Somedays I get lots of chuckles over this BB. Other days I just see the same ole' $hit. Those who think they are so high up in the clouds sitting on their pedestal it is humorous in a whole different sort of sad way.
Do you remember casettes? Remember buying your albums and recording to your hearts content? Or borrowing a friends album and recording a couple songs. UH OH>>> did you copy those songs? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Do you remember loaning a neighbor your lawn mower when theirs was broken? Or how about mowing their lawn FOR them because they were getting old and having a hard time.UH OH>> did you get paid for your time? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Do you remember painting a picture and giving it as a gift just for the fun of giving? OOPS>> did you keep track of your time? And my O my..what if somebody copies it???? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ How about taking a friend out to lunch and picking up the tab because they were low on funds. we all aren't millionaires. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This whole clipart issue is crazy. Why not occasionally help? You can tell if somebody keeps wanting free stuff over and over....and eventually they will stop getting help. But we all need help once in awhile. Or do we just have our fences built so high in this neighborhood called Letterville, (so nobody can see our greatness), and we want to wallow in it all alone. well....I am off to do a ton more Coldwell commercial signs with their new logo that a friend sent to me. Nope ....I didn't pay him for it. And nope I am not going to charge my customer 300.00 for clean up. It was just a very nice gesture of my friend to send it to me. I could have cleaned up my scanned version. But why? The logo has already been made and cleaned up. Sure...sometimes ya just gotta. But other times not.
Have a happy day my friends. And I hope you make tons of money on all your sign jobs.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Cheryl,
That's my philosophy....you go girl.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I'm with you on this one Cheryl!
At risk of exposing my ignorance...who's Kenny?
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
AMEN!
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
I think Cartman killed him.
Posted by Jeffrey Vrstal (Member # 2271) on :
I'm in.
Posted by jimmy chatham (Member # 525) on :
this board helped me figure out why i am not rich. it is because i dont charge for everything i do. if my neighbors or friends needs some help i dont charge them. if a friend in the sign business needs a copy of a logo that i have i dont charge them.
when i was in the hospital with my first stroke a customer needed something in a hurry and carried it to the competetion. he did the sign and told them that i would bill them. he would not let me pay him for the sign or materials.
my neighbors hauled me around after my strokes because i could not drive. even carried me to some letterhead meets.
to me friends are more important than money.
so i will never be rich but i will never go hungry.
Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
This world is way too hard to get through alone. We all have to help each other out any way we can. It'll come back to you 10-fold. Sometimes it's the simplest things that we think are no big deal that will make a big diference in someone else's life.
That's just my Hallmark-card philosphy on life for the day.
[ April 30, 2002, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: Kimberly Zanetti ]
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
Jimmy you are rich.......In heart and soul, my friend. And no you will never go hungry.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Lets see how does that saying go now?
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for a liftime
It's all in how you percieve the help! and are you actually helping or hurting?
make ya think! doesn't it?
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Kimberly Zanetti and Bob Rochon, ... as usual, I'm with you two 100% on this one!
Janette
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
sorry Doug. Kenny was the one who had enough balls to post a picture on the portfolio page a couple months ago of his sign and asked what we thought of it. He really didn't get any positive feed back, but did receive lots of criticism. Kenny left. Where did Kenny go? And how many other Kennys have moved on? That is my only gripe about Letterville. Snobs and Egos.
Posted by Santo (Member # 411) on :
Cheryl, I think Kenny was a figment of someone's imagination. I also believe that several of the snobbish replies were just as fake. JMHO.
Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
CHERYL.... YOU AND I KNOW THAT YOU GOT IT RIGHT, DON'T WE!?
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Kenny could never leave because he was never here in the first place. There never was a real Kenny. He was someone's idea of a joke. An opportunity to have some fun with us all.
The joke came to an end after we called Kenny.
I do understand your point though Cheryl. There are times, some of us come off as being holier than thou. Our posts seem to lecture, rather than explain our points of view. Something we can all work on.
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
Thank you Steve. And I realize Kenny may have been a joke. But........how many real Kenny's and Kennyette's have we lost.
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
1 Kenny signing in here, where is Dagger Rat?
Posted by FranCisco Vargas (Member # 145) on :
Like anywhere you go, you have the good, the bad, and the ugly. Since I know you and a few others like yourself. I can honestly say you fall into the "good" category...you are a very giving person, Cheryl, thanks for knowing you. May you have a great day and a fabulous year to come!
Posted by jimmy chatham (Member # 525) on :
Hey Bob teach a man to fish and all he wants to do is sit in a boat with a rod and reel and drink beer all day. Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
I DON'T NEED TO KNOW HOW TO FISH TO SIT IN A BOAT (OR ANYWHERE ELSE) AND DRINK BEER!
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
See Bob, you already DO know how to fish!
Posted by Shane French (Member # 2098) on :
But God forbid you fish for a logo around here.
-shane
Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
I WOULDN'T GO THERE WITH A 10-FOOT (FISHIN)POLE!
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
quote:Originally posted by cheryl nordby: sorry Doug. Kenny was the one who had enough balls to post a picture on the portfolio page a couple months ago of his sign and asked what we thought of it. He really didn't get any positive feed back, but did receive lots of criticism. Kenny left. Where did Kenny go? And how many other Kennys have moved on? That is my only gripe about Letterville. Snobs and Egos.
OOPS! Nevermind, just read the other responses regarding Kenny not being a real person.
[ April 30, 2002, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: Mike Pipes ]
Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
HEY CHERYL, I GUESS IT AINT OVER TILL ITS OVER,eh!?
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
Nope Shane....I guess you don't want to fish for Logos in some peoples ponds it appears!! NO TRESPASSING! *ouch* ('cept for some of us have a 'welcome' sign out front, so don't fret) and I just have to say.....it is a mighty hard fall for the few who have positioned themselves up so high. Bob...unfortunately this little topic will never be over. Hey Cisco.......LOCO! thanks my friend! Backatcha man.
Posted by Del Badry (Member # 114) on :
I met a signlady in a little town south of here, where i had an install to do... I inaverdetnly made something wrong and phoned her up never meeting her before and asked her if she could (asap) make this for me, she obliged i went to her home in the country and picked it up, i asked if she knew anything about letterheads, and she wrinkled here forehead and sighed.. it appears she had answered some question as a newbie,, someone blasted her and it discouraged her so much she left.. its too bad... she really helped me out that day and seems like a person that could contribute a lot.... another Kenny lost!
Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
Cheryl just said something that needed to be said. I really enjoy this place, to a point. After being very active on here for a good couple years, I decided it was better for me to be a lurker from now on, and only respond to posts that really caught my eye. This one did. This clipart issue has brought up quite a few responses from many of us. On many separate posts. It has caused quite an uproar for sure. But you all know that, so I wont repeat whats already been said before. The thing that really bugged me was I would see someone new ask for something that would help them out, only to be chastised and made fun of by a few heads, and then a couple days later, one or more of the same who did all the preaching, gladly sent something to one of their friends or said its in the mail my friend. Ive seen it happen more than once. Now what that says to me is, hey, if you are new here, F*** off! We only do stuff for our friends or regulars! Like it or not, thats the message some of the new heads get from this. Hell, it ****ed me off, I know it did others. I can tell you this, if not for some people who I count as friends on here hadnt helped me out, it woulda been rough at times. I came here in 1999 and instantly made quite a few friends, and although we have never met, its like we have knew each other for years. Some others are on here to just stir sh** up, and some are here to push, and I mean PUSH, their opinions down our throats. If you see a post asking for something, and you dont like that idea, dont answer it. Why take it upon yourself to leave some smartass answer or preaching to that person about the sins of copyright laws? Thats what Steve will do. He does it with tact and is very helpful in his response explaining the dos and donts of what goes on here. Some of you probably dont care what I think, and vice versa. I have been silent for a long while now and Cheryls post made me smile a little bit. So I had to reply. And, I miss the hell out of seeing Mark Fairs posts on here. ALong with some others who have decided to stay in the shadows. God Bless this board for what it has done for me and others. And I am very thankful for the friends I have made here. Extremely thankful.
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
Right ON JoHn! (You are greatly missed around here my friend.) There sure are alot of talented people on this board. But why do we have to listen to 3 or 4 of the same ones over and over pumping themselves up. Oh how great they are. They are perfect? I don't think so. They are better than us? I don't think so. They NEVER swap clipart? gimme a break! They charge for every logo clean up?? Yeah right. They are perfect....they NEVER need anything. mmmm hmmmm. sure. There are alot of 'truely great Letterheads' who are missed here. I wonder why they left......... And I am sure there are a whole lotta newbies who would love to move in if given the chance and aren't made to feel unwelcome. Glad to see your smilin' face again John! You sure made my day. thanks for your support. See ya around town.....!
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
A wise man once said, "Its always right to do right."
You know in your heart what it is. So the question is, "what will you do?"
When someone relatively new ask for clip-art or logos, there are those who take it upon themselves, however well intentioned, to "correct" the infraction. Thats wrong. That is Steve & Barb's job. They set the rules and it is up to them or to whomever they appoint to handle it.
There are those who see nothing wrong in sending clip-art to help someone in need. Others see it as stealing from owner/artist of the clipart design.
Do what you know is right.
(this sermon by the Right-Reverend Ima Killjoy)
[ May 01, 2002, 12:50 AM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
Posted by Mikes Mischeif (Member # 1744) on :
I do sub work for 3 local printing companies here in my area. I mentioned this discussion and got some interesting feedback.
The printing industry solved this copywrite use controversy years ago. Too bad the sign industry is a decade behind and still catching up. Everyone thinks this issue is new since computerized signmaking is still an infant.
Printers have dealt with this issue long before there was a sign industry. Ask one and you'll see. They could teach us a thing or two.
Posted by Joel Peters (Member # 622) on :
Wow,A breath of fresh air out of the great northwest. Thank you, Cheryl.
The recent posts on copyright matters, logo swapping and font trading were very informative and important subjects. But ,
I personally could not have gone as far as I have in life, if it not for supportive friends, associates, or even kind strangers.
If one of my sign buddies in the business here in Chicagoland needs one logo or font for any reason, he gets it. If they need the entire 5 font "Bohuenek" set from SignDNA, they have to buy it from Dave Simpson. Dave is too Kool of a guy to screw money out of. We as a community need merchants like him to prosper and flourish so we can reap the benefits of new products. I wouldn't know what to do if I didn't have the "Fast Eddie" font for alot of my casuals'.
A couple of days ago I really needed help with some cutable clipart. It took me a few days to get the nerve to ask for help. I was desperate,and could not get what I needed locally. So I posted. In two hours four of the Koolest of my Lettervile neighbors helped my out. The day was saved. You know what they're gonna get for that? My loyalty, friendship and my help in the future.
To John Deaton: You Rock, man! I hope to see more of you around here. I'm a huge fan of your work.
To Mark Fair: Ditto for you! I've learned alot following you around the neighborhood the past four years. Your logo design work is so clean and inspiring. You have literally brought me to tears with that sense of humor of yours. Between you and Mike Meyer, oh man!
....now I'm rambling. Anyway, this is a great place, and I guess my 2 cents worth is about helping and friendship in one of the most creative and satisfying crafts on earth.
I gonna stop now.
Thanks again, Cheryl.
Joel Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on :
hey joel, thanks for the kind words brother.
i am not special, i just try to find my way in this world. i strive to be creative.
i have learned so much from the "letterheads" i have met over the years. (mike meyer is one of my heroes.)
if i have inspired you in the smallest sense, then i have returned a little bit of the inspiration that i have obtained by this great movement called "LETTERHEADS"
God Bless you Letterheads,
mark
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
I just have to jump in here and clarify some of what I am reading here. As you all know, Letterville is much more than a business to Barb and I. We not only talk Letterheads, we get out to as many meets as possible and do anything we can to promote others to do the same. In a nutshell, Letterville is our life.
From time to time, I see reference to all the quality people that not longer choose to play with us. The innuendo is that we have done something to hurt their feelings and they have decided to run home and stop playing. What's with that?
We've heard the story of Kenny, a person we now know never did exist. Now I am reading about some lady that claimed she was run out of Letterville. It upset me so much that I investigated furthur to get a name and see if there was anything we could do to make ammends.
It ends up the person in question has never registered to post on this BB. She may have posted on the old BB, but that was 5 years ago. In any event, what would you suggest we do different in order to please those that cannot tolerate different points of view.
I suggest we start concentrating on all the new people here and stop wasting time worrying about those who choose not to participate. It's a tough old World out there and it's not always fair. We're doing all we can to provide a friendly, enviornment for discussion and learning, but I'm finally learning that I cannot please everyone, nor cope with the insecurities of everyone.
Yes there are some that have moved on. In most cases, you may not be aware of why. I suggest you learn all the facts before making assumptions that often have a way of returning to bite us in the butt.
During the last 7 days, 19 new signmakers have registered to post here in Letterville. I want to be the first to invite them to take the leap and make their first post. Tell us a little about yourselves, your business, family and hopes for the future.
Letterville is a relection of real life, we have our grumps, pessimists and eccentric participants. And I'm just talking about me! Stick around long enough for us to get you out to a live meet. You'll discover that our bark is always bigger than our bite. I'll bet you even make some new friendships that will last a lifetime. If you feel you have been wronged, we want to hear about it. We'll do everything we can to make things right. Give it a try.
For those that have left, and we know you read this BB everyday anyway, please know the door is always open. Tomorrow is always the beginning of a new day in Letterville.
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
my question is: what happened to Dagger Rat? He is the one who started Mass Mayhem, 2 years ago he posted a question, his first post..."any New England area Letterheads who might want to get together?" from that question he got 12-15 responses and eventually grew into Mass Mayhem and now New England Letterheads. He never responded to his origonal post or to any Mass Mayhem posts since, just that one post. nobody scared him away, he just didnt come back.
Posted by Steve Nuttle (Member # 2645) on :
Well said Steve. I couldn't help but make a post here after thinking long and hard. Mike Jackson came into the shop last week looking for some 1/4 scrap ply. He was working on a project and needed some. I didn't have any but instead lent him our bisket maker. Did I charge him? Hell no. We got to talking about Letterville and such and as I new person here I still have that feeling of excitment. I do know that some days I see a lot of stuff here that makes me shake my head. Mike and I both agreed that some days there is more junk and OT stuff and preaching than really good posts that are informative. I can't speak for Mike but I notice a lack of posts from him since I have been here. I for one still enjoy coming here and learning and sharing what little knowledge I have. You can't please all the people all the time. So to Steve and Barb, a great job and please continue. To the rest of the folks here...thanks for sharing whatever is on your minds and hearts. If I don't like or agree with your posts, I won't respond. Thanks again and have a great day.
Best Regards, Steve
Posted by Santo (Member # 411) on :
I got to say that, I had my head jerked around yesterday in the same manner I believe we are discussing now by a signmaker striper, I recently met. So it happens off this board also. The subject was a sign I did in a hurry last Jan. and followed the clients wishes rather than my design choices. I really believe, the "Thanks I needed that" slap was to the point and give without judgement. I welcomed the critique. The other side of that is that it still left the sick stomach feeling like a kick in the b*/-s.
[ May 01, 2002, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: Santo ]
Posted by Delzell (Member # 1965) on :
Cheryl, your post and the fishing talk reminded me of this e-mail.
THE RAT RACE EXPLAINED
A boat docked in a tiny Mexican village. An American tourist complimented the Mexican fisherman on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took him to catch them.” Not very long," answered the Mexican. "But then, why didn't you stay out longer and catch more?" asked the American.
The Mexican explained that his small catch was sufficient to meet his needs and those of his family. The American asked, "But what do you do with the rest of your time?" "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, and take a siesta with my wife. In the evenings, I go into the village to see my friends, have a few drinks, play the guitar, and sing a few songs...I have a full life."
The American interrupted, "I have an MBA from Harvard and I can help you! You should start by fishing longer every day. You can then sell the extra fish you catch. With the extra revenue, you can buy a bigger boat. With the extra money the larger boat will bring, you can buy a second one and a third one and so on until you have an entire fleet of trawlers. Instead of selling your fish to a middle man, you can negotiate directly with the processing plants and maybe even open your own plant. You can then leave this little village and move to Mexico City, Los Angeles, or even New York City! From there you can direct your huge enterprise."
"How long would that take?" asked the Mexican.
"Twenty, perhaps twenty-five years," replied the American.
"And after that?"
"Afterwards? That's when it gets really interesting," answered the American, laughing. "When your business gets really big, you can start selling stocks and make millions!"
"Millions? Really? And after that?"
"After that you'll be able to retire, live in a tiny village near the coast, sleep late, play with your children, catch a few fish, take a siesta, and spend your evenings drinking and enjoying your friends."
Posted by Jackson Smart (Member # 187) on :
Yeah Cheryl!!!!
I have been hanging around here for a couple of years. I used to get involved in the discussions on this board. Some were very informative...some were not. We always have the right to read and comment or just smile and move on. As far as the people here...it is no different that real life, sometimes you just don't agree with your nieghbors over some issue, real or imagined, and some times it erupts into a real fight. We must remember that we are just humans doing what humans do, so try not to take any of it personal...and please remember..."It is just a game"! We all WIN!
So...now I am just an occasional visitor. I like to check in and keep in contact with some of the people here that I admire and appreciate calling "friends".
So...let's all just stop and BREATH...it will get your WA in balance...I think some of you really need it.
Cheryl...thanks for speaking your truth...it is time for ALL women to start.
As always....Love
Jackson
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
thanks Jackson......! love to you from your big bad brutally honest neighbor and friend.xoxo! Hope business is booming for you! One of these days I hope to meet you in person. Cisco was so impressed with your work. take care!
Posted by Del Badry (Member # 114) on :
Steve, i knew that it had been quite awhile since this incident, i was just commenting on it with this post in mind....it wasnt a matter of opinion, it was the case of being basically called stupid for an answer she offered on someones post.... she's a sensitive woman and just didnt need the aggravation... you ever notice that most of the postings are from men....
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Hey Everyone,
I’m curious to know just exactly who are these elitists in the line of fire here? Seems there are a lot of faceless folks being targeted. Sure makes it easier to talk down about “them” that way I suppose. Highschool revisited!
Let’s put a name and face on one shall we? I suspect at least one of the cross-hairs is bound to be intended for me, so I’ll put myself out there so some of you can get a better shot! Do I think this because I’m paranoid? No. But I’d be willing to bet afew others are pondering just which side of this line they’re on too. One of the drawbacks to the elusiveness of inuendos . Could it be we’ve all ridden that line?
In this instance, I’m basing my suspicions on a few observations.
One is that the example setting here is with the “Kenny Saga”, and the fact that I was the illedged “bad egg” in that scenario. I heard much of the same verbage Cheryl uses here directed towards me by her back them. Both publicly and privately. Her and I have our own versions with regards to that whole event, and although our views differ, it seems that only one of us has moved forward from that. I won’t be rehashing it. I clarified my intentions back then, offered apologies, acknowledged the difference with respect, and have moved on. Still I find myself linked to what some view as a "bad example".
I also feel like a possible target here because my views on the clipart thing differs from many. Though I realize it’s not a popular one, I’m just not out to win any popularity contests with it! While I can appreciate the list of analogies on this initial post with regards to being a helpful neighbor, filled with all the dynamics of being a giving person, I am tripped up by some manipulations of facts and some of the twisted concepts of later comments. For instance, (and I’ll intentionally use only myself as an example here) I’m not sure how a stance in viewing clip art as a chargable service coincides with the thinking that one’s too perfect to help someone out? And how then does that flow onto being an issue of NEVER asking for help, and using every opportunity to get pumped up? I’m not getting how encouraging others to value their time, their tools and themselves better leads to the thinking that one rates better than everyone else?
If I offer to pay someone on here for a piece of clip art, rather than expecting them to be my personal clip art library for free, especially when I’ll be finanacially compensated by my end customer … tell me, how is that not creating a winning respectful situation all the way around? Wow … how absolutely “holier than thou” of me! If someone would forego that offer for payment, I would still accept the help with gratitude … but I wouldn’t take it for granted by the EXPECTATION of something for nothing. That’s just MY way of respecting the privileges this BB offers. Be that right or wrong in the eyes of anyone else.
As much as I would like to chime in with many here on some of the positive points that I do agree exists in this thread, I’m all too aware of the backhanded way it carries it’s message. It conveys those points by putting someone down, and further more, it does it insidiously without accountability. Kinda takes on the scope of a linching. Pardon my elitism here, but I AM above that. I like to deal with things head on, with unbiased fairness, and if at all possible with those directly involved at the very time ”an issue” is happening.
I must admit that at first I was feeling quite gang-banged by this thread because of some of the correlations made, … and then it occurred to me that most everyone remarking here about “them” is referring to their own targetted nemesis, … each with their own personal stories and each involving their own sets of circumstances … be they fact or fiction. I wonder how easily we could make our judgements and assumptions of folks on here if we were to start naming names and placing faces on these “insensitive egomaniacs”. If we were to start having to examine our motives, delve into our perceptions, and, EGADS, BACK our claims with facts?
The positive intentions of this post, are certainly commendable … namely to keep newbies feeling welcomed so that they don’t leave, and to serve as a reminder to keep our egos and attitudes in check. As Steve points out … something we can ALL work on! I contend that none of us is above faltering here. Perhaps we could also work on not being oversensitive and defensive when others don’t share our viewpoints. To stay open to the possibility that we may be misreading someones intentions. To allow for the benefit of doubt when we are not given an answer with just the right measure of sugar coating. That measure being a coin toss, that can be determined by anything from the alignment of the moon to the time of day.
I empathize with the notion that some newbies may be afraid to ask questions here, but then I also clearly see how it pales in comparison to the growing list of those leary of replying with valid and level headed answers for fear of the twists it could take on.
I’ve come very close to adding myself to that list many times, be it for the simple fact that I just don’t place much importance on the misguided insinuations and perceptions of a few, and that it would take much more than that to keep from contributing to the many wonderful things this BB does stand for.
Lastly, I want to be sure to say that I'm not targeting anyone here with these comments ... what I'm trying to convey most of all is that none of us is perfect and yes, we could all help each other out in any number of ways. Let's start by cutting each other some slack.
Thanks a bunch for listening folks! Signed endearingly, Bambi Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
. . . . . . . . . . . . for a big hug, and a friendly pat on the fanny! Don't ever go away! We need level headed people here!
Posted by Santo (Member # 411) on :
How many remember the Blue Crab incedent a few years back? It was a similar issue where someone was looking for clipart of a Baltimore Blue Crab for who knows what. Big fuss over nothing as I recall but the BullBoard kept getting stronger. Let's get over this. Don't be like a real blue crab and pinch on to something and not let go.
Nettie, as I remember, yours was the first reply to the Kenny post, which is something that often occurs. Keep it up.
Posted by Jim Upchurch (Member # 209) on :
Hey Bambi ! Don't worry about it. Apparently people will just see things differently no matter what. You made valid points and explained why. It made sense to me and I don't know how it could be misconstrued as being elitist. If it is then I'll be happy to join the crowd.
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
Nettie, (Bambi) By writing this post, my intention was not to single you or anyone out. If you are feeling alone, perhaps it is because the truth hurt? Only you know the answer to that.
I do realize we are at times taken entirely wrong. Some posts are meant to be humorous, and are not seen that way. To toss out names as you request: Mister Bruce Bowers is a great example. He is a dynamite person, but comes across wrong to new people every once in awhile. Joey Madden. We all know he is taken wrong by those who don't know him. But to know both Bruce and Joey, and yes you Nettie...we learn to read between the lines a bit IF we have been around awhile and accept and love the crazy different ways of each other. Sometimes answers are fully intended to come across in a totally smart a$$ tone. And to not know the personalities here (i.e. newbie) I would think alot of people just shake their heads and leave, never to be seen again. This to me is very sad. Perhaps we need to expand our neighborhood.
As far as putting a name 'shall we' to the face. I think you just did. You feel singled out. You feel sort of alone, because not all agreed with your way of thinking? How do you think a newbie feels when nobody replies?? or nobody says 'welcome!' Just curious. Do you think the feeling may be similar?
As far as the clipart issue....we all have our opinions. Just because we aren't all following in your thoughts, is it a 'poor me' reply? Boy talk about high school revisited! Your comments about 'the dynamics of being a giving person' 'using every opportunity to get pumped up' 'I'm not getting how encouraging others to value their time, their tools, and themselves better leads to value their time.' ....leads me to believe you are feeling as though your 'queen bee' status is being threatened. Well don't get your stinger out of wack Miss Nettie. I certainly don't want to be queen. I like it right where I am, thank you very much. I don't want to put myself up on some pedestal. It certainly is one long ass fall when you come crashing down.
Now lets talk about 'putting a value on our time' shall we? I value my time tremendously. I have many things going on, as we all do. As a matter of fact, I put such a high value on my time that I don't want to waste it 'charging for cleaning up a logo that has already BEEN produced' or some silly (you said so yourself) piece of clipart hardly worth all this nonsense. Is that what this is all about? Clipart. Logos. Corporate logos that have already been cleaned up. Why do it again, unless absolutely necessary? Heck, I would much rather spend my time designing a brand new logo from scratch! Or producing signs that make me much more money than charging a customer for the clean up when you could have it right there in front of you.
So no, this post was not all about you Nettie. This post was not to make you or anyone feel singled out. It is for all the little buggers out there......the ones afraid to post.....the ones who HAVE posted and felt the sting of the bees.
Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
OK GUYS.....CAN WE ALL GO BACK TO WORK NOW!?
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Wow, I knew I wasn’t making it on your christmas list anytime soon, but I had no idea I ruffled you to such a degree. Ooops!
When you take my own words in an effort to use them against me, please try to keep them in context. as I do take care in applying them with logic and reason. Both escape me in your reply.
Any more on this would just perpetuate the bickering I’d like to see less of on this BB. My previous reply pretty much covers it for me, and was rendered non-confrontationally.
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
Actually it appears I did the ruffling Nettie. oops. And I also say if you dish it out....expect to get it back.
oh and forgot to add.....as usual your messages are filled with lots of fancy words and very little actual content. Be Happy!
[ May 01, 2002, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: cheryl nordby ]
Posted by Roy Frisby (Member # 736) on :
The barefoot babe has spoken, now everyone BE HAPPY!!!
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Did I hear my name mentioned?
My name is a trademark of HotLines Incorporated and using it without my permission is in default of its copyright. Please reframe from mentioning anything relating to HotLines or Joey Madden or you will hear from my attorney, who by the way is a Jewish ball busting New Yawker and a supreme court judge.
Thank you!
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Yo, Joey...
Is that a supeona in your pocket or are you just glad to see us?
Have a great one, Bro!
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
YO Joey and Bruce.....Well I am happy to see you...and I don't have a supeona in my pocket. (hope I didn't ruffle you guys as I did one Letterette)
My apologies if I did....
[ May 01, 2002, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: cheryl nordby ]
Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
Cheryl, Put away that 5 LB. sledge.......we know you wouldn't hurt a fly!
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
I do see your point Cheryl. But it also appears to me that the way this post is turning out, this is also the kind of posting that sends people running.
Everyone has their own individual posting style. I say respect ranks #1. With respect and carefully chosen words, offending could be a thing of the past.
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
I agree Donna. And this didn't happen until 'somebody' felt nobody agreed with them. If the post was read how it was intended to come across instead of taken as targeting one person to pick on maybe it would not have turned out as it did. As I said before....it was intended for the Kenny's and Kennyette's who are no longer around.(using the name Kenny only as an example as he was just a figment of our imagination...remember) As far as turning into a post of disrespect...I will usually slam back if I am slammed. And it appears I was. I have never been one to run away with my tail between my legs.
enough said? I was simply trying to prove a point. A point that some were trying so hard to prove by implying some of us don't think 'highly' enough of ourself to charge for everything.
[ May 02, 2002, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: cheryl nordby ]
Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on :
why don't you try giving it a rest cheryl?
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
OH hi Mark. (I thought you left??????)
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
Cheryl
Lets stop with the face Slapping! Lets see some of your lastest work.
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
what I am doing is all on my website. Right now I am working on 30 more commercial real estate signs. Kinda boring! But pays the bills...... Who's face did I slap? I thought I saw an exit a few times. So how you doing Stephen?
Enough said yet???
Posted by Scott Moyer (Member # 1433) on :
Janet how long duz it take you to write one of those long post's I couldn't do it If I had a year.I would forget what I wanted to say not to mention all of my spelling mistakes and puncuation errors, guess that's why I got D's in english Don't mean any offense just thought It was cool the way you write.Don't really know what the beef is about but you were always someone with alot of common sense here you usally don't have negative things to say ,Cheryl I see you're point too the greats on this board scare alot of people away they don't even want to post, they call this the mean board on other sign sites. I think we can learn from everybody like why people with a year experience and no layout abilty are sucsessful in this buisness.They must be doing something right.
Posted by Robert Larkham (Member # 2913) on :
Hello- My name is Rob. I have been a pain in the ass for many years. It started as a small problem but then I couldn't stop. Now I find myself being a pain in the ass 99% of the time. I'm seeking help, trying to change. It is an up hill battle. If during my rehabilitation you happen to get in my cross hairs, please don't take it personal. I don't hate anyone. I have learned a great deal from this board and EVERYONE on it. I'm far from the best sign guy around. I have a thirst to learn all I can. I realize much of that can be learned here and at live meets. I would hope to meet many of you on this board someday. You will find that Yes, I'm a pain in the ass in person, but I mean well. I'm always willing to help if I can. If anything I have ever said on here ****ed anyone off then I'm sorry. I'm the type that shoots from the hip. Remember, we are a cross section of the world. This post is meant to be funny and calm some nerves here. I love this place and I'm thankful for all I have learnd here. Plus the clipart i won on the monthly draw....and no you can't have none, that would be illegal.
[ May 02, 2002, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: Robert Larkham ]
Posted by Bob Burns (Member # 268) on :
ROB, I don't even know you, but....yes....you MUST be a pain in the ass to even want to add to this string! But Cheryl and I will agree, I'm SURE....THAT YOU SHOULDN'T CHANGE ONE BIT!
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
I've followed this thread from the beginning. As we drove east today towards this weekend's Letterhead Meet, I kept thinking about. What is really going on here?
The original post talks about several unamed people that no longer post here. The example used is a guy called Kenny. Kenny turns out to be a phony character...a poor attempt at pulling the wool over all our eyes. Why? Who knows? All I know for sure is that these pranks are not intended to bring us closer here in Letterville.
At this point in time, this whole clipart debate is an non-issue here in Letterville. The current Law Of Letterville already prohibits the trading of copywritten materials. There are questions about what is legal, as well as morally correct. Until we get to the bottom of this, there is no way we are going to put Letterville into a position where we may become the target of some sort of lawsuit. More on this subject in future posts.
I'm more upset that 2 people I know and like personally are not getting along. The original post opened all our eyes and hopefully made us think about how we treat new visitors to Letterville. Now it's time to think about how we treat each other too. I'm talking about longtime website users.
Iknow personalities clash and we all have various views about almost everything. That's never going to change and I personally feel it would be a pretty boring world without debating tough issues that we face in our lives and business on a daily basis. We have to learn to conduct these debates with respect for each other, as well as our various points of view.
All of us are free to run our business and conduct our lives anyway we desire. the debate on what to charge for and what to give away is a personal one. We're all in different financial situations. If you are paying your bills and your family is fed, I see nothing wrong with giving friends, churches, and other special interest groups free work. The added bonus of generating excess funds is that you will never have any financial need to trade or copy trademarked material.
There is another view that is equally of value. Charge for every hour you work. When I worked for others, I never considered myself a bad guy for accepting a wage for every hour worked. I'm ashamed to say that I never returned any bonus, holiday pay or other benefits either. Why should it be any different when you are working for yourself?
My point of view is that both systems are valid. We visit a ton of shops and I see both business models used everyday. The only time I ever raise an eyebrow is if someone complains that they are working 12 hours a day, every weekend and are constantly broke. Then and only then, a suggestion might be made to start charging more and/or really take a look at who are your real friends. It may be time to reinvent your business ideas, but nobody has the right to impose their views on you either way. Read all points of view and decide what is right for you.
How do I wrap this up? For those that really desire to see Letterville grow, you need to think more about what you are typing and more important, what you are feeling when making your posts. Are you addressing the original post or question, or heading down some other road? Respect the Laws Of Letterville and treat others the way you want to be treated.
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
I am a hypocrate! When someone mentions a need for something and they live across the planet, I send it to them. If the shop across the corner asked for it and under bid me on the job, I would not share it. I am not consistant with the principals I speak. I'm guilty of doing what I feel like, for whom I feel like and when I feel like. Please forgive me.
Posted by cheryl nordby (Member # 1100) on :
Steve. ~~thank you~~ You are great with keeping this neighborhood under control. (kinda reminds me of Jerry Springers final thoughts) No wonder you are Mayor. You're good!
My last question on this post is: where is the damn social security office in this town? I just gotta change my middle name from 'trouble' to sumthin else. Maybe I will swing by the post office too. (I think I have an apology to mail)
Later. Cheryl no more trouble Nordby Posted by Robert Larkham (Member # 2913) on :
Cheryl- all of us won't agree all the time. it doesn't mean any are trouble makers. We just have different opinions and different ways of expressing them. No hard feelings. But I would love to see you and Jannette get along. I think you both have something to offer. Cheers!
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Your comments about 'the dynamics of being a giving person' 'using every opportunity to get pumped up' 'I'm not getting how encouraging others to value their time, their tools, and themselves better leads to value their time.' ....leads me to believe you are feeling as though your 'queen bee' status is being threatened. Well don't get your stinger out of wack Miss Nettie. I certainly don't want to be queen. I like it right where I am, thank you very much. I don't want to put myself up on some pedestal. It certainly is one long ass fall when you come crashing down. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
I'm far from the best sign guy around. I have a thirst to learn all I can. I realize much of that can be learned here and at live meets. I would hope to meet many of you on this board someday. You will find that Yes, I'm a pain in the ass in person, but I mean well. I'm always willing to help if I can. If anything I have ever said on here ****ed anyone off then I'm sorry. I'm the type that shoots from the hip. Remember, we are a cross section of the world. This post is meant to be funny and calm some nerves here. I love this place and I'm thankful for all I have learnd here. Plus the clipart i won on the monthly draw....and no you can't have none, that would be illegal.