I was looking for (additional or better) suggestions for preping sign foam (including routed prismatic letters) for gold leaf. Here's what I currently do usually using 15lb foam:
1-Seal with Coastal FSC-88 water base (sprayed) 2-Sand and smoothe to desired finish 3-Prime with Ronan prime-all (optional) 4-Coat with "One Shot" chrome yellow 5-Slow size and gild next day. 6-Seal with clear coat, two part auto epoxy.
Anyone's additional suggestions or between stage processes would be most appreciated.
Thanks
Posted by Steve Fellows (Member # 3616) on :
Fran I'm sorry I don't have any suggestions for you. This is because I have never gold leafed a sign before. Do you have any advice as far as how to price gold leafed letters (flat or prismatic)?
Thanks
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
If it is in an area where people can't get their grubby lil fingers on it...don't clear coat it. If it is an exterior sign, epoxy isn't the best stuff to use as a clear coat....it oxidises and yellows. An acrylic is better, and a 2 part automotive clear is even better.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
If I'm not mistaken, I think Empy was telling me I could mix one shot chrome yellow with the size to save a step.
Please correct me if I'm wrong because I will be doing my first gold leaf work this weekend.
Posted by Fran Maholland (Member # 3609) on :
Thanks to all for your responses. Kepp 'em comin'. Posted by Kent Smith (Member # 251) on :
Never use an epoxy clear over gold as the expansion coefficient is too great and the clear will pull the gold off the surface in big flakes. This may take some time but trust me, it will fail. Two component urethanes are flexible enough to not cause a problem but I agree with Si, unless they are subject to abrasion or abuse, don't coat over the gold. It will last better by itself.
As to using 1Shot as a colorant, it is better not to use a paint. The drier in the enamel will cause the size to dry sporadically in small spots all over the surface which will cause ugly holidays. Use a pure pigment oil color or Mixtol tinting colors. You can use any oil color or any color oil because even if it would fade, once the gold is on, it won't matter. Use a color that has some contrast against the background so that you can see the holidays for patching.
Posted by Kathy Joiner (Member # 1814) on :
Have fun Doug. I just did my first 1-1/2 weeks ago. And you are right about mixing the yellow with the size. It may change drying time a little so mix just enough to barely color the size. You are going to love gold leaf and hope you don't waste as much as I do!
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Thanks Kathy, I fully intend to have fun, & I also hope to not waste too much, but it will be worth it to start on the road to gaining a new skill.
Thank also to Kent. I will be recieving your book from Product Sign Supply any day now. (That is you right?) Also Kent, were you at product signs mini-meet here in Maui 8 years ago? I always though you looked familiar from possibly doing a talk at that meet.
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kent Smith: As to using 1Shot as a colorant, it is better not to use a paint. The drier in the enamel will cause the size to dry sporadically in small spots all over the surface which will cause ugly holidays. Use a pure pigment oil color or Mixtol tinting colors.
I did not know that. Been tinting my slow size with a drop of 1-Shot for years with no problems. Maybe if you add too much...?
Fran, we use most of the same materials you mentioned, in a slightly different way.
1-Seal with Coastal FSC-88 water base (brushed, rolled or sprayed) 2-Sand to remove any big lumpys or junk 3-Paint with alkyd enamel/with hardener added (if brushed or rolled, we knock it down by dragging a foam brush over it) 4-Paint 2nd, flowing coat with alkyd enamel/with hardener added (if spraying, the 2nd coat can often be done later the same day) 5-Slow size next day with a soft lettering brush (add drop of 'shot' so we can see what we painted) 6-Gild following day / burnish with damp cotton ball. That's it, no clear.
Our 1 primer , 2 topcoats has served us pretty well, even for high gloss backgrounds. If there were patch spots or other problems with the bare foam, a second primer coat may be in order. I think the reason get away with single primer and not excessive sanding is we really lay on the top coats. Because of the hardener, there's no curing problems with heavy coats. They dry to the bone. Anyway, it works for us.
Posted by Fran Maholland (Member # 3609) on :
Thanks again...
First a couple of replies:
Steve Fellows (on pricing): Steve, I'd say figure your GL prep time for the letters per the steps outlined in this subject (above). Then your time to leaf and clear coat plus cost of materials, specifically gold. There's no set formula as many of us price according to the square footage of the overall sign which, in these parts, ranges from $80.00/sq. to $112.00/sq. Getting back to the pricing formula...based on one letter...add up your time to prep and leaf plus materials times your/an hourly rate and whala...that'd be it. (you may have to back up and "tolerance" the price if it seems a little steep. For instance leaf is anywhere from $20.00 to $24.00 a book. If it takes you eight leaves to gild the letter...do the math. Hope this answers your question.
Joe Rees: Traa on the steps, Joe, 'cept I like to base coat the the surface with a one shot chrome yellow in case holidays occur during or later without touching up necessarily. Sometimes tint with a red to see size coverage....eyes are decent (still) so I make sure all is sized before leafing with or without tint. Question: Can size and leaf be applied to the raw FSC-88?
Thanks to all again! Looking forward to many knowledgeable exchanges. I've been doing GL for years, but have had some problems with it recently and am watching and inquiring about where I may have made mistakes.
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