I've been experimenting with gold leaf. I decided to use the imitation gold on an aluminumn sign blank for my first attemt I was able to lay the gold pretty good it layed flat with very few wrinkles the only problem im having is it is visable where the leaf overlaps i tried buffing the lines out with cotten but that didnt help. Is this normal, am I missing a step, or could it be the fact that its imitation and not real gold leaf im afraid to move one to the real stuff untill i figure out what im doing wrong. Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Imitation leaf will show where you lap over another leaf because of the thickness. Real gold leaf is so thin, lap marks are virtually invisible!
*WARNING* When you rub on real gold leaf, be very gentle, it is also very soft, otherwise, you can rub right thru it!
Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
What Si said, and to add, imitation leaf might also be known as Dutch gold and will tarnish in outdoor use.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
I've used imitation gold, the verigated kind with excellent results but have always tried to line it up as perfect as I could before laying it out. These things I've done were on motorcycle tanks and were clearcoated. As far as the term Dutch Gold, haven't a clue!
Posted by John Smith (Member # 1308) on :
If you are going to practice, practice with the real stuff on various substrates. A book of 23.5k patent gold is only about 35 bucks and well worth your investment. Kent Smith has some very informative videos on the "how to" of gold work. Sepp Leaf is a major gold supplier. But, now, you have to get it from New York Central Art Supply (their web page) which just came out with a very nice 150 page catalog.
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
The biggest obstacle to learning to gild is fear. Lots of people can't get past the "Oh my god it's GOLD, I can't take any chances" mentality. Get a book of real 23k gold. Take a leaf in your hand, (it's worth about a dollar or less), and crumble it up. You've just wasted a WHOLE DOLLAR - big deal! Now use the rest of the book to experiment. Do a few letters in quick size, a few with slow. Mix them in different proportions, see how long they take to reach a tack, and record your results. Spin a letter or two and get used to it. Laying gold is just not that big of a mystery, but there is one simple fact - you won't learn to lay gold by practicing with Dutch metal or anything else. Gold is gold; it doesn't lay down, burnish, or spin, or look like anything else. Gold leaf is the one thing in our trade that can't be faked or imitated or cheapened, it really IS an example of "accept no substitutes" and learning to work with it is one of the more valuable skills you can gain.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Cam,
I have never done "gold leaf", but after reading your post, I almost feel like trying it just for fun. Your advice is very friendly, and would help me remove the "fear factor".
Question: Knowing literally nothing about gold leaf (or gilding?) does part of the process require that, once completed, it needs to be cleared or coated with something to keep it from being damaged? Si, you aluded to the fact that it is somewhat fragile? Just curious. Thanks guys. Posted by bronzeo (Member # 1408) on :
Todd, Its fragility is to its handling. If you sneeze, it is in the next county. Use patent gold with the backing for most jobs (much easier to handle). No clearcoats needed or desired. I will cut the effects of real gold to as much as in half. Imagine a gold ring with varnish on it. Now image how well it will weather outdoors with nothing on it. Now imagine using a lot higher quality gold (23.75K) on a sign surface. The life of the gild is in the size ( its varnish like adhesive ) and its qualities. I really don't if a basis of info on that. Maybe someone could reflect on this subject? Jack
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
Tod, part of your investment should be in buying "Gold Leaf Techniques", edited by Kent Smith and available through this site. It's the bible of gilding and perfect for someone who "literally knows nothing" about gold leaf. As for the durability of sizing, a good slow size like Lefranc has an outdoor durability comparible to the Pyramids. Well, maybe not that long, but enough not to worry about. Clear coat is for truck lettering or other applications where abrasion is unavaoidable, otherwise, gild it, burnish it, put it out there and leave it alone.
Here's a practice idea: Call Gemini and get a free letter sample kit, (800-LETTERS)and gild a couple of letters. They aren't the easiest things in the world to get right, but you can do them over and over and by the time you get the hang of it, you'll be an old hand.
[ April 23, 2002, 07:21 AM: Message edited by: Cam Bortz ]
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Thanks guys! Hey, what is the usual technique if you want to apply gold leaf to some raised letters on a blasted HDU sign? Is this done? Do you recommend it, or not? I would imagine you need a primed or painted smooth surface first don't you?
Maybe I should quit asking questions, buy the book, and just give it a try! Sounds pretty cool though, and looks cool to boot. I always figured it was some kind of secret recipe that only gray haired ol' masters learned through years of apprenticeship from their forefathers. It sounds like it can be done with some practice.
Thanks for all the good advice guys! Very kind of you all.
Posted by Richard Doyle (Member # 2919) on :
thanx to everyone for the advice I kind of had a feeling my problems were partly because i was using imitation gold. Ill start using the real stuff and look into the books.
Posted by John Smith (Member # 1308) on :
Todd, that is a good question .... the amount of luster from the gold depends on how smooth your undercoat is. If you gild sandblasted HDU signs (or wood) that have paintbrush strokes and defects in the painted letters, the gold only amplifies the irregularities. It is imperative to achieve the smoothest finish possible prior to gilding anything.
Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
You can also buy silver leaf or bronze leaf.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Thanks John. Now...to get up the courage Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
I've learnt that a slow drying size,like 12 hours or more, produces a better durability than the quick drying ones.I haven't seen the difference really, but wouldn't dare taking a chance. I haven't worked with gold leaf in many years, but this post made me wanting to get back into it right now. It is very rewarding work, no comparison to vinyl. Go for it, guys!
Posted by Jonathan Androsky (Member # 2806) on :
Well, looks like everyone beat me to the punch on this one. I really like Cam's Gemini sample idea.
For a vrey slick look on sandblasted signs, try some SignShine (or West Systems, or any similar epoxy resin treatment)on your raised text and then gild over that. Not only does this add some extra dimension to your sign, the resin cures with a smooth as glass finish and the goldeaf over top of it will SCREAM .
One thing that I have found is important when selling gold leaf, especially if you are trying to upsell to it, is that the client understands exactly what you're doing. Just saying, "Yeah, this is gonna' be gold," doesn't cut it.
Show them a piece of loose leaf and tell them, "This is a piece of 23.5k gold that has been hammered to hair fine thickness. What I'm going to do is carefully apply it to your sign, boat, bike, whatever with an adheasive called 'size'...etc...etc.". People seem to be more willing to pay for the craftsmanship when they understand something about it.
Posted by Bruce Deveau (Member # 1600) on :
I want to re-emphasize Cam's point to purchase Kent Smith's Gold Leaf Techniques book. For the beginner and expert alike, the book is a constant reference source.
Congratulations on trying gold leaf! I do a bunch of gold leaf and it has become the most joyful thing I do.
Bruce Deveau
Posted by timi NC (Member # 576) on :
Add another vote for the gold techniques book here,and even better if you can find someone in your area who knows how to gild go ask them for help or demonstrations if at all possible.It may very well be worth your while to offer to pay for this privilage,as the art of gilding is one of the highest paying aspects of our trade.
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It sounds like it can be done with some practice.