Does it seem that with all the modern inventions and advances of the day that we become lazier and lazier? Back in the "all paint day" it's true, shop's kept to themselves, there work was there own and they didn't ask for help outside there shop doors. But this also made you work harder and develop your skills. Never heard of somebody askin' another signpainter to come to his shop to letter something for him because he didn't have the artwork or the skill to produce it. You couldn't just pass a brush around and have it do your work.
Dave
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Yup! Them was the bad "good ol' days" !
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
yep yep yep! Those were the dayzzzz. I have often said that I wish the computer and plotters were never invented. I know that sounds harsh. But alot of times I really mean it........... !
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
I dunno about "lazier and lazier"...I have been workin my butt off fer the last 10 days. (And I mean WORKING MY BUTT OFF!!!!) Didn't ask anyone fer artwork...BOUGHT my Edge prints from a REALLY good guy..ALSO hired a friend to help with a $10,000 contract..that helped him AND me..(He GOT paid and I will in a couple of days!!!)
Oh yeah!!! I fergot!! I never asked anyone to design, cut, weed, premask or apply the stuff!!! Except for the friend that I hired AND paid to help apply!!!!
WHAT IS YER POINT DAVID???? LOL LOL...
You paint folks are just too much!!!!!
And YES I did NET NET NET about $4000 this week!!! NO LIES!
Doesn't happen every week, obviously, but it can happen to an un-talented vinyl jockey who doesn't use a freakin brush!!!!!
I guess using a brush is some special thing that brings instant gratification???
Or does it really mean yer too good to ask for advice????
I am sure you are a fine fellow David..but yer question just ****es me off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Mark Fuller (Member # 2128) on :
Dave
As much as you have helped me and countless others on this board, I know what David K. is talking about.
Like others, I spent years learning my "craft" and am just as ****ed of at the vinyl trade as some people.
"You paint people are too much"
Wow... I don't know how to respond. My brain ( the little I have left is going faster than I can type ). Like music, in the "old daze" my style was my money maker. When people saw me paint or draw they knew it was not every day stuff and I could command big bucks. Now people say "how much?, why, you just push a button on a computer don't ya".
I know this sounds like another Paint verses Vinyl thing but not really. I am back in business after 4 years off and cannot beleive how cheap our craft has become. I am getting better at marketing and promotion to offset the deluge of guys with cutters so I can compete.
Yes painting gives me gratification, I don't "feel" the vinyl.
I think I will go buy a hammer and become a master carpenter:)
Mark
Posted by John Thompson (Member # 2750) on :
What is happening in signs, to me is similar to what has happened in Drafting. I piddled around with drafting in high school oblivious to computers or CAD. I know a lot of guys probably had years of pencil, calculator and ruler experience but as computers evolved, they had to learn new and more efficient ways to do that trade or guys who did could do it cheaper and faster but not necessarily better.
Posted by Jacki Allen (Member # 2672) on :
I envy those who can paint, and I can understand why its so personal to them the way the sign trade has gone over the years. It used to be only an elite few who could create beautiful signage
To put this in perspective tho, the computer can be another artistic medium. I can't draw a stick person on paper, but using the drawing tools on my computer, I feel I can do some pretty interesting things and I consider what I do a form of art.
The downside of the availability of the technology, is that it has driven prices down and let in a whole lot of ppl that have no other ability than being able to type and plot, which is frustrating in that customers have to continually be re-educated on why there is such a big difference in pricing between the artistic and those who can type. And sometimes, you have to accept that they just wont pick up on the learning curve and either give them the typed sign or send them down the road.
Some of the best work I've seen comes from those who can paint adopting technology in and combining the two artforms. On the same token, a friend of mine who manages a bunch of CAD ppl says that his best ppl tend to be those who used to do it with pencil and paper.
My own solution to the fact that I cant paint...I've found an artist that I work with on jobs that are beyond my ability to do on my own. There are just somethings that vinyl cant do justice to and a good vinyl jockey needs to be able to tell the difference.
Just my 2 cents
Posted by David Kilgore (Member # 110) on :
It's not a paint verses vinyl thing, I do both, if it could be different I would definately do only paint but you can't be in this business and not offer both.
It's more of a changing our whole way of life all through out our society, all the modern high tech ways of doing things I think really do tend to make you too dependent on others which can make you lazy, emphasis on can. I'm not to good at putting ideas into words I hope this makes some sence. There are alot of old ideas that shouldn't be forgotten.
Dave
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
In the past and the present, I've always taken time out to help others in their quest whether signmakers or pinstripers. I always thought that it was more of where you were located in this country that dictated how others would treat you when you popped in to their shop, unannounced. Sign painters always treated me with respect, once they found out what I did. Being a youngster way back, never swayed me from stopping by any sign painter wherever I was and this thing which some believe took place where one did not speak to another must have taken place far from the east coast. In the 70's I moved to Florida where I met pinstripe legend Don Ives, and soon after we met became best friends and would trade information as if we knew each other all our lives and share work we couldn't get to during our busy days.
It was only when I moved further west that persons would shun me as if they knew what their town we become after I moved in.
These days aren't really that different for me and living in Oregon proves this. There have always been helpful and hindering persons in this craft since day 1, as if their work was something out of the ordinary.
As far as being lazy because of technology, I guess its all up to those who aren't as happy with their work to begin with and believe that computers and plotters can plumett them not only into the 21st century but into bigger and better profits. I've seen more then a few in this craft spend more cash buying technology when they were making big money the ol'fashioned way, then getting out of shape when more and more infiltrated this craft. These days just about everyone can cut and paste or can make signage and yet not everyone could make enough money to make them happy. How much money does it take to run a profitable sign or graphic shop these days and still care to do it correctly? My insight tells me, about $200. in tools and materials can make me twenty times that without all the hoopla.
And I still visit those who haven't the technology at their finger tips.
Posted by Mark Yearwood (Member # 2723) on :
These days it's good to know how to paint and use a 'puter. I've been in this biz 20 years now and learned to run a pencil and brush first, then a computer. I have learned that it's a tool to speed up things (cutting masks, doing layouts etc.) and cut all that boring copy I hate to paint so I can use my time being more creative.
I will cut some stickies fast for the guy who wants just that and then go back to work on the custom airbrush job or 3D sign foam sign, making money on both. In the end, both clients are happy and I'm happy.
We all have things we don't like to do. For me, cutting and weeding tons of 1" vinyl is not fun. I'd rather be striping a Harley or doing gold leaf, but it makes the shop money and pays the bills. After all...this is a BUSINESS.
Use the brush...Use the computer...but most of all, Use good design and layout skills and give the client something that sets your work apart from the novice.
Mark
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Mark, I agree but at the same time can tell you that I hate striping Harleys or any motorcycle for that matter. Most Harley owners are pains in the as- and it just ain't worth the trouble to me.
I specialize in one subject, the subject of less hassle and mo'money. Once in a while I will do signage, without installation or doing backgrounds. I'm only into it for the money and design, nothing else. The simpler the project, the better I like it, design come natural to me.
I don't ever want to weed anything cept'n maybe smokin some! Installations of anything takes time away from my personal world. How much money does anyone ever really need dictates how much one will put up with all the BS. My only thing is to do as perfect of striping as I possibly can do. I've done car collections and dealerships and can't see why so many tools are needed when one cannot perfect just one of the things they chose as a business. A simple job to me is a double line down the sides, 45 minutes later, I could be eating lobster.
BTW, I do have an attitude adjuster which will be registered shortly, my pet 11 second street car and daily driver, you're never too old to be a kid at heart. I truly believe in perfection, not production and as my customers will attest,I haven't a problem in that area.
HAVE A NICE DAY Posted by David Kilgore (Member # 110) on :
Not all Harley riders are that way most are pretty good people, like me. Riding our harley (my wife and I)is our hobby when we're not working, it's a great relaxer.
Dave
Posted by Mark Yearwood (Member # 2723) on :
Joey, I have a friend next door that builds custom bikes so most of the Harleys are for him. Works out pretty good. I'm in a small rural town in west Oklahoma so I have to do a variety of work. I would love to pinstripe and do graphics on cars all the time, but there's just not as big of a custom market here. I have to be a man of many talents but I like the variety.
I may be aibrushing one day and putting decals on a John Deere the next.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
I rode a few Harleys for probably 40 years and have striped just as many show bikes in the past, but as I enter my golden years, all that seems to interest me is the gold and not the BS. I was the exclusive striper and paint designer for " Mal Ross World Class Custom motorcycles " winner of the Rats Hole Daytona show more then 5 times. I've striped in Laconia in the late 50's and Daytona in the 70's and 80's. These days I just do cars and trucks whether stock or custom, for personal use by their owners and its quick money.
I live in Biker Heaven in Southern Oregon, there are more older bikers here, who may have been club oriented then anywhere else and there are many runs within riding distance from here, but I have no interest in them.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
!