning can free me up to do more creative work than I could accomplish by myself.
But as the big jobs finish I always enjoy going back to the slightly more leasurely pace I get when I work by myself.
So I guess I have the best of both worlds... and not TOO MUCH of either.
-dan
Posted by Karen Souza (Member # 2453) on :
Yeah Sheila - welcome to MY world! Have worked alone all but 7 of my 28 years in the biz. It's impossible to be everything to everyone - that's the conclusion I've come to, because there's no life for me. I'm being more particular about customers I take and the one's I keep - the work I do for them has to be important to them, they pay me well,and I have to like working for them - It really is all about attitude - whether it's yours, your help or your customers. I like working alone - my husband usually gets my trucks/trailers moved in, out & around constantly - knows most all my customers on a first name basis - so I just need to put some more vinyl in front of hime to weed once in a while! We'd either work real well together or we'd kill each other (not sure!) This topic is one of my customers largest complaints GOOD, DEPENDABLE help. I've found that this is one of the valable assets I bring to them, They can depend on me to get it done when I say (even though they often wait considerably)and to the caliber they expect of me. But, it is very overwhelming at times to say the least. My husband and I have a saying when things get really nuts! "I feel like Superman with everyone tugging on my cape at the same time! ARRRGH! As you can tell... its been a long week. Just looking forward to a weekend with friends at Mass Mayhem. Karen
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Greetings From Sunny Michigan!
Again I reply to this great post! I sincerely hope I can give out those bonuses too! I really like the people I work with. I have a hard time being called "the boss" I never put "President" or "Owner" on my business cards. They say "sales consultant" I don't power trip on any of that. I treat my people like friends. I also realize that some employees need to be babysat or constant supervision. I don't hire them. I want it to be a difficult decision if they have another opportunity. Just some random thoughts.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Seriuosly tho', I've been at it alone too. I've got one bud who helps me install...but there just is'nt any one around who seriously wants to learn this trade, it seems. And how many of you have general aquaintances who are always out'a work an' wantin' to know if you need help. That's one of those occasions where a lie is in order! This place is full of people who wo'nt work an' want "jobs", an' I don't even want 'em around my shop. The BIG question I got for ya'll is: Just how much money can 2 hands and one brain make? You can only do SO MUCH work, an you can price yerself out'a business, tryin' to get ahead. (mabey I should just post this as an addendum topic or somethin'). And, I ain't tryin' to discourage the person who posted the original question here, and most of ya'll sound so optimistic, but the reality, at least for me, is burn out. After 15 years, it's just gettin' a tad old, doin' it ALL. When your solo, you're: ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)