Hello friends, I have a project to put up large pieces of printed Avery vinyl on a wall. 27 50"x72" pieces to be exact. I don't forsee any problems if I apply these using rapid tac application fluid, however, the instructions that came with the material say "do not apply using the wet method" they say if I do it will void the warranty. What's up! do they use inferior adhesive or do they assume it will not be done correctly.( I always use Gerber and have never had a problem) I'm concerned that installing them dry is asking for trouble with wrinkles on such a large piece. Each piece is $95., screw ups could add up fast! If someone could enlighten me on avery products or offer some advice I'd forever be beholden to ya. Thanks a bunch. Glen
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
I have been having problems with Avery lately and I apply almost everything dry.
Posted by Steve Aycock (Member # 3612) on :
There is some information regarding application on avery's site clik' here
I've never heard of a vinyl that couldn't be applied wet, that's odd.
If it's not too late, my preference by experience is Oracal (best bang fer'the buck).
Posted by Amy Brown (Member # 1963) on :
Which line of Avery is it?
I've applied the A8 series to all kinds of subtrates and most of the time wet with Rapid Tac. Never had a problem yet in two years of doing this.
Posted by Brian Snyder (Member # 41) on :
What specific Avery product are you talking about? If you go to averygraphics.com you have to look at the "Digital Printing" line of vinyls on the site, not the "Sign Making" section.
[ February 06, 2003, 07:49 PM: Message edited by: Brian Snyder ]
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
What kind of wall? Is it sheet rock? Cause if it is, apply the decals Dry, just use the hinge method.
[ February 07, 2003, 06:40 AM: Message edited by: Neil D. Butler ]
Posted by Glen Lemmon (Member # 2865) on :
Hello friends, Thanks for your responses. The vinyl is MPI 2010 or 2012 Calendared and is already printed. The customer bought a franchise and got the vinyl from the franchise office. I guess I'll do it dry, I don't want to be responsible for voiding his warranty. but I will charge more just in case! I bid $1800, I'm curious what others would have bid to put up 27 of these. Thanks again. Glen
Posted by Brian Snyder (Member # 41) on :
Glen- A couple of clicks through the averygraphics.com site yielded this: (averygrahics.com > N. American > Products/Multi-purpose inkjet > etc...
The 2010 film has a permanent adhesive. The 2012 film has a removable adhesive.
Posted by Tim Doyle (Member # 3548) on :
Hi Glen,
After we spoke on the phone last week about the Avery Graphics stance on wet application, I spoke to several of my colleagues on the subject. It is true that much of the Avery Instructional Bulletins say “Do not wet apply”. This came about several years ago when we had a rash of failures due to unproven methods and application fluids being used. Therefore, we made a general blanket statement of “do not use wet application”. This was probably an over-reaction when we know that our product is successfully wet applied everyday of the week. The major contributors to a failure while using wet application can usually be the failure to remove the application fluid from behind the material. Wet applying with rivets is a very good example of this failure. The second most common problem stems from the application fluid being used. The soap and water method can be very arbitrary since the number of different soaps and detergents in the market is huge and the water/soap ratio varies greatly! Many of these soaps/detergents have ingredients that either inhibits the adhesive from adhering to the substrate or even begin to eat away at the adhesive. In the future, we will be recommending a premixed fluid versus a concentrate.
The adhesives used on our materials are solvent-based acrylic adhesives and the adhesive bases are similar to those used throughout the signage industry. We are very confident that our adhesives perform very well when properly wet applied.
Secondly, I will be working through our Product Data Bulletins and Instructional Bulletins to determine the location of the “void the warranty” statement. As of right now, I know that this statement exists on our reflective products and some of our digital line. Regarding the Reflective products, the use of water will promote degradation of the material. The particular products that can not be applied wet will be noted on the individual Product Data Bulletins. Our warranty is for the product replacement and we will stand behind the product. If we find that the product did not perform, we will gladly replace the material.
I want to thank you for your posting. It has shown us that we have a couple of items to address in our literature. For your information, we will be modifying our instructional bulletins to reflect proper wet application techniques. This will include the addition of proper wet application techniques, vinyl material, substrates and recommended application fluids to be used. These IB’s will be updated in the next several weeks.
Once again, I appreciate the inquiry and I look forward to hearing how your application went.
Tim
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Ahh, another company that listens !
Good work Tim !!
Roger
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
As for your quote, do they all register into one big image? do you need to trim them? Are they all installed in the same building? To me $1800.00 sounds like good profit unless there are some unknown issues that will add a lot of time to the job. I like wet application on larger jobs, but I have found painted sheetrock to be very forgiving for dry applications (not that I would want to have to pull up anything, but if it goes down in the right spot, the bubble issue has not been too great a concern with slightly textured surfaces. If it was a slick glassy type surface I would want to wet apply.
Posted by Glen Lemmon (Member # 2865) on :
Thanks again for your responses, and hats off to Tim Doyle, a representative of Avery. I appreciate your calling me and helping with my questions. That's what I call customer service. Sadly though I didn't get the job. I went in to see the Guy today and his walls were already covered. I know for a fact other bids were higher, I guess when the "hmmm hawwers" saw somebody investigate and confidently say I can do it they got off their butts! Oh well, there are plenty of other jobs! Thanks again Glen.
Posted by Brian Snyder (Member # 41) on :
Tim - Just found this info (posted 2-14-03) on another sign industry website.
"We don’t recommend any kind of wet application for our MPI product line," says Molly Waters, spokesperson for Avery’s technical marketing department. "It will actually break down the adhesive. You may not have a failure right away, but it could fail before its recommended lifetime."
Hey Roger, hows it going? Just an opinion for your Avery letter. That looks official being scanned with logo & all, but at my screen resolution I can hardly read it. Maybe a better scan & posting a larger image would help, other wise re-typing it may be less "official" but put the logo back up there & if people can read it, it would say more for Rapid-Tac.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Doug,thanks, I really don't want to alter the original, as you can see it is a very old letter.
Its on the website under "endorcements" but its still a copy (poor one at that) worth a "big picture".
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