Hello all, I just recently started creating signs. I've been a "designer" since I was 16, and everything I have done pretty much led me up to this point. Needless to say, I underestimated the skills needed to do this sucessfully. So far, you guys and gals have been a tremendouse help. I'm getting there slowly. I'm hoping that by this time next year I have my act together enough to open shop. right now i do logo design, t-shirts, promotional items etc. Ive been thinking of everything i could to make opening a shop (storefront) go as smoothly as possible. anyone have any suggestions of anything i may be missing or not taking into account, or any experiences you may be willing to share? thanks in advance. Glendon
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
G.V.,
Get you butt to a Letterhead meet. The wealth of information will astound you. Well worth the prices of addmission.
Have a great one!
P.S. Welcome to Letterville!
Posted by Roy Frisby (Member # 736) on :
Why wait until next year? Jump on in, you'd be surprised how fast you can learn to swim when your up to your butt in alligators.
Posted by EmpY (Member # 138) on :
"any suggestions of anything i may be missing or not taking into account"
Well, since you asked - in this sea of optimism let's look at the other side of the coin for a minute. I'll gladly take the position of pessimist :-)
Everyone just starting out or thinking about getting into the sign business has the idea that it's a great way to make money. Maybe... but only under certain conditions.
Don't underestimate the effect of existing sign shops in your area. There are only so many businesses or institutions and only so much sign work that these places need.
Certain parts of the country seem to be affected more than others with regards to businesses closing, bad economy, people getting laid off etc.
Adding another signshop will not increase the amount of sign work that's required for any given area - it only dilutes the amount of work that everyone else in that area will get over all.
Chances are, if you're going to be a typical modern sign shop, the other existing shops are already taking care of the customers that want this kind of work. The exception would be an area with a lot of businesses and no sign shops.
How many sign shops are already located near you? A quick check of the yellow pages will give one indication. Asking the Chamber of Commerce might also give you some info.
How much sign business will you be able to get if these other shops are already established? How much work will you need to take from them in order to pay your shop rent, insurance, electric, heat, salary, etc. ?
Why would customers of the existing sign shops want to do business with someone new? Are you going to offer something vastly different or superior that they can't get anywhere else? Be honest with yourself.
The fact that everyone is talking about shops undercutting other shops and pricing jobs way too low is a very obvious indication that there's ALREADY TOO MANY PEOPLE IN THE SIGN BUSINESS in most areas. They're all trying to sell basically the same kind of work. Not all of them will have visible shops either. More people are doing this out of their homes.
The foolish sign shops are lowering prices just to get work to pay the bills. Why is it foolish? Because at the end of the year when they look at the books they then realize they worked all those hours for less money than they would have made working at a fast food place. The landlord, the suppliers and the utility companies and insurance companies made their profits - where's yours?
Computerization of sign shops has caused a major shift in the sign business. This isn't something new - it's happened years ago. Part of it was great, part of it resulted in disaster. It's now become a business of selling a product or a commodity rather than the art form or the service that it used to be.
People like to argue about it being "progress" and "change" and that you have to adapt if you want to survive...
OK but if that adaptation means you are now producing a product that's almost exactly the same as the next guys product, how are you going to say your product is better? Saying you only use premium vinyl and only buy the best sign blanks doesn't mean squat. To the customers ears this only sounds like "mo money, mo money, mo money!"
Are you going to give better service than the other guys? What does that mean?
Are you going to make the same product faster than the other guy? How much faster than today or tomorrow is it gonna get? Can you make signs by telepathy? Are you going to price it lower than the other guy? It becomes a question of how much are you willing to invest in time and money, for how little of a return?
Are you going to be available 14 hours a day instead of 8 or 10 ? What if competing with the other guys means you no longer enjoy doing sign work?
Ohhh you say your signs are going to look better than the other guy because you have design experience. I'll say this... the vast majority of customers today don't care about design. It's all about price and speed. Is this what you want to cater to? How will you get customers if you don't?
If they could buy their signs from a vending machine at the gas station on their way to work while snarfing down the eggamuffin they would.
Can you get customers to pay you for your greater design expertise? Maybe... There's a handful of sign makers who have succeeded in educating customers about the value of their design work. You can see some of it in the sign magazines.
But since I'm taking the pessimistic view here, I'll have to point out the thousands of sign makers who are struggling just to get by, because they aren't good at sales, and they produce work that looks like everyone elses work.
Todays customers like to feel they are taking part in the design process because after all, they have a computer too and they know this stuff isn't hard to do... They have a clip art program and they made some invitations so they know all about design work. Try educating these customers.
It's good to see that you realize it takes more than you initially thought, in order to do this kind of work. The sign franchisors would have you believe otherwise though since they claim it only takes two or three weeks training.
Setting aside my pessimism for a moment, I'll advise this:
Do what you enjoy doing but if you can combine it with what makes more money for the time spent on it, that's what you should concentrate on. You can get more money for truck or boat lettering than for coroplast signs and it's not because of cheap vinyl compared to high performance vinyl. It's because of perceived value to the customer.
If you decide to concentrate on vehicles, get a shop with an overhead door so you can drive vehicles inside. Then you won't have to rely on the weather or the customer's space being workable.
There's more money putting vinyl on sign cabinet plastic than putting the same vinyl on a banner. Electrical sign cabinets and their installation are generally high dollar but they are also a specialized trade that requires knowledge beyond design and cutting vinyl. Electrical work and installation services are a whole 'nother ball of wax.
Permanent signs will bring in more money than temporary signs because of perceived value. The drawback to this though, is once a permanent sign is sold, the same customer won't need it again for several years, if ever.
There's money to be made in temporary signs more because of the volume you'll do rather than because of the perceived value. Do you want to do a lot of low cost temporary signs for $500. or would you rather do one or two permanent signs for $500 ?
There's as many approaches to this as there are people in the business. You have to decide what's going to work best for you based on your interests and your location.
Even though I'm taking the pessimistic view, I wish you good luck!
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
well said empy...
Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :
EMPY ... I gotta cast that in concrete Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
Empy, you should write a book, Oh you just did, Well Said, Right on the Money!
Posted by Glendon Vollmer (Member # 3618) on :
Empy Thankyou for your answer...It's a total slap into reality, which to be honest, is what I was looking for. The people I know, family and friends mainly, just say "go for it" but their not exactly looking from it at all angles, like what you gave me in response. I was planning on design being a selling point,looking around my area, there are really no spectacular signs, nothing that really turns heads. I do plan on opening a shop, dealing mainly with design and promo products, stationary, apparal, etc. and thought why not offer signs as well, give the whole package. Thankyou again, I honestly mean that. Glendon
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
Bravo! EmPy.......
Work with your Talent that no one else has.
Pricing can be the same for low end product.
But the more you do in the "Specialty Field" the better your income..
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
EPMY IS MY HERO!!!!!
Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
Actually, EMPY said it ALL, but Ill add about a penny's worth..... When I started I held down a regular job for years while I learned first hand by guys in the sign biz. They let me work with them for NO PAY, and I did hand lettering for FREE on the side whenever I got the chance. Learning lettering and layout is the MAIN thing, but learning PEOPLE is a whole other problem. Just about everybody here could right a book on THAT! There's a LOT to learn, including the realization that you do or don't have the talent and fortitude to "pick up" on all this. Hopefully, you have BRASS ones.....GOOD LUCK!
Posted by Bill Dirkes (Member # 1000) on :
Empy, I liked what you said so much I read 3 times! Man, there ain't an ounce of fat in that no where! Amen!
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Glendon, I appreciate you. Both for your question, and your reply. With your attitude, and approach at really looking at things for what they are, I think you're going to do well.
Empy! ... That was really good! Your answer took alot of time to type out. Exhausted me when I first scrolled it's length, but well worth the read ... Thanks!!!
quote:If they could buy their signs from a vending machine at the gas station on their way to work while snarfing down the eggamuffin they would.
How precious ... I loved that!!!
Glendon, your experiences will be your best teacher. And ours here will be of great help to you also. They are shared here on a daily basis. Hope you stick around, ... welcome to town!
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