Bob Burns & Micheal Boone brouht up an interesting point in an earier post, stating that they never give out estimates over the phone.
What is your take on this? Do you give estimates over the phone? Why not?
I'm not real fond of it, but have landed jobs this way. Quite a few just recently.
Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
PEOPLE WHO CALL FOR ESTIMATES ARE LOOKING FOR THE CHEAPEST QUOTE. SINCE I AINT THE CHEAPEST, THEY'RE WASTING THEIR TIME AND MINE!
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
EXACTLY!!!! Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
had one this evening....caller said so and so told him i did signs....ok...whata ya want?(supper time) well i need a price on letterin my boat...ok....how big is this boat....30 footer...ok, transome lettering one color is between $75-150....is the boat in the water...yep and it out at xxxx marina(i have to travel, boats in the water,)he say its got a dive platform, and this guy told me you was reasonable...$75-150, it only a bout 4 foot long for the name....well i am reasonable, and i gota come there, letter the boat from a dive platform, and you want me to do it for less? and you want it this weekend right?...well was hopin you could do it tomarrow or sat....ok let me call you back next wed or thur and let me get out to take a look at it..ok? ok....yea right...i wont return that call!!!!!!!
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
OK you old geezers......what do you do??? What if you got a real nice sounding lady asking for a price on a sandblasted gold leafed double sided sign. How would you handle that? Just curious how you handle your calls requesting a price. I like to give a price 'range'. I tell them the price for a simple sign....then tell them the price goes up with design fees and more complex designs. I then ask them when we can get together to talk more. You can usually 'feel out' your callers and can tell real quick if they are just price shopping.
[ May 23, 2002, 11:48 PM: Message edited by: cheryl nordby ]
Posted by Robert Thomas (Member # 1356) on :
I don't think everybody is looking for the cheapest price. I certainly am not the cheapest.
They are also looking for knowledge, getting it done in their time frame, maybe most of all someone that is pleasant to deal with and understand their needs.
We have all dealt with buisnesses that turned us off in some way. Arrogant salespeople, rude receptionist, missed deadlines.
Customer service is also a consideration to many buisness people.
We as providers of a service or product; signs, pinstripping, artwork, web design, finishes, etc. need to treat our customers as we wish to be treated.
Have you ever called around to companies looking for an estimate for something? What if 3M or Gregory stated that they do not give out prices over the phone. Too many tire kickers!
You have to see this from the customers perspective. Many have seldom or never dealt with a sign shop.
My take on siuation.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
"Similar jobs usually run around $XXX amount to $XXX amount, but if you can stop by sometime we can discuss your needs and work with your budget."
Tire kickers say "OK" and hang up, serious callers make an appointment to stop in.
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Robert....3M vinyl and other supplies are stock items with a price sheet! When someone calls for a price on a sign, unless you are a quickie Stickie Shop, it is all custom work! there are no set prices on custom signs! Unless a customer is very spicific, there is no way to give an accurate price over the phone!
I am not going to waste my time on price shoppers!
Posted by david drane (Member # 507) on :
Cheryl and Mike have the same approach that I use. I don't see any problem wirh feeling things out a bit and by the same token I get away pretty quick if they make noises about wantin CHEAP!!
Posted by Del Badry (Member # 114) on :
I like Robert's ideas.... i also agree with si that ya dont want to waste time on tire kickers but you never know,,, no sense pi**ing someone off with an elitist attitude....
Pretty much 100% of my flat glass tinting jobs start out as estimate calls..
Posted by Kathy Joiner (Member # 1814) on :
I like cheryl's approach and Rob's thoughts. Sometimes folks do business with you just because they like you better than the other guy.
I live about 8 miles out of town, so I give a ball park figure. Almost everyone shops, I do. If they are looking for a cheap sign I say things like, "You can get that in town, if you drive out here you get a cup of coffee and a consultation. Your sign works for you, do you want some clown standing out front bringing customers in? If your sign is bad that's what you have. I've had a lot of luck telling them that I would rather build them an image than just a sign.
Phone estimates take a lot of time, but they bring in jobs. If you have to give a generic price, then dazzle them with something irresistable when they come in to consult. Ever go into a store for the "sale" item only to find yourself spending more for the better quality item next to it? We're signmakers but we are also business people and have to deal with the business end too.
Posted by Steve Purcell (Member # 1140) on :
I'll give a quick, ballpark price for standard fare; 18x24's etc. But the moment it goes toward custom, I decline to quote.
I pulled out of the yellow pages so that I wouldn't have to deal with so many low-renters and tire kickers. Seems to have worked.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Generally, I tell them "Prices start at..."
For anything specific, they'll need to come by the shop so we can sit down and go over it together. Some schedule an appointment, and some move on to the next sign shop on the list.
Posted by TransLab (Member # 470) on :
Absolutely ...
Most of my work comes from industrial customers; they can't issue a P.O. without a definite price. The buzzing of the fax usually follows up the phone call…. Music to my ears. I have developed a good relationship with most of the buyers, If a job is custom, and I can’t give an immediate exact quote, they’ll ask what is the most the job will cost, and issue the P.O. based on that amount, knowing that I will invoice the correct amount.
This said, I know the needs of the industrial customers, so it’s easy to give them pricing, I will give commercial customers a ballpark figure, stressing that it is only a ballpark.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
My approach Is if you can send,Hand deliver some artwork I can give them a solid price on the job.
Not knowing what they are thinking in terms of look,colours,styles or graphics. Then no over the phone pricing until we have in down on paper of the outcome.
Small simple projects (For Sale) yes Commercial signs NO!
Posted by timi NC (Member # 576) on :
I personally will use the initial phone call as sort of feeler to try and find out if the caller is tire kicking and or actually in serious search of a sign. If they come across as more than price shopping I usually tell them "I can do a ten dollar sign or a ten thousand dollar sign how much do you want to spend?"This is done humorously so as to break the ice to ask the next question as to the extent of their budget,and make an make an appointment to futher discuss their needs and try for a deposit.If it is for truck lettering and or a real estate 4x8 I have set base prices that usually scare off any price shoppers,usually get that silent pause then either a goodbye or a click.
[ May 24, 2002, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: timi NC ]
Posted by Tisha S Sullivan (Member # 2999) on :
Hi Robert, I've always had an aversion to giving quotes on the phone, but recently I've had the feeling that I'm discouraging potential customers if I don't give them some idea of what their job might cost. I've begun giving general pricing info depending on what they need. "I need my truck lettered." I tell them truck lettering begins @ $130.00 for a pair of doors, in one color. "I need a banner." I say that a high quality, 3x6 foot banner lettered with one color is around $125.00. In both cases,I tell them that once I know exactly what they need, I can give them a firm price for the work. Figure some basic starting prices for trucks, banners, magnetics etc. It may get them in the door and you never know from there.
Posted by ScooterX (Member # 2023) on :
simple answer: no.
long answer: i don't even give the price over the phone after i've measured and estimated the job -- only in person.
why? because it is very easy for a business person to have lots of other things going on while they're on the phone -- an employee is asking a question, a customer is trying to buy something, a baby is screaming... all while i'm trying to tell them why they "need" a $750 sign.
if its person-to-person, i have an 80% "hit" rate of selling the sign. over the phone, that drops to about 25%. maybe i could improve that be being better on the phone? so far, i've learned to use the phone to RECEIVE information only: how big, how soon, where is it, and what's it for?
no, i don't want to alienate any customers -- i don't "refuse" to give them a price -- instead i tell them that i'd prefer to look at their shop (or truck) and then I can give them an accurate price. What time is good for me to come by?
if i had a storefrong business (like a lot of francise shops) things might be different, but i'm selling personal attention and design -- i WANT to see their place of business before i bid on anything. i consider the "extra" time involved to be a cost of doing business. since i get 80% of the work i bid on, it is a worthwhile cost. (it takes me less time to visit somebody than it does to estimate four jobs hoping to get one of them).
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
I have never gotten a job priced over the phone...... I always tel them its impossible to price over the phone. I follow the 7 magic steps of marketing that say ..
Info call = appointment = first introduction (show up) = proposal = 2nd meeting for approval = contract extension (money) = renewal (more work). Sometimes i get a hit without these steps. but. i go with the percentages
Posted by John Martin Robson (Member # 1686) on :
as a rule NO........there are too many variables........Design, Materials, Size & Time/labour.
there are exceptions
I've had people ask me over the phone
"How much is a sign"
Here are some good answers.
1.....eh....wait a minute, what day is it. 2.....do you want a good one or a bad one. 3.....just a little more than the second one. 4.....hang on a sec....."honey, how much beer is in the fridge. 5.....sorry were all out,....could you call back tommorrow? 6.....8000.00 bucks 7.....I give up.......How much? 8.....the finger is free 9.....would you like fries with that? 10....that depends on your income dept service ratio.....now for instance if you earn a annual income of 80000.00 dollars, your dept services ratio can't exceed 40% of your combined annual gross household income......blah, blah blah.........are you still with me.
I'm sure there are more.
[ May 25, 2002, 03:05 AM: Message edited by: John Martin Robson ]
Posted by Linda Silver Eagle (Member # 274) on :
If you could state #7 followed very closely by #5, you'd have my favorite!
7.....I give up.......How much? 5.....sorry were all out,....could you call back tommorrow?
I tell them I don't do anything for $25. I tell them it takes me more than 2.5 minutes to produce it. That seems to blow off all the paying customers.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
But the true to this matter is.
Reverse the question to them.
Do me a favour! Call your Mechanic or Plumber and ask how much to do the repairs?
Knowing well that the answer will be I can't price it until I see what is involved!
Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
Price should always be the last thing you discuss with a customer or prospective customer.
I'm sure that not everyone here will agree with the "slant" of this article...but it seems appropriate to post a link to it here... ZEN. There was also a follow-up... ZEN-2.
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
Boy.. there's some attitude on this board.... anybody who would'nt take the advantage of a prospective customer may be losing out. How many great customers have I aquired over a simple telephone call... And NO! Everyone who calls are not just looking for the lowest price.. that's your chance on selling them quality.. and to tell them all about the advantages of dealing with you. We do this on a constant basis.. in a friendly intelligent manor. That's how we stay busy... all 7 of us.
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Neil...what you say is true, BUT, your ad is not at the top of the list! by the time they get to you, the price shoopers have been weeded out!
Change your name to AAA Signs1st and see what the difference is! Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
SI AND I ARE ON THE SAME TRACK! I DON'T WANT TO BE "BUSY", I WANT TO SMELL THE ROSES......BUT WHEN I DO GET WORK, IT'S ALL SEWED UP AND VERY PROFITABLE, AND DONE MY WAY! SO, YES, I LOSE A FEW, BUT WHAT I GET IS ALL GRAVY! ....AND DOING PHONE BIDDING IS USELESS FOR THE RESULTS I WANT.
[ May 25, 2002, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: Bob Burns ]
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
You OLD geezers are just a bunch of grumps Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
C'MON CHERYL...... IN THE LAST DAY OR SO, YOU'VE BEEN GRUMPIER THAN ALL OF US PUT TOGETHER! AND YOUR STILL YOUNG AND PERTIE! WHEN YOU HIT 60, YOU'LL BE JES LIKE US! HAHAHHaHAHA
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
Yeah....but I GET OVER IT! Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
Most of the time I want some pretty solid information about what is wanted before I will even consider a phone estimate. Even then, I will tell the customer that there has to be a "fudge factor" for unexpected additions, materials change, or whatever.
Since I don't run any form of advertising, other than the lettering on my truck, most potential customers find me by way of some type of referral.No sign out front, so walk-ins doesn't happen.
Grumpiness on the part of us old geezers. We worked for it, we earned it, and nobody is going to deprive us of it. It may not be a divine right, but it is close.
Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
HEY BILL...YOU GOT CLASS!!!!!
Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
Thanks, Bob B.----most of the time, I try. Every once in a while, though, the grumpiness kicks in. Usually feel like a damfool the next day.
Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
Neil is absolutely right! No, I also don't like a certain type of customer but there is no reason for any unprofessional response to their questions. I bet that if you call some of the folks here who have built really successful businesses you will never receive a smart **s answer on the phone just because you ask for a price. It is obvious that some prospective customers simply have not the least clue how things work in the signworld. And why should they? For me, having a small shop in a small town, reputation is everything.i It requires friendly service even in situations I don't like. Actually most answers here are right on, I think.
Posted by aaronssigns (Member # 490) on :
what i tell them right out of the gate that they are geting just that a "Estamate"!not a solid price or bid ... its a ballpark price if it has any kind of logo i have to see it first flat out! before i will give any prices and i can tell them 2 sec. after I see there artwork what it will take to do it...if they like my ballpark prices they will come on in or mail or fax me what they have to be done and only then will i sharpen up my pencel and give a solid price, and if they dont call back its no sweat ive allways got pleny of work to keep me going
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
Hi Si... This year it does'nt matter what you call yourself, you could be called AAAAAAAAAAA1SIGNS1ST. It still would'nt get you at the top of the list. The Yellow pages guys decided that this year, the ones with the biggest Ads, get to go first. So for some of you guys what you are saying may be correct for you...it's really how much you want or need to make not how much you want to work.
Posted by John Martin Robson (Member # 1686) on :
Come on Neil.....be straight with us......we all know there's no work in Newfoundland.
and why is there no work in Newfoundland?.......cause its all done. Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
That's right John... all the works done... now I'm going for a round of golf... Lol.
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