I sprayed One Shot thinned with mineral spirits onto Alumacorr, came in yesterday morning and sprayed a second coat. We were pushing the clock so I started applying vinyl over the paint after lunch. I'm sure it didn't have time to cure and of course the paint pulled up with the application tape. Called the customer and confessed, and now I'm flipping the panel and starting on the other side.
I called the mfg. and of course One Shot should go on with no problems.
What worries me is that today when I pulled off some of the vinyl letters just to see what would happen to the paint, it came off VERY easily.
I cleaned the panel with Sure Glide before painting.
Any thoughts?
Posted by Peter Schuttinga (Member # 2821) on :
What is 'Sure Glide' and what is it's purpose?
Posted by BrianTheBrush (Member # 1298) on :
I'm not sure what Sure Glide is, but myself, I would wet sand the aluminum surface with nothing finer than 1000 grit paper before asking ANY paint to adhere to it....
Then I'd wait at least 2-3 days to apply any vinyl, which I would apply wet, and then wet the application tape prior to trying to remove it.
Your problem probably came about from thinning with mineral spirits. Mineral spirits are good for cleaning brushes......period. Mineral spirits is a very, very weak thinner. It doesn't "cut" the paint at all. In order to thin One Shot to get it to spray properly using mineral spirits, you end up with a really diluted paint with no strength. One Shot recommends thining only 10% using their low temp reducer. It's just too easy to get a glass like finish using a roller to even think about fooling with a spray gun.
[ March 26, 2003, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: George Perkins ]
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
yup, what he said.
no more pushing the clock on this job. Unless you can use vinyl for the background as well.
Posted by Kristie Byrnes (Member # 3510) on :
Same advise here....Don't thin One Shot with mineral spirits!
Posted by Penny Baugh (Member # 3275) on :
Sure Glide is application fluid. My supplier doesn't carry Rapid stuff
In any case, I shouldn't have prepped it with that anyway, right? Shouldn't I use alcohol? Only I used alcohol to clean an MDO panel and I had orange peel on the part of the panel where I had sprayed it directly on it.
Is it "safer" to use a paint mask for my white letters rather than vinyl? I know I'll risk the mask pulling up the paint when I take them off. My design calls for a large red "ribbon" behind the lettering. I didn't want to use vinyl because I didn't want the seam all the way through the middle of my graphic. And also, I must confess this seems to be bubble week around here. I don't know if it's the daily change in temp from 75 in the day to 45 at night or what, but I'm not getting very nice results this week.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
how big is the panel? what color is the background? If your pushing the clock, even a few feet of custom color (or size) vinyl just enough to do the panel may be faster the the proper curing time needed for paint. Also as an edge printer (with my 11.8" limitation), I have to remind myself that the seams that I like to avoid often don't show from the distance the sign was designed to be viewed from. This fact is easier to convey to my client in a believable manner if I too am convinced. I avoid seam when I can, but they don't necessarrily spoil a job either.
As for the vinyl stencil idea, if you have paint mask vinyl, then the reduced tac of the adhesive should allow you to risk less cure time for the paint.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
this was a job you shoulda taken to your local auto-body shop. your new at this and to really get a good finish on a panel be it alum or mdo you need to learn to use automotive paint. and on alum you need to treat in like a car/truck. i water sand the alum with 400-600 paper, dry it wipe down with a ACRYLIC ENAMEL REDUCER, wipe with a tack rag...AND DO NOT TOUCH THE PANEL WITH YOUR HANDS OR OTHER BODY PARTS. you leave oils on the panel. get a qt of A/E and the hardner, mix hardner to paint cup only, if you have any left in the cup, do not mix with other paint, just put it in trash. A/E paint is fast drying and you can apply vinyl or paint within 2 hours after painting.
Posted by Peter Schuttinga (Member # 2821) on :
Sure Glide was your first problem, probably left a soapy film on the aluminum. Aluminum does oxidize over time, you'll notice it when you handle it and your hands turn black. This is the stuff you need to get off the aluminum. Cleaning with a 'hot' thinner is the trick, as is scuffing up the surface and cleaning afterwards. There is nothing wrong with using mineral spirits, as it allows the enamel to flow out for a longer time than a slow drying reducer. Your drying time will be affected though, and pre-spacing tape may affect the surface of the enamel if the enamel is not given enough time to dry.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
PUSHING A CLOCK!!!!!!!
Sorry I like watching the Paint dry. It gives myself time to work on other items.
But Still if you must, then (FLASH IT!)(with Lacquers or Hardeners..Dryers)
If I stopped I would (STAND STILL?) Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Penny, hi, I'm mr Rapid Tac guy (Roger Bailey).
If you want to clean (prep) anything before applying paint or vinyl, might I suggest Rapid Prep.
Rapid Prep is designed as a deep clean solvent, unlike other solvents it is not a "oil derivitave".
It cleans wax,grease,oil,and yes silicone, better then the harsh solvents mentioned here. It leaves no "incompatible residues" and it is "non hazardous/non flammable" !!
Get on my website for a distributor that is near you, then e-mail me for free samples !
Also, the fluid you are using is not a application fluid, its a positioning fluid, not the same as Rapid Tac or Tac II.
Roger mail@rapidtac.com
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
What Roger said. I scuff the painted panel with sandpaper or a maroon 3M pad. All you need to do is dull the paint. Don't sand through to bare aluminum. Clean with Rapid Prep. Roll on straight One Shot Lettering Enamel NOT Bulletin Color. I use One Shot hardner when ever I paint Alumalite (similar to Alumacore). It dries faster and prolongs the life of the paint. I've had no failures with this process.
When using paint mask, pull it up before the paint gets hard. Your edge will stay sharp and not break away with the paint mask.
Here's a tip when you have to overlap paint mask. Paint always wants to creep under the mask where one piece of paint mask overlaps the other. With hardner in the One Shot, I wait till the paint is just starting to loose its tack. Pull up the mask. (Its almost dry to the touch but its not hard yet.) Then I take an Oops Swipe (these are premoistened towelettes that will clean up latex or oil base paint. Much better on the hands than solvents.) Rub gently at the edge of the paint where your "tick" is and it will come right off without affecting your sharp edge. The paint that sneaks under the mask is not open to the air and does not dry as fast.
I can't say enough about these Oops Swipes. They are fantastic for cleaning up around the shop. Much much safer than using solvents on your skin. They clean up paint, oil, epoxy, grease, just about anything.
Posted by Brad Ferguson (Member # 33) on :
Penny,
A factory-painted panel like Alumacore should always be scuffed before painting. The maroon Scotchbrite pads work fine, like Dave S. said, though a more thorough job would be wet sanding with 400 grit. By the way, you can get round Scotchbrite pads with adhesive backs in case you have a D-A sander (wicked). I sprayed lettering enamels for many years with the solvent recommended (at that time) on the One Shot can: VM&P naphtha. VM&P (Varnish Makers and Painters) naphtha is a medium-fast solvent.
Mineral spirits can cause the paint to run like the dickens when spraying because of its slow speed, but I have also been able to get an incredibly awesome shine on 'marbleized' panels by spraying on the colors thinned with mineral spirits, then, after veining, spraying almost pure mineral spirits to soften and blend everything. Needless to say, this can only be done on a horizontal surface.
The temperature-specific thinners by One Shot are fine-tuned mixtures and worth the money, I believe. Still, if you check the MSDS sheets you'll find, if memory serves me correctly, that one is mostly VM&P and the other is mostly xylol, which is one of the lacquer thinners.
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its a positioning fluid, not the same as Rapid Tac or Tac II.