I got a little prob I thought I'd post to see if I messed up or not. I just did a HD tank with 1-shot, then cleared with frog juice. The tank itself is acrylic enamel with hardner and a clear coat, so all my stuff and the FG are over that.
24 hrs later someone overfills the tank with gas and they bring the tank back 'cause the gas softened the FG enough to completely remove it it runs. I tried mineral spirits on a rag to clean it up a bit to see what was happening, and I noticed that the areas by the damaged clear felt a little tacky, whereas the rest of the clear felt normal.All the 1-shot lettering was still OK.
Does anyone know if FG reacts that way to gas....maybe it's just all too fresh.I cleaned it up and told the guy to bring it back after bike week, and I'd reclear it, but I wanted it to dry good first. On the FG can it says a 30 day cure. But I still wouldn't expect gas to act that readily on it.
Did I stray off the path here? Should I have just stayed with Acrylic enamel clear. Are there other possible bad uses for Frog Juice that I ought to be aware of?
Thank you folks
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Yep, its been my experience that gas and mineral spirits will affect Frog Juice. I learned the hard way, too.
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
Frog Juice has teeth . The one and only can I bought bit me more than once. If I'm not mistaken fj is an old PPG or SW low end single stage urethane of some sorts. I had it burn some One Shot on me and act kinda weird on a few other occasions. Myself, I've got absolutely no use for it. I'll use either Krylon clear or an automotive urethane, whatevers applicable. On a motorcycle tank I would have definately gone with an automotive urethane . Motorcycle tanks can be a real pain as far as gas damage goes. There was a recent discussion on the Auto Art board concerning bike tanks.
Posted by Jeff Ogden (Member # 3184) on :
George & Glenn......
Funny thing was, I only did it on the spur of the moment, 'cause I saw that frog juice can on the shelf and was wishing I had used more of it instead of having it just sit there, so the next thing you know it was on the tank. Normally I would have used the acrylic. It's tempting to wash the whole thing with gas to see if all the FG will come off without damaging the 1-shot, but I better not push my luck........
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Frog spit as I call it has done the same to me on several occasions, On a bike I use automotive clear, on signs or one-shot I use their clear.
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
HOW BRAVE ARE YOU?
Dupont nason clear496-00 with 483-78 clear is some of the hardest setting clear I've ever used.
Can you get the FG smooth enough to clear over?This stuff is really forgiving and with a few really light coats (set up between coats ) then flood finish 2 or 3 coats would (could) rescue it.
If it lifts it ...you've not lost anything since you are going to have to remove it anyway.
You face the chance of (sandwiching) a softer material between the tank paint and your clear...did you use a hardner in the One Shot?
Even if you didn't this clear shouldn't affect it...the FG is another matter. It's a guttsy move but it sounds like you are at a lose lose stage where you are... your call...but I think if I had this choice I'd try it...but thats me.
By the way this is the exact reason I have no use for something called f... j....Give me Dupont products everytime.
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
HOW BRAVE ARE YOU?
Dupont nason clear496-00 with 483-78 clear is some of the hardest setting clear I've ever used.
Can you get the FG smooth enough to clear over?This stuff is really forgiving and with a few really light coats (set up between coats ) then flood finish 2 or 3 coats would (could) rescue it.
If it lifts it ...you've not lost anything since you are going to have to remove it anyway.
You face the chance of (sandwiching) a softer material between the tank paint and your clear...did you use a hardner in the One Shot?
Even if you didn't this clear shouldn't affect it...the FG is another matter. It's a guttsy move but it sounds like you are at a lose lose stage where you are... your call...but I think if I had this choice I'd try it...but thats me.
By the way this is the exact reason I have no use for something called f... j....Give me Dupont products everytime.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
If the area isn't too large, you should be able to clean the FJ off with mineral spirits without harming the One-Shot.
As with all things, I'd recommend testing a small spot first.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
Frog Pizz has never worked for me!
Sorry for your troubles. A good surface cleaning and 1-Shot with a touch of Hardner (4007) to it will do the trick!
Forewarn the customer that it needs time to cure! 2 weeks at least.
Next step is Waxing! Does wonders to perserve paint. Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
Jeff,you answered your own question..frog juice takes 30 days min to chemically cure. Trying to save it by sanding and clearing over isn't gonna work...scuffing into it is gonna leave an even softer layer than whats there now and cut loose alot more tail end solvents that are gonna do some not so nice things to the clear you try to lay down. The Nason will without question lift the frog juice..now it may set up nice and shiny on top but it will wrinkle it underneath then it will set up so hard you have to strip the whole tank to get the crap off. You may....may be able to get the FJ off with mineral spirits like glenn suggested but i wouldnt count on that not hurting the one shot or the acrylic enamel thats underneath depending on how that was applied. If you somehow manage to do that,your best bet is to get the tanks owner to get someone else to reclear it if they really used acrylic enamel as a base and let them guaranty the clear job will be problem free later,don't ever count on modern clears going over acrylic enamel despite of what plenty people here or on other boards may tell you. No offense here....but if the guy is gonna spend the money to 'custom paint' a harley tank and his choice of a base is acrylic enamel hes not looking to put up the money to use the kinds of material he should be using and when the job goes bad later down the line he's gonna blame you instead of himself.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
I just don't understand the logic of not using the correct materials one should use just to save a few bucks. Signs and Bikes are two different substrates and using the correct paint system should be on top of ones list, otherwise don't take the job.
Just this afternoon, I striped a bike which is not going to be clear-coated and it will stay on, and gasoline will not affect the striping what so ever. Thats because I used HoK with its KU-200 catalyst. If a clear-coat was to be used I would still use HoK because it is compatable with all clear-coats and there isn't a waiting time. Clear-coating 1-Shot is more then just a hit and miss situation when doing automotive and motorcycle work. Whether you wait any length of time or use the clear-coats catalyst in the 1-Shot or 1-Shots hardener, you always get to feel the design or lettering of the 1-Shot because of its oil based properties. This is because of the incompatibilities of different properties in the materials. Only using the correct and proven methods and material can assure ones project to be problem free.
Its understandable to me that not everyone wants to invest their money into another paint system, but thats the price you have to pay to accomplish any job in the correct manner.
Posted by Jeff Ogden (Member # 3184) on :
Thank you all for the replies.Since the bike is gone for a week, I'll have to mess with it again after Daytona. I told the boy that I may have to redo it, but that I will try to remove the FG first. Fortunately it is just a nice Harley Davidson in script and an offset outline...brushed on, including the clear.
I guess to some this might seem almost comical, but "frog juice " is relatively new to me. By that I mean I dismissed it when it first came out, as just a re-bottled urethane with a high price tag. I remember when we began to see the first auto acrylics back in the 50's...everyone was worried whether their 1-shot was going to stick OK to the new paint, Some guys started adding a little catalyst to the lettering paint to see if it would help it stick better, the theory being that things will adhere better if there is a little bit of the basecoat in the topcoat. Later some brave souls figured out you could put clear automotive over the 1-shot. In cases where I felt it was needed, that is exactly what I have been doing ever since, gradually moving towards Imron clear on a lot of stuff, because I thought it was better.
Now back to the froggy stuff. Having avoided it for years, it started showing up in suppliers catalogues and on friends shelves, seemingly gaining a broad acceptance. People seemed to be using it for everything, from painting on vinyl to clearing gold leaf (not me). So I guess I began to think I was behind the times or something, like maybe they have improved the formulation of something like that. So I,ve been dabbling with it on a few things, trying to decide whether it's any good or not. When this bike tank came in, it was a guy just wanting an original script , kind of plain, with maybe a shade, and maybe a clear if I thought it needed it, they wanted to go to bike week the second day after I got it.I opted to cut a stencil and spray a two color blend, imitaion gold to white, in the script, then do an offset outline in red (maroon tinted 1/2 with orange, all on a back tank.
So to make a long story short, it was not a deluxe job to begin with, and my using the frog stuff was 50% experiment and 50% sheer impulse. I was not thinking about dollars or shortcuts. So I really don't mind the setback so long as it can be fixed, seeing as how it was my own ignorance that caused it. The FG will have to find a new home in the vinyl area. The bikers are OK with it, because they are blown away by the paint job, and have promised to bring more work over. They said they never knew I could do that kind of work, and tried very hard to get me to go with them to bike week. I told them that if I went to Daytona for bike week I wouldn't mess it up by carrying all those brushes and things...
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. The one and only can I bought bit me more than once. If I'm not mistaken fj is an old PPG or SW low end single stage urethane of some sorts. I had it burn some One Shot on me and act kinda weird on a few other occasions. Myself, I've got absolutely no use for it. I'll use either Krylon clear or an automotive urethane, whatevers applicable. On a motorcycle tank I would have definately gone with an automotive urethane . Motorcycle tanks can be a real pain as far as gas damage goes. There was a recent discussion on the Auto Art board concerning bike tanks.
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