Had a call today about lettering 8' X 16' signs for a local college baseball field. The boards are 1/2" MDO and the signman who has been coating out and hand lettering them says he has been using One Shot bullentin color. My client says they are peeling in less than a year. Has One Shot bullentin gotten that bad? I have been using white 101 One Shot Bullentin Colors for all my white backgrounds and I haven't noticed any failure like the college is experiencing. I will look at the boards one day this week. I lettered one of the boards on the field for a regular customer about 2 years ago with premium metalic gold vinyl and it has held up well.My client coated out the boards with 4 coats of a water based paint.(not sure what type of paint he used) I wondered how the background paint would hold up since it was sprinkling when I applied the vinyl and I noticed lighter green spots where the rain hit the background. Any suggestions for a paint that has at least a 2 year life for the background? I am thinking of using intermediate 5 year life vinyl for the lettering or hand lettering with One Shot Lettering enamel. Lot of sign people around here have been using Porter Paints Advantage 900 high gloss 100% acrylic paint for backgrounds. Here in south Georgia, we have high humidity and intense heat during the summer. Thanks, Judy
[ June 24, 2002, 08:22 PM: Message edited by: Judy Pate ]
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Hey Judy, Preparation is everything, if its done correctly without cutting corners, it lasts, if not, it don't!
Posted by Judy Pate (Member # 237) on :
Joey, I certainly agree that preparation is the key. I will inspect the boards this week..should be able to tell more about the problem then. Thanks, Judy
Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
On MDO I use one coat of latex primer and two or three coats of Benjamin Moore Impervo paint. Lettering with OneShot or vinyl. Never had any trouble with it. Good luck Posted by timi NC (Member # 576) on :
Judy on ball field signs it may be a prior ad peeling. From my experience the paint isn't any better than the layer it's painted over and it is common practice at ball fields to paint over existing ads two or three times before the panels are replaced. These ads get hit by baseballs also. As this is how most local ballparks raise funds the ads change from year to year so ya never know whats painted on top of what.If the panels are new it could be a case of bad prep/no primer/paint too thick/and or thin.I dont' think one shot has changed any formula's that drastically in the past year. You can take the finest of paint and if you don't apply it properly the end result may very well be the cause of the problem the atheletic facility is finding. Did you ask what and or how they are paying the painter? Alot of the contracts I've seen for ballfields don't include ample funds for much more than one quick coat of paint on top of whats already there. I was asked to bid a ballfield in one southern town and they freaked when they heard my rates,saying well ol' Jess' does those 8'x16's for $75 each,.... I asked why they didn't call ol' Jess' instead of me,... seems tha guy had expired,...hopefully not from starvation,...
[ June 25, 2002, 12:06 AM: Message edited by: timi NC ]
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
judy get em to spring for new sheets of white alum...and you paint em at home and then putem over top that old sh**! tell it will cost as much for new alum as it will for you to repaint those old boards....and yours will look better and last longer!!!!! my freind does a lot of this stuff for PEPSI their scoreboards and stuff...and they always try to "cheap it".
Posted by VICTORGEORGIOU (Member # 474) on :
Judy, how is the back of the wood prepared? If it is unsealed, or if the edges are unsealed, the water attacks from the back. A good primer coat on the back and edges sealed up is usually sufficient.
Also, when paint lifts, sometimes you can look at the bad spot and figure out the problem. Did the paint completely lift and leave the wood clean? Primer failure or inadequate primer. Did the new paint lift leaving the old paint? Preparation inadequate. And so on. All modern paints hold up well when used according to instructions. Some people swear by oil based paints, but I prefer water based because I think they breath better and are therefore a little more tolerant of moisture problems. But that is just an opinion.
Vic G
Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :
I agree with OP about re-sheeting the signs.
The time and effort preparing and repainting old sign boards is very often more expensive than new metal sheets done in your workshop.
We have a metal sheet available here pre=primed and coated in baked white enamel. an 8ft x 4ft sheet costs me about 1/2 what the labour and paint is worth to restore an old one.
I also do a lot of 8x4 "black board" specials on a weekly basis for a Supermarket. I "black" them out every week with black waterbased acrylic paint and use fluro poster paint to write the prices etc on them. Obviously as the paint builds up over the weeks, the surface gets to rough to write on at speeed. Therefore, rather than try cleaning off 50 plus layers of paint I just screw an old used 8x4 over the top and start again. When that gets to rough it is flipped over to use the other side .. then discarded and a new "old" sign set used
The 2 hours a week I spend doing these four "blackboards" brings in over $8000 a year!
Posted by Chris Lovelady (Member # 2540) on :
Hey Judy!
well i try to never mix water based and oil based paints....for instance oil based primer,oil based finish coat. seal the edges with a paintable culking before painting (it stayes flexable). oh and sand the MDO before painting..causes a tooth.
good luck! the old signs would be awsome to use as a base to screw a Aluminum panel to..it doen't peal, or rust!
chris
Posted by Judy Pate (Member # 237) on :
Thanks for all your replies. Well...I looked at the boards today. Victor, the paint and primer completely lifted leaving the bare MDO paper overlay clean,but in a few places I can see primer. Jon using aluminum sheets was one of my first suggestions. I was thinking if I use vinyl to letter one side then when the sponsor or their logo changes I could just turn them over and reletter the other side as you suggested. The signs are three sizes- 8' X 10', 8' X 12', and 8' X 20'. But they are thinking about painting all the MDO dark green and then adding the sponsors and leaving a foot of green background on all around. I talked to my paint store and he told me that the minor league field here at Paul Eames Park used a 100 % acrylic paint called DTM (Direct To Metal) without any primer. He assured me that lettering with One Shot over DTM would be no problem. Any of you familar with DTM and ever used DTM without primer? Timi, I can tell some of the peeling spots started from where a baseball hit them or something else scraped the boards. I did find evidence of the prior layer of paint peeling also. I didn't ask what they were paying the signman to paint these signs,timi, but I do know he is known for being cheap. The atheletic director/coach is wanting to paint the background all green if he gets approval from the higher ups. So he will have the hardest job. Thanks for all the good advice! Looking forward to your replies concerning DTM. Judy
Posted by Jean Shimp (Member # 198) on :
What about using 10 mil corrugated plastic? It's only $20 for a 4x8 and around here they attach them to the chain link fence with cable ties. I don't think you can find a cheaper substrate that will last a year.
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