Listening to NPR this morning, and heard a commentator (whose name escaped me) explain how places like Iraq and Afghanistan are "culturally unsuited" to democracy. This statement: "An imposed democracy is in itself a form of dictatorship" is one of the most convoluted, self-contradictory example of pretzel logic I have ever heard coming from a putatively intelligent, educated human being.
So much of what I hear passing for "in-depth analysis" leaves me shaking my head saying "excuse me?"
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Pretzil Logic was a good album. Here, I thought this was going to be a post on Steely Dan... LOL!
Hey, Cam, how goes the computer thing? Hope it went well.
Posted by John Arnott (Member # 215) on :
Thats funny Cam.
Posted by GARY CULY (Member # 3130) on :
me too bruce!! even though its not about steely dan,i still always stop to read a CAM post!
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Well, you know what Gomer Pyle would say.
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
"well...., gaaawwwwwwwwwllllllllllllyyyy Sargeant Carter,,,"
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Wow.. I didn't know people actually take NPR seriously.
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
Its not about taking NPR seriously, its a comment on the Orwellian doublespeak that passes for "informed analysis" from academic and political commentators.
Democracy, by its very nature, cannot be "imposed" or forced upon any society. It's based upon the rule of law and the expression of popular consent. The opportunity to choose a leader by popular consent, according to the rule of law, is not a "dictatorship" by any definition. The attempt, by someone who purports to speak with any sort of authority on the subject, to equate democracy with dictatorship, is an act of gross intellectual dishonesty. Yet these are exactly the sort of grotesque anti-concepts that are accepted as part of a political science "education" in many American and Western European universities.
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
To Cam: life gets busy, people get run down and tired. Sometimes people need to have these things pointed out. You're doing this country a favor. On a little different note, I'm amused/saddened by how advertising text has shifted from informing buyers of the product's benefits to promising some emotional gratification. Just call me REAL old-fashioned. Thank you sir, Jim.
Posted by Stephen Faulkner (Member # 2511) on :
Thursday I stumbled onto an NPR conversation about when and where to protest. I swear my ears were bleeding after 4 minutes..... About "Steely Dan" You all know where the name comes from???.... I remember a local D.J. telling his version.... Had a big laugh over that one.
Posted by Bob Ficucell (Member # 1460) on :
Hey Bruce, I always liked Steely Dan's Aja Myself! Bob
Posted by Robert Thomas (Member # 1356) on :
Black Friday
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Cam, the media's job is to get you all hyped up and they'll do it by saying pretty much anything whether there's any fact behind it or not. I think they've succeeded.
This is why I've chosen to isolate myself from the media for a while, at least until the war is over.. no TV.. no radio.. no internet news.. nothing... information overload.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
[ March 23, 2003, 03:48 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Stephen Faulkner (Member # 2511) on :
When did we stop teaching kids that the U.S. is a Republic?? Hey Mike, I have been Media Free since 2000. The wierdest thing that strikes you after about a month, is just how bias some news outlets can be. Being in a one man shop for so long I listen to talk shows on the radio for hours, my blood preasure spiked to the point where I thought of keeping a defibulator(sp?) handy... an electro pounce works when combined with an aluminum yard stick. NPR with their monotone voices was the most repulsive but I felt the need to be "ballanced" thankfully I got over that.
Joe should have known the answer to the Steely Dan trivia.....to put it delicately it is rumored to be an "adult toy". Maybe that is just an urban legand but that is pretty gutsy for a 70's band huh?.... I recal that "Aja" album being on the record stand next Rolling Stones "sticky fingers"..... go figure!
Posted by Steve Barba (Member # 431) on :
Babalon sisters........Shake it!
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
"Got a case of dynamite... I could hold out here all night..."
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
I've been "off" television for twelve years. Aside from bias, agenda, or anything like that, I have a theory. I'm hoping sign people will be able to relate, because of the nature of our work. I'm thinking that TV is so well made, the lighting, coreography, sound, etc. After watching the car chase scenes, shootouts, and man meets woman scenes, who wants to go do ordinary things like car restoration, blacksmithing, make beef jerky? Alot of the TV excitment is just a lie, in that most people's lives aren't full of that wham-bam sensual overload. PLeasure comes from the subtle things around us, as well as the loud things. The fresh baked whole wheat bread with butter, as well as the spicy pizza. Besides, TV requires the ears AND the eyes. Radio only needs ears. My preference is books on tape. I was thinking of making a post on that alone. Am I over-reacting? It's been great for me, sincerly, Jim.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
It's not urban legend it's from William Burrough's "Naked Lunch."
I actually tuned in thinking this had some remote reference to GWB's choking incident...
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Point well taken, Jim D. I agree about the TV thing even though I have one. I refuse to have my opinion fed to me. Happiness comes from within not from without.
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
I agree with Jim D. We're on Solar power here- no electricity to waste watching TV- the generator goes on for power tools, spraying, or computer work, and the rest of the time it's peace, quiet and brush strokes (till the kids get home from school!). You know, you don't actually miss anything from the media- if it's important enough on the news, you'll find out about it from the radio on odd occasions, or from someone else filtering out all the rubbish and just telling you the guts of it. (Of course, reading the bullboard to catch up on world events is a perfectly legitimate use of electricity tho' !) Best wishes, Ian S-K
Posted by Stephen Faulkner (Member # 2511) on :
This was sent to me via e-mail. I don't know Dennis Miller that well but I like to keep things simple too.
By Dennis Miller All the rhetoric on whether or not we should go to war against Iraq has got my insane little brain spinning like a roulette wheel. I enjoy reading opinions from both sides, but I have detected a hint of confusion from some of you. As I was reading the paper recently, I was reminded of the best advice someone ever gave me. He told me about the KISS method ("Keep it Simple, Stupid"). So, with this as a theme, I'd like to apply this theory for those who don't quite get it. My hope is that we can simplify things a bit and recognize a few important facts. Here are 10 things to consider when voicing an opinion on this important issue: 1) President Bush and Saddam Hussein.....Hussein is the bad guy. 2) If you have faith in the United Nations to do the right thing, keep this in mind. They have Libya heading the Committee on Human Rights and Iraq heading the Global Disarmament Committee. Do your own math here. 3) If you use Google Search and type in "French Military Victories," your reply will be "Did you mean French Military Defeats?" 4) If your only anti-war slogan is "No war for oil," sue your school district for allowing you to slip through the cracks and robbing you of the education you deserve. 5) Saddam and Bin Laden will not seek United Nations approval before they try to kill us. 6) Despite what some seem to believe, Martin Sheen is NOT the President. He just plays one on TV. 7) Even if you are anti-war, you are still an "Infidel" and Bin Laden wants you dead, too. 8) If you believe in a "vast right-wing conspiracy," but not in the danger that Hussein poses, quit hanging out with the Dell computer dude. 9) We are not trying to liberate them. 10) Whether you are for military action, or against it , our young men and women overseas are fighting for us to defend our right to speak out. We all need to support them without reservation. end of quote.
If you can let down your political views long enough some things might sink in. George Washington didn't have full political suport or the backing of all the Colonists. Some things never change. Weather you are a boss or the leader of a nation, if you start to worry about your reputtaion more than the job at hand you have failed. Consider Bill Clinton.
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
Leave it to Dennis to boil it down to the essentials. Thanks, Geet.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Yes, the same Dennis Miller who went to bat for Bill Clinton not to long ago. As for George Washington, that sound you hear is him turning in his grave. Wouldn't hurt to read his farewell address and the references to foreign entanglements.
Posted by Myra Grozinger (Member # 327) on :
I don’t like it when in these posts we pick a name or latch on to a point the other is making, and then, disregarding the rest of the message, we run with that name or thing. And use it to make our own point, (if we have one) or just use it on principle as a way to slam the person who brought it up.
Goes on all the time.
Dennis Miller though, if I may pick on that name, is not unfamiliar to me, I am not just picking on his views to bring up my own once again.
I have read his book “The Rants”(could be just “The Rant, for the nitpickers) and that is what he does. I was unimpressed when he took on various situations at large then, and I am unimpressed when he is taking the almost lone political stand in the entertainment industry now.
I have long seen Dennis Miller as a wannabe. And he says whatever it takes to set him apart, to serve Dennis Miller, I have not seen him succeed at anything since way back when he did the news on Saturday Night Live.
We all get things in our e-mails that we could talk about from both sides of our mouth. I could take the next half hour, and under a different name write something totally original along the lines of what Dennis wrote, and have every one of the ones who don’t like what I usually write praise me to high heaven. That is if I made my living at being different. I think that’s what Dennis did.
Posted by Stephen Faulkner (Member # 2511) on :
Respectfully..... it is the message, not the mesenger.
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
What I appreciate in Dennis is that he has a knack for distilling the obvious out of the vast reeking clouds political flatulence that accompanies any and all public policy debates. On most issues he tends to be left of center; funny how when he's not he gets dissed as a "wannabee"(wannabee what?). Dennis Miller is, first and foremost, a comedian, and his shtick is to poke a sharp stick in the eye of complacency and smug self-righteousness on either side of the political fence, which is why I can appreciate his views even when I don't happen to agree with them. As for his success since "Saturday Night Live", well, his ten years on HBO and several books may not be a major cultural achievement for Western Civilization, but in our current 15-minute-of-fame culture, it's not too shabby either.
As to whether he represents "an almost lone political stand in the entertainment industry", who cares? I am not one of those people who looks to entertainers - did we say entertainers? - for brilliant insights into public policy. And that goes as much for the views of Charlton Heston as it does for those of Barbara Streisand.
While we're on the entertainment industry (which pretty much includes TV news these days) I am another who recently disconnected my TV, and am currently in recovery from that soothing blue glow of mass-media addiction.
Posted by Myra Grozinger (Member # 327) on :
OK- Cam, am I missing your point?
So we don't agree, you like him I don't. Am I wrong in that he pretty much failed ( was unsuccessful and cancelled) at every single thing he did since SNL ?
I did like him reading the news on SNL because it was not really his own stuff. I realized that when I read the book.
I still believe he speaks out of both sides of his mouth according to what is good for Dennises survival. That makes him not only not funny, but also not interesting to me.
Is Dennis Miller really the issue. Or is it that he puts some of the prevalent views around here into some semblance of funny logic?
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Watching Dennis on Donahue the other day was a hoot.
What about Ron Silver? He seems to have made a complete 180 since inauguration day back in 1993. I was rather impressed with how he handled Paul Begala and Bill Maher the other day. It was incredible how he was able to put a coherent argument without any effort. His command of history was amazing.
[ March 24, 2003, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
What irks me is people who put stock into what ENTERTAINERS blurt out, as if they have any political knowledge... as if they have any knowledge of the intelligence that has been collected over the past 11 years.
Dennis Miller is a comedian. Streisand is a singer. Sheen is an actor... that's it, they are nothing more, nothing less, same with all the other entertainers that think thier political opinions mean anything... they are nothing without the people that pay their inflated salaries - US.
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