Hi guys. A couple guys from a radio station showed up the other day wanting their logo on this huge tour bus type thing. I go on, take some digital photos & lay it out on the putor. They didn't like my price so they went somewhere else. (Not with a print of what I did, of course)
It really didn't take me long to do it, but still I feel I went the extra mile for the possible customer. I'm definately going charge something up front for this service, which they will not keep a print of if they don't want to do the job with us. MY QUESTIONS:
How can I approach people with this? I don't want to sound real harsh but I gotta protect my time.
Thanks!
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Felix, No matter what you quoted these people, it probably would have been too much. Every radio station I've ever dealt with always wanted to barter their services for my time. Unless you can use the airtime, cough this one up to experience & move on. edit Or, next time you have dealings with these people, raise your pricing to allow for some negotiating. But, always make sure that you get enough money to at least cover your material costs and some of your time.
Havin' fun, Checkers
[ February 21, 2003, 07:09 AM: Message edited by: Checkers ]
Posted by Darrell Giese (Member # 768) on :
Tell them the truth.
A. This is my work. (as you gesture to many samples of your work on the walls, in photo albums, on your website)
B. If my price is within your budget, give me a deposit and I'll get started on some layouts.
C. After we agree on the final layout, the balance is due before we begin production.
D. I understand you may want to shop around. I have some alternate ideas I would like to run by you in the design stage. Have a great day.
I will not 'play with' a prospective job in front of the customer. Those 10 minute layouts reinforce the perception that what I do is done 'by the computer' and anyone can do it. By requiring deposits and scheduling meetings, the customer is made to understand you are a professional and your time has value.
I always remind myself, they ain't customers until the check clears.
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
On large jobs that require my design efforts, I charge $250 to work on sketches. My approach is simple and direct.
"The sort of job you are describing could be in the range of (x) to (y). An accurate figure depends upon the complexity of the design. We charge an initial retainer of $250 for design work. Once we have somrthing on paper, we'll call you back in, you look at our sketches, and we make any necessary alterations. At that point I'll be able to give you an accurate figure on the cost of your project."
This statement establishes you as a professional, and sets a specific monetary value on your time. At the same time, you haven't made a commitment to anything other than showing them some drawings. To turn the drawings into a sign, a logo, or anything else is an entirely seperate issue. I probably spend an hour to an hour and a half, on average, to do an initial design. You do the math.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Ask your potential clients for a budget, let them know you need a "deposit" or "retainer" to produce concept drawings for them.
You can slip it into the conversation pretty easily.. after you've asked them some questions about details on the job just slide this in there real smooth: "OK great! Let's get the design deposit taken care of and I can get some concept drawings prepared for you!"
The main thing is confidence. If your hands are shaking and sweat is pouring down your forehead or your eyes are bouncing all over the room when you "ask for money" they aren't going to take you seriously. You have to look them dead in the eye, with an enthusiastic smile on your face.
The dollar amount you place on it is up to you, whether or not you charge a totally seperate bill for production or absorb the retainer into the cost of the job is up to you. Just let them know before you do any work at all that your time has a price tag.
Posted by Bob Stradford (Member # 3538) on :
Felix, In dealing with radio stations, all or must will always want to barter. the responce i have gotten from these businesses is that they want retail for retail. if you both our talking quality service and or product than they will understand your cost and time as well as pricing.
if nothing else you can try them out for a short time on a small job. they will try to give you mass coverage for a short time. this gets you hungry for them. i used only peak time spots for a longer time period which resulted in better payoff for me. always make sure cost to you is covered and that it should be retail for retail.
Posted by ScooterX (Member # 2023) on :
hi Felix,
the advice above is what i do. once you've arrived at a budget, THEN you can get their deposit and begin sketching out designs.
they might say "well, what if we don't like your designs?" or its cousin, "we can't pay until we see what we're getting." To that I answer "You've seen my work, and the kinds of signage I create. If you don't trust that I can create something appropriate for you, then you need to find a different sign shop, or you need to hire a graphic designer and I'll just work from their designs."
Usually they back down and realize that they need to put themselves in your hands, as it were.
Or, in the case of the radio station, "Well, how about you run a few of my ads first, and I'll see how they sound. If I like it, then i'll do the designs for you."....
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
We've all been stung by not asking for SOMETHING up front to take the shoppers out of the market, and turn them into buyers. The best way I know to get a design fee is to matter-of-factly ASK FOR IT - and early on in the conversation too. "I charge for design" seem to be the most feared words, till you see the magic it can produce. If those words scare you, you're not alone. Just blurt it out if you have to.
I love Cam's approach. And a $250 retainer fee would be appropriate on high-dollar, complex proposal. It wouldn't fly for a $300 job though. Perhaps something like 10% of their proposed budget might have merit. The mere act of forking over ANY fee has the desired beneficial effect on both parties.
I love Darrell's too. And Mike's observations about confidence are so true.
I probably love Scooter's the best - 'run some ads for me and if I like them I'll do some designs for you'. That would drop their jaws. As audacious as that seems, it is no different than what they ask us to accept. We must keep it in that perspective. I can't think of many other professions that operate that way. (any). Try telling the tailor, "Make me a shirt, and if I like it I will order a suit". I don't think so.
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
Hey Felix, in re-reading, it dawns on me I might have somewhat missed the point of your post. I think you're asking how you can salvage something out of this now, after the fact. Sure is a lot tougher, isn't it.
Let me ask you this - have they given you a dollar amount they ARE willing to spend, and do you realistically think you can do anything within it? If they won't reveal their target, or it's ridiculously low, then drop it and take your lump. Giving them a bill for design that, in their minds they didn't agree to, will create ill will, and in the end still won't get paid. With enough diplomacy, you might get their cooperation to keep you in their loop for future projects that have a more realistic budget. You keeping the sketch is kind of a hollow victory, but it may be all you can salvage at this point. If nothing else, hang it up as a reminder to not repeat the mistake.
