anyone know the details of their website not being up?
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Something got screwwed up. Gary is working on it.
Posted by Scott Pagan (Member # 2507) on :
thanks glenn, i was having a printhead problem with our Edge 1. seems a small fade out area running horiz. with the printing direction. not noticable on spot color logos, but really apparent on 4-color jobs. any ideas what to troubleshoot?
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Scott,
Your description has me a bit confused. Can you go into more detail for me please. I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to tell me.
Posted by Scott Pagan (Member # 2507) on :
i downloaded a test file from the 4edgetalk forum last week to see what may be going on. it's mainly a spot color (cobalt) screened back (40% ?). when i print it out i get a dark and light streak approx. where the registration bullseye is that will continue on throughout the print. it is not apparent when printing solid spot color fills, only 4-color process or halftones. could it be a heat setting? i'm afraid the heads could be misfiring (or however they operate) and causing this unwanted pattern to appear. it is not a definite pattern only a lighter print right in the center. think if you had a print with the (QP) info and the bullseye on the right looking at the printed sheet, and then to smear the area around the bullseye straight across the image. that may sound wacky but it's about the best way to describe it. i could scan the print file, but it may not show up on the screen. thanks for looking into this with me.
Posted by Joe House (Member # 3110) on :
Scott, Try this: Make a box 11.8" high x 12" long. Fill with a linear fade left to right from 0% to 100% fill. Does the faded area still show up? It sounds as if the printhead may need to be replaced soon. I'm assuming that you've already cleaned the printhead. By the way, I always do these kind of printhead tests with Gerber 220 or 225 and a Gerber cartridge. That eliminates any possible finger pointing.
Good Luck,
Joe
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
As Joe said, create a box 11.8" tall and about 18 to 24" long. But, give it a 50% fill with a 70.7 LPI.
Print it with Colbalt Blue foil in white vinyl.
If you see any horizontal streaks, commonly referred to as "Tire Tracks", chances are pretty good that the printhead is worn.
The print should look something like this if the printhead is worn.....
If it is, you need to contact Gerber tech. They will probably want you to send the print.
Be sure to contact your Gerber distributor's tech department as well. They may have a loaner program that you can participate in.
I hope this helps.
[ July 15, 2002, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
Posted by Scott Pagan (Member # 2507) on :
that's what it looks like! i guess we'll be replacing the printhead. is it painful? will i need to send the entire unit in? how much dinero to correct? thanks for everyone's input.
looks like 4edge is getting back up, still having problems but being reassembled.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Scott,
It depends on whether or not your system is under warranty. If it is, then it won't cost you anything except perhaps the cost of shipping to them. If it isn't under warranty, expect to pay around $2000usd plus the cost of shipping.
Yes, you will need to send the entire unit to Gerber. Make sure you have the original boxes and the clamp-do-hickeys which are used to prevent the printhead from being jossled during shipping.
Posted by Scott Pagan (Member # 2507) on :
i spoke to the distributor for our equipment. no warrenty, no service contract. the Edge printer has given us over 4 years of excellent printing, so we'll get it fixed and go from there.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Scott,
I can't remember for certain, but I think there is a sequence you can punch in that will tell you how many linear inches have been run through your Edge. You might want to contact your tech and ask him how to do it. It would be fun to find out how many yards of foil you've run through. Posted by Diane Crowther (Member # 120) on :
I think it's one of the items in the SETUP menu - i.e. PRINT MIN which gives you the number of minutes of operation. Yards of material might be hard to keep track of because the same yard of material can go through multiple times, not just because of colours/job, but because sometimes one job may be sent as several files and the Edge wouldn't know it was the same material going through.
I'd like confirmation on that, though, because my number of minutes seems awfully low. Do the technicians reset that when they put in a new print head?
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I think number of yards of any material would be more significant information anyway. If one did 10,000 yards of single color print & another did 10,000 yards of 4 color print, wouldn't we want to see the higher totals to reflect the print heads actual work?
Posted by Diane Crowther (Member # 120) on :
You're right, Doug. That would be the number of yards the printhead had covered and would be valuable from that standpoint. As long as we know it's "yards travelled" and not "yards purchased", then it is good information.
However...what if you only have a 1" splotch of red on a 2-yard print? (We had a whole bunch of "you are here" maps like that.) The printhead is really only being used for 1", so even measuring yards of material isn't that accurate for printhead use. If you do a lot of process colour, then yards travelled is probably more accurate than if you do an abundance of spot colour work.
Nothing's ever cut 'n dried is it?
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Good point Diane, & probably why the counting of minutes may be better then yards or inches anyway, since this would most likely reflect actual printhead work. Given that the inches of each foils use is determined by the software, it would seem that on your maps, only the printed inch would be counted.
No, it never is cut & dry. Since inch per minute speeds vary I guess length of material is not as important as minutes anyway on life expectancy of the head.
Posted by Bob Gilliland (Member # 28) on :
Diane,
The entire head is being “used” whether a print is .001” or 11.800”; actual “pixel” firing is a different matter. Clamping pressure is applied across the entire media for printing purposes and therefore subjecting the head to “wear” issues. Pixel blowout or fatigue is a related but separate issue.
Maybe a field tech or one of the cubical clan members will respond within this thread with some solid information.
***
Just throwing this out there….. move your “prints” around. Play with the preposition settings so that the “0” point of the head isn’t always the “0” point of the job. When doing field test prints at various shops, I often appear as a magician when I inform them what there software preference is set at without looking at the software. Most people will use either the standard “0,0” setting while a few others will use the “Center on Vinyl” option. If you always use one of those settings an never move your prints around, I feel confident in stating that I know what/where your “tire tracks” are going to look like when doing a field test print.
Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
Can ya believe that I have nothing to add on this subject?!?!
Just popping in to say hi to my EDGEhead friends.
Posted by Scott Pagan (Member # 2507) on :
double check the math... 30815 minutes run on printer, x 20in/min. =616300in. run /12in = 51358ft /3 = 17119yrds / 50yrd rolls = 342 50 yrd rolls. how's that for printhead life? better yet, i can still print non-halftone images with no noticable printhead problems. is this typical?
Posted by Scott Pagan (Member # 2507) on :
no takers on the math test? i'm curious if this sounds right to anyone who's had to replace a printhead on their Edge 1.
Posted by Diane Crowther (Member # 120) on :
I don't know what the minutes operated were when we needed a new head, but it wasn't anywhere near that I'm sure. In fact it was barely past the warranty period. With ours, a pixel was shot, so we couldn't print anything.
Posted by Bob Gilliland (Member # 28) on :
Scott,
You asking if 342 50yd rolls is ok for print head life or are you asking if 30,815 minutes in a four year time period for print head life good?
I don’t have enough information available to give any solid feedback on the first part. Maybe someone direct from Gerber or a Gerber rep can offer up some valid details. Some information that may be helpful for them to know is the serial number for the machine and revision number on the head. Please keep in mind that some of the information you are seeking may be considered “privileged” and not for public consumption.
As for the later part, that equals out to about 64 days of run time based on an 8 hour day. Is that good for a four year time period? Guess that depends on how much “billable” came out of the machine. If someone generated receivables of $500,000 in those 30,815 minutes over a 12 month time period and then needs to replace the head, is that person better off or worse compared to someone that does it over a 48 month time period? I believe that it is an individual shop-by-shop assessment as each has its own influencing factors.
If you read Glenn’s post here or at the other sites, you know he would like to be replacing heads every nine months as opposed to ever 48 months in its current configuration. I don’t do near the volume as Glenn and would not be a happy person replacing the head on my machine every nine months. (unless my volume increased that is)
And yes, when a head starts to fatigue, production does not always grind to a halt. That is why the head problem can be manifesting itself without the user knowing about it until a certain print needs to be produced, its not apparent on everything. I recommend doing a test print once a month and retaining them in a binder. Recording the amount of run time for that month may also be some useful information to record on the print. Do a search over at the other site using the key words “Print Head Failing” with me, Bob Gilliland, as the author for some additional information and files.
Posted by Scott Pagan (Member # 2507) on :
thanks Bob, that kinda summed up what i was looking for. our Edge machine is not a large part of our buisness. we mainly do large format Scotchprint electrostatic printing (we were one of the first five sites working with 3M from the beginning) and large run vinyl cutting. the Edge became a nessesary printer to quickly turn around small to medium size jobs on a minutes notice. after using it for some time, the shop has found it is a very versitile and reliable machine. my main question was if the life of the head was typical. some say 9mos. others 2yrs. since we had minutes run on the printhead, i wanted to compare that to the minutes run on other failed printheads. like you had mentioned, it may be information Gerber would like to keep close to their vests. i've sent out print tests to the tech support and have yet to hear from them.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Scott,
Time has little to do with how long a printhead should last. It really has to do with how many feet of material you've run and how well you've kept the printhead clean.
Like Bob said, I am currently averaging about 9 months on a printhead. But, I run my machine a lot. When others brag about how long their printhead has lasted (say 3 or 4 years), the first thing that pops in my head is "gee, they must not use it much." Its not a slap at them, but rather just my perspective on things.
I love it when my Edge wears out. It means I've produced a lot of money with it.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)