This is topic The cost of Letterhead Meets in forum Old Archives at The Letterville BullBoard.


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Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
 
I'm the type of person who loves to learn as much as possible every day.I watch the BB more than I really should in case I get some new knowledge.I live in an area where I can't advertize my shop so I'm not getting a lot of work.I guess you could call me a fool but I love painting signs no mater what is involved.I have been to a couple of Letterheads and would like to attend others.This will not be posible if the prices keep going up.In the US.meets I have seen prices as low as $40.00 plus rooms but in Canada it's $175.00 plus rooms.What would these meets be if you took away tours and golf tournaments.Forgive me for sounding upset but I am.Just figure it out$175.00 meet charge-200.00 for hotel-100. for gas to get there and back-then $300.00 for emer.and in pocket money.$875.00 min. and thats without my wife going.I guess I will miss another meet and read about it here on the BB.
 

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Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
 
Be a little more choosy about your meets...two of the finest meets n the country are annual meets Joey Hutsons in Louisiana every january $65.00 entry our room was $49. a nite for two nites...food doesn't matter(you gotta eat when yer home too) but Joey feeds you everything but breakfast and then he has doughnuts and coffee.
T-shirt and doorprizes that sometimes are worth more than your entry.

The other is Fred's meet in Oklahoma City (look to future meets) coming up in March...$65.00 there also and there are 50 and 60 dollar rooms available in OKC Frd feeds you coffe and doughnuts...and lunch.T-shirt and door prizes here too.

Both of these meets are the most hands on meets I've had the priviledge to enjoy.

Oh and there are always plenty of Canadians there every year. Infact barb told me last night that her and Steve will be there this year (again)Adn this year Jon Butterworth (Bushie) and his lovely wife Sue will be coming in all the way from Austrailia (now there's some expense)

If you come the night before you are invited to our Shop Warming (no charge).

"werks fer me ,it'll werk fer you"

Hope you make it. You deserve it!

[ January 21, 2003, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: Monte Jumper ]
 

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Posted by Santo (Member # 411) on :
 
I've never been to a large meet or an international event. Like Monty said, Joey Hutson's meets comprise 2 of the 3 meets I've attended. I'd like to go to more and bring the wife along, but time and funds are an issue. If I can drive and get a reasonably priced clean room those expenses usually run around $150-165 for the weekend. In Joey's case, where they go 18 hours both Friday and Saturday and the half day Sunday that is less than 4 dollars an hour for a constant learning and practice opportunity if you are so inclined.
Monty mentioned the doorprizes and I have benifited greatly in those areas by winning an IWATA Eclipse and a full set of Lazerline Brushes, Panels, rolls of vinyl, and much more. I way out front.
Now I'm trying to get to Freds.
No golf and no tours.

[ January 21, 2003, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: Santo ]
 

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Posted by Robert Beverly (Member # 1907) on :
 
Randy

I understand your demise but might offer you an insight that only those hosting these meets can appreciate.

Very few of you folks may not realize the costs in putting these on nor the time it takes to prepare the menu for food, arrangement of space, and costs up front to receive the necessary goods to be used by the different folk coming..panels etc.

If it weren't for the extreme generosity that industry sponsors have willingly donated such as DR. J, One Shot, etc. Without these fine folks helping out, there would be an additonal shortage.

I can tell you that I lost a major chunk of change and know that another person that has hosted meets for a long time has never broken even...to say the least of the shop down time that is lost.

I challenge anyone that has never hosted one to put one on and see for yourself the enormous amount of recources that have to be compromised to make an event succesful. We do it because WE LOVE IT!...

and the added extra of learning something that helps the bottom line immensly makes the experience well worth it.

Hope this helps
 

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Posted by Pierre Tardif (Member # 3229) on :
 
I agree 100% with your concern Randy, so I'll review the activities included in the fee. But you have to keep in mind that you still have 9 meals included and a meet T-shirt as a souvenir, that leaves around $75-80 per head to pay for Tent, tables, chairs, port-a-toilet, mobile kitchen renting, etc... Only insurance for a 3 days meeting like this cost close to $1000. By chance, I have friends who are willing to help for the foods, the convenience and the cleaning. In other hands remember that it's Quebec and you can't compare prices with the States where the cost of everything is cheaper. Hope you'll come!
 

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Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
 
I'm with Monte, be a little more choosy about which meets you go to. I went to Joey Hutson's meet for under three hundred, and that included what I spent at the Lazerlines booth. This was my second year and both times I have learned something major! I go more for the hands on type of meets. I've been going to meets for over twenty years and have never been to one with a golf tournementand it's not that there haven't been any either, it's just that type of meet with all the extra events and organization just doesn't appeal to me.
 

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Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
 
Pierre I'm not just commenting just on your meet.I think I'm just frustrated with the way my own business has gone this year-the exchange rate and the huge amount of taxes we pay here in Ontario.I know there is an extreme amount of expence in putting a meet on with insurance and rent plus food.I am still trying to get there and will let you know soon.Even if the meet was in the USA.like Monte said the exchange rate adds .60 to every dollar.Thankyou Randy
 

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Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
 
Golf tournaments? Where's the meet?!? The purpose of going *IS* for the meet, right?

I'm with Monte and George.

I went to Fred's in Oklahoma City last year.. when things are rockin and rollin' from 7am til 2am each day, there's no time for golf!

I'm planning on going to Fred's again this year and I'm pretty sure it's only gonna cost me about $200.

If you really want it to happen, there are ways to make it happen.. surely someone else is driving and maybe they have room for another couple.. or maybe share a hotel room.. or find somebody local that doesnt mind putting you up in their place.
 

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Posted by Source Signs (Member # 1164) on :
 
Randy.
[I live in an area where I can't advertize my shop]...This statement has me confused. What does that mean? Please explain.
 

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Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
 
Soem shops are in residential neighborhods and cannot advertize, Some shops are in restricted areas and cannot do ads either.

Soem shops are so far remote that the easy cheap stuff will not do any good.
 

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Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
 
Susan; Curtis hit right on the head.
 

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Posted by Ryan E Young (Member # 2325) on :
 
If you are ever in the south carolina area just drop in for a small panel jam, addmision is only a six pack. I have started making freinds that are in a 30 min area of the shop. We have started trying to get together once every mounth just to practice. No shop jobs just fun stuff and experimenting with new tools and styles. You might try locating some guys in your area.
 

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Posted by Bob Timmerman (Member # 2503) on :
 
Ryan E,
Where in South Carolina and a six-pack of what!
 

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Posted by Troy Haas (Member # 472) on :
 
Randy,
I like others, have been to several meets, large and small. From the 1998 International meet in Bloomington,In with over 350 sign folks to hosting my own meet a few years back with about 25 people.
I like both types because they are so different. Although, I prefer the smaller meets. It just gives more time for 1 on 1, or small groups to talk, teach, meet or catch up with old friends.

The larger meets are more expensive, but they do offer more usually. I think Bloomington was $ 150.00 for the 4 days, with food included, + room and travel of course. My meet was $20.00 and included soft drinks, coffee and donuts each morning. A shirt was $10.00

I like Ryan's idea of getting together on a monthly basis or whatever works for your group.

Hope business picks up for you !!!!!
Best of luck and looking forward to meeting you in person at a meet someday!!!
Troy

[ January 21, 2003, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: Troy Haas ]
 

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Posted by Terry Colley (Member # 1245) on :
 
Randy,I think you could try hosting a meet on a small scale, find the letterheads who are nearest to you and invite say 6 people over for the day. In the UK we have only one meet per year,many smaller groups have come out of this and quite a few mini meets happen, it only takes 2 or 3 to get together to push the learning. I hosted the 2000 meet for about 120 people from all over the world, with careful planning I broke even on the meet and gave a lot away in door prizes thanks to many of the merchants here.However it did consume the life of this family for many months, out of that some of us do get together say to do a day of glue chip glass or whatever
cheers Terry
 

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Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
 
I'd like to title this rant..."NO MATTER WHAT THE COST!" A Letterhead Meet, at any scale, large or small will propel you to a higher level of ability, it will connect you to a wealth of knowledge with people not just in your town but...THE WORLD. By sitting and talking with one experienced sign maker and asking question after question about the materials/techniques/sources,etc.to do a certain job back at your shop to make YOU more MONEY?....To travel to new places/countries/villages/cultures.etc.? To help other people as well as feeling good about yourself? To join a cause to help brighten a once dingy small town in nowhere America, and say that you drove X amount of miles and spent X amount of days away from the shop to spend X amount of dollars for Lodging-food-drink-gas to paint with some real pros who have a passion for what they do? To learn AS MUCH as a YEAR in a tech school that you can learn in 3 days?

IS IT THE PEACE CORPS? IS IT L. RON HUBBARDS DIANETICS? TONY ROBBINS SEMINAR? No my friends.....It's a little ole thang called............LETTERHEADS.

My question is this Randy...How can you afford NOT to go to a MEET? WHo cares how much they cost..LOOK WHAT YOU GET FOR IT!!!

Please don't take the "ALL CAPS" as a scream at you....I'm just doing it to em-fa-size the point. I will be hosting a meet at this time next year here at my shop in Arctic Minnesota. What will registration be? Oh..probably $75.00 80 bucks...just covering the port=a=johns-food-coffee etc. I like to have at least one night of live music too. I'm also hosting the International Meet in 2005. Cost of that...oh maybe $170.00 to $200. Ask anybody who was here in 1999 if their $175.00 was too much. They probably can't remember what they paid cuz they didn't care, they were HAVING TOO GOOD A TIME!
And you can too.

This is not the first time this issue has been raised. Just before my meet in '99, this topic was discussed AT LENGTH and it went to over 75-60 replies...(Thanks to Terry Teague!) and I'm sure it will come up again. But please keep in mind if you are a new reader to this web site or the sign industry as a whole.....You will not find another industry that has an unselfish pouring out of training it's novices. This is what the Letterhead Movement is all about....since 7 guys got together in Denver Colorado over Green Chili, Beer, and a few old sign books. The year was 1975 and thank god they did, otherwise , where would we be?

So carry the Movements roots high, and reach down to pick someone up, cuz we're all in this together...NO MATTER WHAT THE COST!
 

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Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
 
CAN I GET A HELL YEAH!!!?

CAN I GET AN AMEN?
SOUND OFF!!! GIMME AN AMEN FROM WHEREVER YOU ARE!

LET"S RUN THIS POST TO OVER 100!!!!
 

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Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
 
AMENHALLELUYAH! OH HELL YEAH! GO GETTEM MEYER!!!!
 

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Posted by Terry Whynott (Member # 1622) on :
 
AMEN Brother Mike!

You coming to Quebec City this summer? There's some culture you probably haven't experienced yet. Poutine anyone?

I'm saving my pennies to get to the Sign Painters Picnic 2005 and might even get me some new ski-doo boots for the Winter Muster (Just don't ask me to play hockey!)

Can't shop owners write off the costs of attending a meet as a business expense?

[ January 22, 2003, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: Terry Whynott ]
 

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Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
 
Hell Yeah! I always do...save as many reciepts as ya can....Red Light districts don't give reciepts...i think...
AMEN BROTHER WHYNOTT!!!!
 

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Posted by bill riedel (Member # 607) on :
 
Way to go Mike! I have made as many meets as possible over the years and never regretted going to any of them. In fact, just when it seems that they just couldn't get any better, they always do.

Just the other day I picked up an old Signs of the Times magazine and was shocked at how crude the lettering and layout was compared to what you will see today. The plain and simple fact is that only because of the Letterheads, the quality of signs all over has risen to a new high.

To mention the cost, well it always cost me double to make a meet because I had to pay someone to stay with my disabled wife while I was away. I always felt it was well worth it.
 

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Posted by Pierre Tardif (Member # 3229) on :
 
The registration form is now ready for FRENCH KISS A BRUSH. $135 CDN OR $90 U.S. will be the fee
including t-shirt, apron and 9 meals!
Golf, fishing and guided tour will be charge separately. Take a look at the link.

http://www.letterhead.com/meets/Kissabrush/reg.htm
Have Fun!

[ January 22, 2003, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Pierre Tardif ]
 

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Posted by J & N Signs (Member # 901) on :
 
Amen, Mike!
 

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Posted by Ryan E Young (Member # 2325) on :
 
To Bob and any one else in the area my shop is 20 miles south of Charlotte NC and it must be a six pack of any thing that makes my work look better when the night is done !!!

PS Amen Mike !!!!
 

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Posted by Tim Meyer (Member # 3565) on :
 
HELL YEAH!!!
 

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Posted by Alan Ackerson (Member # 3224) on :
 
Hi Randy,

I have to say I can "Feel your pain" as Uncle Sam is trying to pull out my brains (and other delicate parts) through my wallet. Times are tough but persiverance(sp?), will and smart thinking will get you (us) through. We ARE profesional problem solvers. This is just one more on the way.

But...I don't feel you can put a price tag on a meet when it is this important to us as individuals and as a whole.

After last year's meet on Mars (a first) I was able to raise my prices and live with it. Good bad or indifferent. I lost a few jobs because of this but the up in quality (design & techniques involved) were enough to bring in more/other/better customers who are willing to pay the amount deserved.

If you or anyone wants to split a room and or transportation, give me a shout.

Hang in there Randy, don't let things get you down. If you can put 2-3 bucks a day in a jar somewhere you will have between 400-600 bucks by August. Consider a large cup of coffee, buttered roll and the daily paper costs that much each day.

peace
 

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Posted by Stefan Brandt (Member # 3564) on :
 
Hey everybody,

have you tryed to leave your home without spending any money lately?
It´s more than worth it to spend it for a meet.
I´ve been to my first meet last year in england, becaaus it´s the closest chance the get on a meet for me. I wish to go to some us -meets but the shop needs me. US Trips means overseas for me and that hurts badly for a weekend.
It was one of the most (job-relatet) inputgiving thing i did so far.
Keep the honest work, or bring a peace of it to germany(or I will) ......To host a meet in germany would not be to bad , lets think about it
 

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Posted by Stefan Brandt (Member # 3564) on :
 
The missing peace of my words..
LUYAH! OH`hh HELL YEAHAAAAAA!
Best Wishes from the German Schildermen
 

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Posted by Jay Allen (Member # 195) on :
 
Somebody always says it so concisely - and it's never me!! Why am I always so long-winded?

I will echo Mike Meyer's statements - you can't afford NOT TO GO to as many meets as you can - until you feel you have enough knowledge. But exactly when does that occur? (truthfully, never - but...) It occurs when your business demands start to exceed the time you must commit to attending a meet. Just ask me - I know personally. When is the last time anyone saw me at a meet? June and August 2001 at the Int'l in Milwaukee and Nancy and Noella's Walldog Jam. Do I miss it? Abso-freaking-lutely. Has my business flourished mostly due to the knowledge shared and talents exhibited by others so I didn't need to lose money learning 'the hard way'? Damn right.

The cost (estimated) of attending all those meets? I spent somewhere around $25,000 - with hotels, meet cost, airfare, etc. I bet Mike Meyer and Doc Welty have the record, though!! But think about that... $25,000 American dollars - Canadian that would be about $35,000, right? Either way - am I a fool for spending that? NO. You may think so now that you see the hard numbers because that's a hell of a lot of money for anyone in the sign business. But that was vacation (thereby the need for golf tournaments), business (thereby the need for drinks with lunch), and gathering with friends (thereby the need for drinks at lunch AND dinner). Can you place a limit on value for those things? I don't think so.

I feel closer to some of my Letterhead friends than members of my own family. Was $25,000 too much for that? I sell skills and talents I learned for very little money - for great big money. Was $25K too much? I get the privilege of writing for a trade magazine by virtue of contacts I made at meeets. Was $25K too much for that? Should I go on? You get out of it what you put into it - just like real life.

I respect the limits some people place on themselves - but they are just that - limits placed by them. Anyone - and I can't emphasize that enough - ANYONE can have the same experience I have had - just by hard work - and spending a lot of cash and a lot of time. But if you like small meets then go to them. They're out there to attend - as many have already stated. Don't damn the hosts of the big meets for not adjusting to fit YOUR limitations. Me? I like the meets big - the bigger the better. It shows our trade/business/profession in a positive light. More so than just working the weekend hidden away in someone's shop. But those small meets are certainly a great time also. In fact, they are wonderful for the intimacy and closeness that you can't always find at the larger meets.

But people, we need to promote our profession!!! That's why people swallow hard and host the big meets. They understand that - and accept the burden so they can keep our profession in the forefront. Jeez, most of the future hosts already know they will lose money and time - and then they get to read someone's complaint about the high cost. That complaint is a lot louder than the compliments they'll get - let me tell you.

When I hosted the 1997 Int'l some guy from Jersey came up to me early in the meet and said "I came all the way here to learn about pinstriping - and you cancelled the pinstriping seminar". I felt like ****. But Alan Johnson and Billy Beckner found me and said "find the guy and we'll teach him personally - just the two of us". Pretty swell, huh? That's the Letterhead spirit at its best. But then they made me feel even better by saying "what kind of a dumbass comes to a mural meet to learn how to pinstripe anyway"? Well, that did make some sense - but I still felt badly because I let just one person down. When someone complains about the high cost of meets it really hurts the host more than anyone. They are bustin' their ass to not forget anything and then somebody always starts complaining.

Please understand, most all of us who have attended meets were in this same position of trying to justify the expense of attending meets. Same thing for the hosts of meets. But to the man or woman they will all tell you that it is the best money - or time - spent. The old adage is "you gotta' spend money to make money". That couldn't be more true.

Please understand this one thing: you work will change for the better and ultimately you will reap the benefits of the money you spent. Then you will make enough to move your shop to a location you can advertise - or you can stay where you are and just charge more for the skills you learned. If it doesn't work that way then maybe the sign business should just be a hobby and you stop trying to earn your sole living from it. Then money isn't the issue - but you still satify the passion you - and all of us - feel for sign design and signmaking.

Please don't construe this as criticism. It is just a voice from one of the lucky past hosts of a large meet trying to make sure everyone understands why meets take the shape they do.

Respectfully,
Jay Allen
 

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Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
 
Canadian?

Please click here.
 

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Posted by Mike Languein (Member # 319) on :
 
It's still a lot of money if you haven't got it. I see alot of meets advertised here on the BB that I'd love to go to, and afterward reading about them I feel left out - But I can't afford to do it and I will not get near an airplane.

25 years ago Doc Guthrie used to have get-togethers with L.A. Trade-Techies at someone's shop or home. There was never any charge at all - just show up. If we wanted pizza we chipped in and made a call. Most of the time there were only a handful of people show up but it was great and we did this every couple months or so. There wasn't much in the way of hands-on but we showed pics of our work, got honest critiques of it and got to know each other.

As part of the class we were urged to go on personal field trips to local shops and take notes. You learn in about a nano second who the ones are who are willing to share knowledge and who the knuckle heads are.

One time Doc had bought a new (to him) truck, had it painted and took it out to Bob Bond's for pinstriping and we all went to watch, about 30 of us. It turned into a late night fest - and if any money changed hands it was from Doc to Bob for the striping job. We had never heard of any "Letterheads" back then.

When I opened my shop in '78 I had a meet - also at no charge, and the only prep work was the phone calls and flyers I sent out to all the local shops and Trade-Tech and I swept the floor. 90 or more people came to it and there wasn't room inside for even half that many so subseqent meets were held at a larger shop a mile away - we had two there, a year or so apart, and well over 100 came each time. Anybody who wanted to demo a product was invited to show their stuff. We never thought to ask suppliers to donate stuff for drawings.

I'd have meets today if I had the place to do it - but don't. Insurance for such a thing is a necessity any more, and if you're going to have people coming out from far away it makes more sense to have a whole weekend to play. Ours were all just one night stands. What's with renting Port-a-Potties? The recent meets I've been to have had around 75-100 people and one shop restroom was more than adequate.

One meet I've attended the owner charges $10-$15 a day each, claiming it helps to pay for the food, and they put out a couple bags of chips and a pot of coffee...we buy our own lunch. A T-Shirt is extra. Is it necessary to do that? Maybe not, but it's well worth the $30/$45 to go all weekend. Add to that travel and lodging. Then, again, the shop owner will make $1,500 to $4,500 on a 3 day meet. I just think if I were claiming the charge was to offset food cost I'd put some out there, but that's just me, I'm cheap. Personally I like to see costs be kept down. The Boise meet was a killer and I wouldn't have wanted to have missed it for the world - but it cost $300 to walk in the door. Lucky for me I have friends who live in Boise!

Another recent meet the Porta-Potties were dispensed with, sandwich stuff was put out at lunch time, several folding tables were rented, and the charge to attend was $10 for a 3 day meet, and I think there were around 30 or so of us. That one cost the owner around $500, which he writes off. Earlier meets he charged $30 to attend and anybody putting on a demo got in for free and he made a few bucks on it.

There are ways around spending a lot of money to go to a meet - have a small one of your own - invite your competition. Just don't miss out.
 

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Posted by John Byrd (Member # 825) on :
 
Hearty A-MENS from the pews here!!

I understand the problem with $$$ right now but the international in fantastic outdoor air-conditioned Mazzeppa, MN was worth more than anyone paid. Save for one however long it takes ( just be ready for 2005 ) to get to an international for something serious in the way of letterheads meets...or opt for one of the smaller meets for some brotherhood of the brush fellowship. web page

[ January 22, 2003, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: John Byrd ]
 

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Posted by Kent Smith (Member # 251) on :
 
Ditto Mike, Bill and Jay. I have hosted and helped to host so many meets I have lost count, the biggest being the Internationals in '85 and '95 and helped with 2000. More than that, I have totally lost count of the meets I have attended. Not to trump you Jay, our running total has exceeded $75,000. Having said that, have you looked at what to expect to pay in college tuition in the next few years? I have no idea how my 8 year old grandaughter will be able to afford a 4 year degree.

I will never regret the time or money spent for a meet, even if I come home only with having spent a weekend visiting with my best friends. Even in my circumstance, I always come away with having learned something new however. We have had to choose sometimes when the money is tight or there are just too many meets to practically attend. I have missed the last couple of Internationals due to circumstances here with aging family members and tight money. We have however managed to attend a few small meets and we always try to get together locally a few times a year. Judi has written many acrticles and a couple pamphlets about hosting with the bottom line, start with a few local friends and a pot of coffee. That helps to sooth the sole when you just can't make a bigger meet for whatever reason.

Keep the faith and keep the spirit alive, attend a meet to teach and you will learn. All that work at home, IOAFS. Time and money short, drop in here to keep in touch. Need a Letterhead friend, go make one of the guy down the street. The movement is well known worldwide, even in the biggest shops as they too have been effected by this wonderful thing.
 

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Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
 
I'm not even a signpainter and I'm driving two hours, getting a hotel for the weekend and going to a meet soon just because you guys are too much fun to be around.

It's inspiring for me to be with people who are creative and want to make the world a more beautiful place with their artwork.

And I can't even write it off!
Get thee to a meet my friend!!!
 

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Posted by Aart Geurtsen (Member # 3568) on :
 
Hee there!

I am not a signpainter either, but I totally agree with Kimberly.
I am a student from the Netherlands. In 1999 I went to high school in Minnesota for a year and I lived with Mike Meyer and his family. During that time Mike took me to some Letterhead meets. The first one was the big international meet in Mazeppa. Later Mike and I went to Mark Fairs meet in Montgomery, Alabama and we also went to Hot Springs, Arkansas to help a friend of Mike with signs for an amusement park. These were good opportunities for me to travel and see some more of the States, but being at the meets was a great experience too! It was awesome to see the stuff that the people at the meets were painting or had painted. In the Netherlands you don’t see anything like that. There is almost no hand-painting. That is a big shame, because it is so nice! I’m really glad that I’ve had the opportunity to see some of it and, who knows, maybe I just might show up at one of the meets in Minnesota to have a look again.
 

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Posted by John Smith (Member # 1308) on :
 
I also have been to DOZENS of meets and hosted my own meet. I do consider mine an "average" meet, price wise.... but, Don & Dora HULSEY's meet in Kentucky was THE BEST as far as food goes!!! Them guys from ShadeTree Cooks & catering for ALL occasions (Terry Stinnett and Rich Harris) put on ONE helluva FEED !! (( shadetreecooks@aol.com ))... I mean these guys can COOK !!! SLOW SMOKED BAR-B-QUE
But,,,, you know the price for the event and amenities in ADVANCE.... it is up to you to attend or not..... if you do attend... don't pout over it afterwards .... you made the decision to go....
Just look over the schedules very closely and go to the ones that you can LEARN from and have a great time. Unfortunately, I can't host a meet this year due to relocation in progress.... Instead, Cheryl and Don are going to host an AWESOME meet in April in Sunny Florida and a LOT of folks from the Great White North are attending..... hope you can too. Food will be AWESOME... rooms are decently priced and air travel is affordable. And, if you drive down like Steve & Barb..... the road trip is SPECTACULAR !!!
Good Luck to ya and hope to see ya soon !!!
 

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Posted by AdrienneMorgan (Member # 1046) on :
 
Mike and Jay said it ALL!!!!!

big AMEN from me as well!!!

Look for a meet here in 2004 (I heard a rumour)

And as a person who has been to a few meets and has very little money...there are enough meets around to choose what fits your budget...also, there are creative ways to cut the costs,

i.e....see if someone can accomodate you in the area, someone who will trade (a mural, house sign, for instance...)

Take advantage of Southwest airline's email specials (I've earned TWO FREE sets of tickets so far) offer to do demos (might get you in free or discounted) offer to help with set-up and/or clean-up.....

Everyone should go at least once a year!!!

Ask Michael Boone if he will go to a second one now!!

A:)
 

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Posted by Mike Lavallee (Member # 320) on :
 
here's an idea,
how about inviting all the people you want to learn from to your place, invite the wives, feed em 3 meals a day, provide drinks, have em teach you all their secrets they learned throughout a lifetime at the university of hard knocks, and supply them with panels, paint, and the run of your shop for a weekend. that may be a cheaper way out! sorry, I don't mean to be a jerk but HELL!
it cost everybody that goes to these meets the very same as you or more! some have long flights they had to pay for above and beyond the cost of the hotel and meet.
ask yourself what priceless education you could possibly get out of a meet if you actually went there to learn something to improve your own skills as a craftsman as well as increasing your earning potential instead of going there to be ingage in Cofee Talk. I see more and more people go to these things and not pick up a brush or get involved in any demonstrations and thats ok but they knew the price of admission and if thats how they choose to spend the weekend so be it.
if you want to talk about cost, I traded work for $1,900. worth of camera work, color seps, screen costs and tshirt printing and the cost of the shirts for the swampland meet! that was a donation on my part that I felt comfortable with, then on top of that I had to pay for 2 plane tickets, a rental car, food, and hotel! I don't even want to think about what I spent to basically spend the weekend TEACHING! and I loved doing it! Please don't complain about having to spend a couple hundred bucks to spend time with some of the finest people you'll ever meet to share trade secrets with, have fellowship, and just plane enjoy being with!
if you want to feel better about what you've been spending on meets just take a look at what it costs to go to just ONE airbrush getaway class where you get no one on one personal training, you are one of about 50 to 75 sheep in a class and all for the resonable cost of $400 to $600 per seminar!!!!!
 

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Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
 
Another Hell Yeah! Thanks Mike!
 

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Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
 
Hey Pierre how do you expect me to get into that ity-bity 'xl' t-shirt.I really get the point PEOPLE! Hell Yeah !!!!!

[ January 23, 2003, 08:34 AM: Message edited by: Randy Campbell ]
 

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Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
 
At Next year's "Winter Muster" we'll do away with Port-a-potties. there will be lots of YELLOW SNOW. Or bring your own port-a-pottie, we'll have a bob cat to help unload yours off your shop vehicle. How bout pinstriping port-a-potties and call it "Pinheads paint the Head?" Give a crap, paint me. Brushin' Bulletin on the Biffy. Outsourcing out at the outhouse. "Letterheads on the LOO"

Mike Languein SOUND OFF!
 

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Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
 
I have to jump back in here...I really don't care what someone charges for a meet ...if it is one I want to attend...I will.

That having been said ...I'm not likely to go to a meet where my day is scheduled into seminars I have trouble sitting thru. I've always been a hands on guy and enjoy "one on one" sharing.

Everyone should follow their own concience...if you have the money and the meet fits your style "go for it" if it doesn't look around .

No one will be mad!

No matter what your approach is, it's still going to be less expensive than a college degree...take less time out of your life...and in most cases be more rewarding.
 

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Posted by Santo (Member # 411) on :
 
Hell is Right Mr. Meyer. Look at this 40+ replies to a valid Letterhead topic.

IF you've ever talked to the people that put on the meets, you quickly hear that they have very little advance registration. That means they are putting their money on the line, in most cases without any committment from the participants. So if you see attending a certain meet in the future make your plans and pre-register as a courtesy to your host or hostess. They are doing everything they can to assure a successful meet for the benefit of everybody.

[ January 23, 2003, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Santo ]
 

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Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
 
How do you say "Hell Yeah" in Spanish Santo?
Hell yeah BROTHER SANTO!!!
by the way, it's 14 below zero here today....Lock the door...let's head for the pond...IT'S HOCKEY WEATHER!!!!!!!
 

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Posted by Mike Languein (Member # 319) on :
 
Señor Meyer = will you be posting pics of the Yellow Snow Graphics Competition? I expect you guys in the Frozen North are adept at 'signing' in the snow - I have to go to the local mountains to 'bone up' on my winter autograph. But this raises a somewhat sexist question -- won't this event, by it's very nature, exclude the ladies from participation?

Re: Porta Potties,
I don't take no sh**
I don't give a sh**
______________________
I'm not in the sh** business


 

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Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on :
 


[ January 25, 2003, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Mark Fair Signs ]
 

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Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
 
Pierre;do you know which hotels and motels are in the area of your shop.I have a list of four that have great rates. Thanks
 

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Posted by Alan Ackerson (Member # 3224) on :
 
LOL

What's with the field hockey sticks Mark? hehehe Is it still a foul to to use the ol' backhander?
 

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Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
 
Hey Mikey.....I don't THINK so!
 

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Posted by Pierre Tardif (Member # 3229) on :
 
Randy give those hotels name, i will take a look if they are respectable. Those that we check for now are around $160 anight. I know you can have better rates but I don't want to send somebody to those dumps with vibrating beds and mirror on ceiling!!! Anyway you can only rent those place at an hourly rate! By the way XXXL t-shirt will be available.

Have fun and let me know!
 

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Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
 
I really think we are missing the real problem here. It's not the cost of meets, but the lack of income. Everything is too expensive when you are broke.

Let's be honest. Many of us in the sign business face a constant challenge just paying the bills, let alone doing anything extra. Let me be the first to confess that I am one of these people. It's time we started to ask ourselves why and start working together to change things.

We've been blessed with the opportunity to meet many Letterheads. They are talanted, hard working, dedicated people working insane hours. No matter how hard they try, there never seems to be anything extra left over at the end. What are we doing wrong? Are we finally so sick and tired of being sick and tired to to admit that our way of thinging and doing things may be flawed?

I know some reading this will shake their heads with disbelief. They'll talk about lowering overhead, charging more, living within your means and so on. My goal is not to fix the blame, but begin to fix the problem. We have a community of compassionate people here, united by our love of creating. Learning to render that perfect convex letter is wonderful, but I want to see Letterville used more to address the business end of signs.

Being broke all the time is no fun. For some, the hardest part might be starting to believe it is ok to want more. There are self esteem issues at work here along with some stinking thinking. It all begins with admitting we have a problem and having the will to change.

Anyone else sick and tired of being sick and tired? Let's talk.
 

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Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
 
Check out Op's post for the small business. A re-print of good information that he found. I don't really feel that I am having too hard of a time making ends meet, but good information like that is part of the reason. I read through it & it seems to be on the mark to me. Where it speaks to proper use of advertising dollars it seems to be good info for how we watch our expenses, while at the same time speaking about the line of reasoning we might use to help us sell our products & services.
 

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Posted by Pierre Tardif (Member # 3229) on :
 
Mr Mayor is right 100%. The main problem i guess is that we are artist and we are selling OUR talent OURSELVES and we want so much to do our stuff that we tend to give it. Do you think the professional athletes would ask themselves for millions if they were dealing direct to with the owners?? No way, these guy would do it for nothing because they are so maniac of their sports that they would do it for nothing, that is why there's always an agent or a manager to deal for them. it's the same for comedians, actors, musician, singers etc... we have to step back at every signs that we do and think that the customer will ALWAYS make more money with this signs than you charge him doing it. We should sell our signs the same way the newspaper, the radio or the television sell their advertising. Not selling a piece of woods or a stroke of brushes but sell the value of a sign, always tell the customer about the income from the sign he's about to buy. Imagine that you hire a professional advertising salesman, I'm sure he'll be able to sell two truck door for $1500 or even a 4' X 8' $2000. Take only as a comparison the price they already pay for that tiny little add in the phone book, at least $80 month that means $960 for a 2 inches by 3 inches sign! Changing the way we sell sign on a value for the customer basis instead of an hourly rate and we'll find ourselves working at $100 an hour instead of $25.
 

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Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on :
 


[ January 25, 2003, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Mark Fair Signs ]
 

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Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike Languein:
Señor Meyer = will you be posting pics of the Yellow Snow Graphics Competition? I expect you guys in the Frozen North are adept at 'signing' in the snow - I have to go to the local mountains to 'bone up' on my winter autograph. But this raises a somewhat sexist question -- won't this event, by it's very nature, exclude the ladies from participation?

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Nope, the ladies will not be excluded from the competition, they can take their aim while standing up as well. Although not the traditional methods the ladies are accustomed too, it is definitely possible.. you can search online for yourself and find the answers within..

**Edit**: By the way, yes I have witnessed the technique in action.. it's amazing and awe-inspiring to say the least.

[ January 24, 2003, 03:08 AM: Message edited by: Mike Pipes ]
 

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Posted by AdrienneMorgan (Member # 1046) on :
 

quote:

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"The main problem i guess is that we are artist and we are selling OUR talent OURSELVES and we want so much to do our stuff that we tend to give it."

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yup!

Sticker...are you referring to those paper cones ya get at the gas station....I've considered it myself, altho, I have as yet to try it..

[ January 24, 2003, 04:17 AM: Message edited by: AdrienneMorgan ]
 

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Posted by John Jordan (Member # 2368) on :
 
Hi to all my Letterhead friends and those I know through the Internet,

Mike meyer, Bill Riedel, Jay allen, Mike (ossie) Lavallee and several of the others have said it all....the problem is not in the costing of the meets, but in using the new knowledge and ideas gained at both the small and large meets to your advantage. Having late last year organised the International Meet in Sydney I know first hand the problems in running a meet. Attendees turn up, no pre-registration notice, but still expecting you to have their T shirt, to have organised 7 meals for them, all at your cost if they fail to appear.

The knowledge, techniques, and information one can return home with after a meet is an education that a price cost on it could not be calculated, all this and the associated travel expences are all TAX DEDUCTABLE.
Each year I travel to two overseas Letterhead Meets,usually one in the States and one in the UK, and talking of costs, my first initial cost is a $3,000 airfare, then the costs of the meets and accommodation and I feel I get value for money.

Tell me where in the world you would find such an array of world class talent, on this week-end teachers, will give gladly any advice, help any query or give hands-on demonstrations at NO CHARGE whatsoever when their normal charge out rate would be far in excess of the meet cost. Just imagine the cost if you attended a Sign College for the same amount of hours with these teachers.

Here in Australia, the teaching of students is different than the States, it is by means of a four year apprenticeship working besides tradesmen combined with three years college training done by attending college one day a week.

Remember, you are really the only one who knows the true value of your work, attend one of these Letterhead meets, learn as much as you can, practice it and then charge accordingly, and remember this is in fact the cheapest education you can buy.
 

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Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
 
A Hell Yeah from Down Under! Thanks Johnny!
 

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Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
 
Thankyou mister Mayor;you were right on the money.And Pierre I will be at the meet.Mr. Jordan thankyou.Will email you with which hotel.

[ January 24, 2003, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: Randy Campbell ]
 

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Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by AdrienneMorgan:
[QUOTE]
Sticker...are you referring to those paper cones ya get at the gas station....I've considered it myself, altho, I have as yet to try it..

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A, nope! No paper cones required, it's all in technique!
 

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Posted by Jay Allen (Member # 195) on :
 
Very, very well said Mr. Shortreed/Mr. Mayor, by you and by a few others. Use the knowledge to go out and make more money to spend lavishly on attending more meets. That's the secret.

But don't ever, I mean ever "give your work away". That's what keeps us down as a trade. Too many willing to do anything just to keep a buck coming in - without realizing the long term effect of your actions. Love what you do by all means - but don't give it away.

Don't question how someone can charge so little for this sign or that sign - sell your talents to the right customers. Establish a reputation for great work and great service. That's been our formula for success - and many others we know in the profession. Maybe it'll work for you also.

As an aside to this particular discussion: Steve, I have watched you manage this board like a kindergarten teacher - and like a wise old philosopher (depending on the situation). May I just congratulate you on your even-handed way of fairly dealing with the many temperaments and personalities that infect this BB - and providing insights that at one time may have not been so clearly defined. Your devotion to improving this trade has become your passion and you seem to be doing a damn fine job. I only have time to lurk every now and then because of our workload. But when you step in as 'Mayor'/moderator it is only after emotion has leveled and the need for a 'cooler head' or wisdom seems to sink in better than when in the middle of one of the many confrontations. So I just want to say thank you. You have really 'gelled' as a proponent of our profession - and even if no one else is impressed, I am.
 

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Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
 

 

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Posted by PKing (Member # 337) on :
 
My "Duck Soup Splatter Jam" entry fee was $25oo
Everyone got a tee shirt,door prize,
Drinks and snacks for 3 days
and a sit down dinner
Everyone SEEMED to have a good time
We learned and taught,when ever asked to do so.
I always learn something NEW that has helped my
business sense,quality of work,AND my wallet.
To quote Jay:You CAN NOT afford NOT to attend.

Hope this helps

[ January 26, 2003, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: PKing ]
 

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Posted by Kent Smith (Member # 251) on :
 
I must jump in again. I have some difficulty relating to Steve's post. Our finances fluctuate with the economy but we make a good living, are always busy and find ourselves making choices as to how we spend our time and money. As Jay says, we are choosey about the customers and projects we accept. Judi and I have taught many a seminar on pricing, organization, marketing and profitability. All of this is often taught at most Letterheads meets and should be the first priority to any attendee. Learn how to be profitable from your peers so that going to a meet of any size will not be a financial hardship. Certainly we all must choose which meets to attend based upon the many ideas posted here already. Priorities in life must be set so that we all can accomplish our overall goals. If you have ever had the opportunity to hear Jay Allen or Jeff Cahill talk, you know how inspired you can be for this business and take that positive attitude home to make you more profitable and make your life easier. We have a unique business which ultimately we can control if one learns the skills. If your situation matches that outlined by the Mayor, then it is imperative that you spend some time with a successful Letterhead and learn how to improve your situation.
 

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Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :
 
Just FYI,

I'm on the commitee for the "LETTER-RIP ON RT. 66" meet.

I probably get in free, but that freedom comes with a huge price: endless meetings, several days worth of work loss crafting signs for the event and organizing a "kid's" event and I'm doing a seminar all three days on how to create monument signs ( the ones that look like huge fancy tomb stones.

My involvment will cost more than those that attend by a long shot. While I don't have to stay in motels or have costly travel expenses I ENJOY the burden of what ever expense to be a part of this meet.

There are creative ways to pay for your participation in a Letterhead meet.
1. Get a Part time job, deliver pizzas or something.
2. Add $15 bucks on every job for travel expensives
3. Get your butt off the BB and get out and go door to door, business to business and snap some work. A few extra jobs will more than pay for the meet expensives.
4. Drop your Yellow Page phone book add because it don't work anyway!
5. Sell raffel tickets to win a free truck lettering. Sell 1000 tickets for $1 each and letter the truck with scrap vinyl costing $3.00
6. Throw your spare change in a canister for 6 months.
7. Quite smoking.
8. Quite drinking beer, and soda pop...drink water only.
9. Stop eating steak...get use to p-nut butter, don't go out for expensive dinners.
10. Stop buying birthday presents.

THERE IS NO EXCUSE NOT TO FIND THE MONEY. if you want to get to a meet bad enough, the money is there. Use your imagination to find a way!

Hope you can make it to at least ONE meet this year.
 

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Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
 
I have to jump in too!!! From Mexico. We didn't get here for a month by being stupid in business or by being frivilious with our money. In fact we can afford to be "residents" here too!!!

We also contribute once in a while, answering and asking questions!!

Seems to me..and maybe it IS ONLY ME ...That Jay and all of his buddies only appear here when a question of the costs of a meet appear.

THIS has happened before. Jay ONLY posts about meet cost questions.

Does he EVER answer newbie questions???

I don't know the answer to THAT question...check the last 5 years of responses and see!!!!

[ January 27, 2003, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: Dave Grundy ]
 

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Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
 
Ola grundy.
I'll defend Jay on this one. I personally emailed Jay to help support the Letterhead Meet Movement to this post. I asked him to add his words because he is a former meet host. When and how he posts is his business. But this post was a request. Are you eating the worm?
 

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Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
 
Dave....who are "all of his buddies"?

In my opinion there are not a lot of people who are more qualified to respond to a question about Letterhead meets than Jay.
 

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Posted by Jay Allen (Member # 195) on :
 

quote:

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Seems to me..and maybe it IS ONLY ME ...That Jay and all of his buddies only appear here when a question of the costs of a meet appear.

THIS has happened before. Jay ONLY posts about meet cost questions.

Does he EVER answer newbie questions???

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