I am always a bit nervous about applying graphics to windows.........this is what I plan on doing.
1) prep the graphics......mask 2) prep the surface.......scrap & clean glazing 3) apply graphics wet
There always seems to be these minute pockets of air that you can see on the other side of the glazing...does this eventually gas out?
glass is always cold.......do people usually heat up the glazing?
any info or tips on this subject would be greatly appreciated
Thanks
Posted by Terry Whynott (Member # 1622) on :
I've applied etched vinyl with Rapid Tac with great results. Also used it with regular vinyl. Any moisture will dry out in time and look perfect. Posted by Cheryl Lucas (Member # 1656) on :
I use Rapid Tac 11 (two) on (wet) window applications. Simply follow the instructions on the bottle and and it's all smooth sailing from there on out!
Cher.
Posted by Brian (Member # 39) on :
RapidTac II has worked great for me on winders. After your done, dont freak over all the little bubbles and squegee marks, it will "flatten out" in a few days. I just did some office windows with 4' square panels of the stuff, a pain in the ars but it works
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
John, want FREE samples of all the Rapid Tac products ? Just e-mail your street address to: mail@rapidtac.com Also visit my site for more info.: www.rapidtac.com
Roger P.S. Thanks guys and gals Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I love the RT stuff, but I did fine line hawaiian floral graphics on the bottom 30" of 11 windows in a restaurant. I did the first one wet, couldn't even begin to think about removing the mask, so spent 2 or more hours finishing the other windows dry with excellent results. (a little more skill required to not get bubbles, but I was successful)Each of those windows I just grabbed & ripped off the application tape. After everything else was done & the owner was closed down wanting to go home, I still had to fight with the transfer tape to get it off, & go home.
On the other hand, when the coverage is too large to trust my dry app. skill, I have had better luck removing the tape by getting it real wet with rapid tac.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Doug, "fine line" should make no difference.
How and with what did you clean window ?
What type and brand vinyl ?
what trans tape did you use ?
These three items can be just as important as knowing "when to use hardner or retarder" in paint. Or when to apply the gold to the size.
Roger Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
dry application of some vinyl graphics may not always be "childs play" but if you have the talent do do it that way it is undisputably faster & cheaper.
Wet application is more forgiving on the issue of trapping bubbles & that, IMHO, is the main reason for applying that way.
On large graphics I am happy to have my R.T. II, but on fineline stuff that I can do dry, I see no reason for applying wet. I have done it though, & in my experience there will still be some waiting, or some finessing required to get the medium tack tape off without the graphics coming off.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Doug, you completely disregarded my questions, you nerd.
Get out of that surf and get back here !! Doug ? Douug ??? Dooouuuug ???????????????? Roger Posted by Henry Barker (Member # 174) on :
I just did some shop windows 8ft x 8ft with etch vinyl, in panels of between 24" -30" high 8ft wide, I did it dry no problems with bubbles, I use transparent application tape, and a good new 3M gold squeegee.
I replaced 2 letters where I missed some colourhaze (old paint) on the window.Which left a small shadow in the letters
I take a white (bathroom) scotchbrite and clean thoroughly several times, and then a razor blade to dry and remove anything else that's left, job goes really quick, and (mostly!) trouble free.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
quote:Doug, you completely disregarded my questions, you nerd.
No Roger, not completely. I only partially disregarded your questions. I did sneak in "medium tac" in my reply
Actually I figured that my "claiming" that dry application was cheaper rendered any possible cause for trouble with wet application moot.
It was 5 years ago, & I don't know what brand of vinyl it was. I'm not sure if I cleaned windows back then, but if I did it was probably with windex, bon ami, alcohol & some really really expensive paper towels. Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
I Did several very large windows for a University last year and had severe problems with the Glass etch, using Rapid Tac, the vinyl was Style Tech Diamond Etch. I've used Rapid Tac on Arlon Glass Etch with good results, but I just don't like the look of arlon's glass etch. This Style tech Diamond Etch is really easy to apply dry, it has a realistic feel and look to it just like the real thing.
Posted by ScooterX (Member # 2023) on :
hey John, way up north where you are, i think some people use a piece of insulation board (or even some scrap cardboard) to create a little insulation for the window. they put the board outside, then let the window warm up, then apply the graphics to the inside of the window. most vinyl manufacturers have a temperature range that they say is safe for applying the vinyl.
maybe one of the other cold-climate people here can add to this.
the other thing i'd suggest is to cut a few smaller pieces of the window etch, and practice at home. once you've done a couple of them you'll feel safer. its always nerve wracking to "learn" while your customer is watching you.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Doug, what are the savings, maybe 40 or 50 cents a window ? Thats a whole $6.00 on that job ?
What is the cost of damaged vinyl (having to go back and re-cut,tape,re-apply) on one window, when you apply dry and stretch the vinyl ?
Is that "moot" ?
Anyone have any experience to add for wet application, like not having to have two people to do the job, or not having to re-do ?
Just friendly debate here !
Roger Posted by Scott Pagan (Member # 2507) on :
we always apply dry and rarely have any problems. just clean the glass properly and use good even squeegee pressure. remember to apply in a direction not to trap air bubbles. we use medium premask in these cases, since it needs to be tacky enough to lift graphic from liner, but easy to remove once etch graphic is applied. with a little practice it's really not that hard to do.
[ April 16, 2003, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: Scott Pagan ]
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Friendly debate? OK, I'm game... If I didn't know how to dry apply vinyl without streching it &/or needing to re-do the job I wouldn't be in this business. But as I said IMO wet app is for avoiding air bubbles. Even when I wet apply I don't slide the vinyl into place I use a tape hinge, (Doh! there goes some more profit on my tape ) so, for me, it's all about avoiding bubbles. If I can do that without R.T. then it's a no-brainer to go with a dry app.
As for the savings, if I think it's faster & cheaper, I've already talked myself into it just on "faster" before we even get to "cheaper" so how much cheaper is moot.
As for the $6.00 savings you estimated, I guess if my hourly rate were $2 - $3 then the 2 or 3 hours I waited to get the tape off, (plus the extra time & trouble that was still required) would add up right. That is if I only had one window...good thing I did the other 10 dry, so I wasn't really waiting!
I know you appreciate it when your products are used by your neighbors here, & also when we praise them here. Why do you get defensive when someone like me admits to not using them on a job? Now this thread is to rally support from "anyone with experience to add for wet application..."?
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
Roger I love your products.....but banners and etch vinyl on windows are much better and easier done dry.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
The duct tape is planted firmly over my mouth, I shall agree to disagree.
Roger Posted by Steve Aycock (Member # 3612) on :
I do nearly all my vinyl apllication dry.
I hinge at the bottom and work my way up in a slight arc. Most large applications can be split to the hinge. If not, I'm just real careful or I get help. If the job is huge, I can't get help or things are overly complicated I use the "juice". That's what we call app' fluid around these parts.
I seldom get bubbles or make a mistake.
Wet application, especially on glass has been problematic for me. It always takes forever before I can remove the transfer tape.
I clean glass with a little alcohol and water.
I use wet application for multicolor registration jobs on occasion.
I usually use water with just a touch of dish soap plus a little alcohol to speed up evaporation.
Works just fine.
Steve Posted by Steve Nuttle (Member # 2645) on :
Ok for what it's not worth I'll throw in my 1/2 cent(ain't worth 2 cents). We do 99% of our installs " Dry". Once in a great while for what ever reason we will do a wet intall and then we use Roger's wonderful magic elixir. I believe that wet apps are for those who never took the time to learn how to do dry apps. Our failure rate? Under .5% of all our jobs. At a shop rate of $75.00/hr if I can save 15 mins on a job, that's $18.75( god knows what that is Canadain) and beleive me we do alot of vinyl. If we do 500 jobs a year( I bet more)and save $18.75 on each that's lets see, that's a whopping $9375.00 less the vinyl on the .5% which is only about 3 jobs. Let's for arguement's sake say I loose $300 worth of vinly on those jobs. That's still a net gain of $8475.00. That's quite a bit of change. So as good as RT is, let those who need it use it and leave the rest of us alone!
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Roger, I concede to your debate & you run for the duct tape after one reply? "agree to disagree" about what? That's no way to debate, but I'll walk away from it too. (By my count we got 8 "dry's" and 4 "wet's")
BTW, what tack was that duct tape, any prep? Posted by Jim Bagaas (Member # 3808) on :
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