Dont put it over vinyl that you recently applied!! It wrinkles it up!
Don't put it on enamel that hasn't FULLY cured even though its dry, it wrinkles it up
I'm done with this sh*t untill I have time to test it. maybe when I retire
Any body want to buy the remainder off me, I have a full gallon and an opened gallon
as far as my week goes this stuff cost me more, than it would have saved me
@#$!*#& Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
interesting tidbit,
We pulled the vinyl off after waiting for the pelucid to cure to the consistancey of a thick vinyl, then cut around the shape.
But when we pulled off the vinyl it came right off like it had heat on it, one piece pulled it off with 2 fingers, simply amazing!
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Send it to me Bob ! Posted by Robert Thomas (Member # 1356) on :
Strange, I just used the stuff over vinyl and Krylon paint and it worked beautifully. Layed down like I sprayed it. I've also used it over oil based paints with good results. Never had a problem going over vinyl.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Rob,
You know i've never had problems up to this point either, It's so freaking humid up here, that must have something to do with it. Also my theory is that any time a paint wrinkles is that it is drying and shrinking fast than the coat underneath.
So be it that most vinyl doesn't bond 100% right off the bat I am assuming at this point that the vinyl wasn't fully bonded, the pelucid was most likely curing at an accelerated rate, thus pulling the vinyl off the MDO.
The vinyl that was not applied this morning was fine.
Joey if your going to Mars then I'll bring it.
I think the ups on this stuff would be a bit
[ August 14, 2002, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :
Bob,
The same thing happened to me...and I posted a warning about it two weeks ago. I hoped I could save some one...namely you...from doing what I did.
I got a lot of flack for trying to help someone else avoid a problem!
I lettered 2 8x8 signs, used 100%acrylic latex paint as the background coat, laid vinyl down, then clearcoated with water base poly urethane enamel. Everything was fine.
Then as soon as I top coated with Pelucid, it wrinkeled the clear coat over the vinyl, but not the rest of the sign. THAT LOOKED SO FREAKING WEIRD. I had to immediately spray Rapid Remover on the sign and scrap off EVERYTHING!
Oh well, sorry you didn't see my post....hahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahahahah
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
the Pelucid isn't the problem,it's far from garbage in fact it's one of the better products of its type you can find. Pelucid is a moisture cured isocyanate,which it says on the label...this makes it no different than using a catalyzed,2-part clear,only diff here is that the moisture in the air and running water over as the label says is your 2nd part. Just b/c you don't physically mix a catalyst into the product doesn't mean you shouldn't treat it the same way. Bob,sounds like you have too much on too fast as far as coats go and the tail end solvents in the pelucid penetrated the vinyl and attacked the adhesive,just like you suggested. Maybe you rolled or brushed it on instead of spraying? that would be my guess...wasn't implying that you were dumping the stuff on in bucketfuls but film thickness has everything to do with how the stuff cures/how the solvents evaporate. The vinyl is porous enuff so that what goes down must come up and it will allow the solvents to bounce back upward and soften the vinyl and the pelucid over the vinyl. Anytime you use an isocyanate/solvent based product like that over an oil based/alkyd/non catalyzed product you're taking a risk despite of how long some people here will tell you they've been doing it. Remember,compared to lettering enamels or latex its an extremely "hot" product.
Dave Draper....you caught a load of comments because you made a 100% user error.....b4 you get upset,you didn't read the directions,plain and simple,you just assumed you had a waterbased product. Latex= water base,Water based urethane+water based,pelucid= isocyanate/solvent based...water+water=good,water+water+solvent=bad Water based urethane is an extremely weak urethane by nature and no way is it going to stand up to an isocyanate based urethane. If you ever have any doubts about how to use a product,every label has a 1-800 technical services line on the label and they will be more than glad to help you. You may think this sounds harsh,or that you got some comments from people,but consider the responses you would have gotten if under your name it said "Right Now Signs" or some franchise....Satan would have been a more popular guy and you know as well i do you would have been right there to get your 'quicky sticky' digs in. Remember Dave,you occupy a position in this industry others here don't...you write for a national magazine...the implication there is that you have a knowledge/level of professionalism/experience that others don't....so when they read how you were trying to pin down the edges of the vinyl with a clear,then slapped so much on top it wrinkled up,or just found out after 30yrs in biz cutting pressure treated wood was bad.....thats why they give you a hard time.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Gavin,
I beleive you hit the nail on the head.
I did apply liberally, with a brush, I do not have the best spray set up for bigger signs, and I found that the more you work pelucid with a brush it will remove foils from edge prints.
So to eliminate the working of the pelucid and to obtain a glossy finish I have applied the pelucid kinda heavy and one stoke.
Dave I did read your post and though our failures have similar characteristics, the materials and steps leading up to the failure are different. Not to mention I have used these same materials and methods on a previous sign for this customer with positive results. So I didnt see any reason why I couldn't recreate that success.
More testing is needed, the funny thing is there are so many variables to come into play here. I'm sure the high humidity had a part in it as well.
[ August 14, 2002, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
Gavin has the answer. I haven't worked with Pelucid but have cleared over a ton of One Shot and a lot of vinyl with urethanes. It's not impossible but it's not easy either. There are two sure fire ways almost guaranteed to screw it up.
#1. Apply the urethane too heavily ( the first few coats HAVE to be misted on )
#2. Clear over vinyl/One Shot that has been applied to a non-urethane surface.
Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :
Gavin,
You mean to tell me they put instructions on those cans of Plucid? Oh My God!
Well, us artist types never have time to read instructions!
Seriously, your explaination was very "clear" and informative....glad we have "techheads" like you around to guide us!
But, one thing you said isn't making sense. The pluecid may be "hotter" than the poly urethane clear but it (plucid) didn't wrinkle the poly urethane coat over the latex paint. It only wrinkled the poly urethane paint over the VINYL.
My conculsion is that the poly urethane coat over the vinyl wasn't cured, or never would cure, or just doesn't like vinyl. I don't have the answer here. I'm sure you do though!
Now, let's "clear" coat one other thing up...I may write for a national sign magazine, in which those articles deal with hands on creativity in areas that I an expert at. I have never written an article about the "technical" side of any product....its not my area of expertise. Sorry to burst anybody's bubbles here, but no writer knows EVERYTHING. I'm not frightened to jump right in there are screw up till I get it figured out and I love to share the experience, good or bad. Some people call that stupid... I call it honesty.
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
Dave by saying "hotter" it means that pelucid or other isocyanate based products contain much stronger solvents etc than water based,latex,alkyd enamels etc which will eat into the weaker products...just b/c it says urethane on the label doesnt mean that it's just as strong as catalyzed or solvent based ones. May not even have that high a % of urethane component to it,alotta times they stick in the min amt they need to for label claims and thats it.
Posted by Robert Thomas (Member # 1356) on :
If you can't spray Pelucid then the best way to apply it is to ROLL it on with a foam roller, then QUICKLY lay it off with a brush. Avoid overrolling of overbrushing. It lays down real well by itself. It is a rather hot product. It is NOT waterbased like a latex paint. Thin and clean-up with xylene. Humidity will accelerate drying times.
Posted by Mikes Mischeif (Member # 1744) on :
What exactly is the purpose of this stuff? Your vinyl not glossy enough? Edges peeling up? What is this "plucid" of which you speak?
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Mike,
I'll tell you what I am using it for, protection from road debris, Uv damage and a deterrant from vandels.
It is a clear coat that is supposed to dry rock hard. I have used it only twice so far and I will say it appears to be all I want it to be, Except easy to work with lol
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