Over the last 5 years I've kept changing my Yellow Page ads. 1st year used a quarter column size, next year a slightly larger ad with a horizontal layout then the following year back to the quarter column size for the 3rd year. The last two years I used a 5 line "text box." The most recent book came out in November of last year. I requested to only receive the "free listing." They removed my previous years text box ad and didn't give me anything! No name, no number, nothing! The day after I received the book I got a call from a regular customer. Luckily he found an old invoice because he said he looked for me in the phone book and thought I had closed up shop or moved. After 50+ phone calls I received a small amount of money from the phone company for their error. Since its technically a "free listing" I was lucky to get that. Without going to court and having a documented loss of business directly related to the omission of the ad I wasn't going to be able to get anything else. We'll, 6 months later I'm still in business and happy to report the Yellow Pages can keep their free listings. Business has never been better. Some will argue that we're doing well in spite of not having an ad but I don't want any more work...I barely have time to type this post!
[ April 16, 2002, 11:17 PM: Message edited by: Brian Snyder ]
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
if you want to put in yellow page adds do this, get your free listing under SIGNS. then see what it cost to put your co name under TRUCK LETTERING, BOAT LETTERING, LOGO DESIGN....There is money well spent.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Good Man Brian, this is what doing a good job gets you!! Congradulations!!
Roger
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Hiya Bri, I guess you can consider it a bummer and a blessing at the same time. Think of the money that you're saving, or better yet, the money this error freed up that you now can spend on better ways to market your business to the clients you want. Just a few weeks ago, I got a letter from the local phone company. Included with this letter was instructions on how to remove and insert the new pages into my phone book. Apparently, there was a listing were a few doctors names were either excluded or spelled wrong. I guess if you're a company with the legal resources, you can strike back when the phone company screws up. Havin' fun, Checkers
Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
I've had my business in the Yellow Pages for years and I don't think it is doing any good at all. Even the Services Directory in the local paper is a disappointment. All my business comes from repeat customers, referrals and people who notice the shop when driving by. Yet, can I afford not to be listed? It will look like there is no sign shop in the area, but would anyone even notice? I have been pondering this for a while now. Posted by Dan Sawatzky (Member # 88) on :
I've been stumped for years about our free listing... Under which category would I possibly list???
We aren't exactly sign people... a listing there would only be a bother... I don't do 'normal' signs and I don't want to answer the phone for price checkers or folks looking for a quicky sign.
I don't want to be listed as an artist. I am one but I don't do what most artists do.
I just do NOT fit into any category or box that folks want to put me in. Most days I have trouble defining what I am doing for a living... except having a whole bunch of fun doing fun stuff.
So we are in the white pages listed alphabetically with everyone else in there.
And my name is on my truck (or soon will be) Our work is known far and wide... you know - the guy who does that wierd stuff. He can build anything. You know - the guy who did the sugar castle and that fun golf mini-golf course you know the guy.
Our work comes by referral alone. And we keep as busy as we need to be. The folks who get to be my customers don't ask how much... they just want what I do.
And that's the way it should be.
-dan
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
For years i played the yellow page game even though my statistics showed the truth. 3 years ago I listened to what my numbers were telling me and reduced it all to a 3 inch in coluum ad. That year my info calls remain at the same count, Last year was a record year for info calls. This year info call count is the same but the setting of appointments is up to 81%. Yellow page reps are highly trained to play upon your ego, fears, and/or ignorance. And finally, there is a number us in our association that all have experienced the same results. Im convinved that great things would happen if I spent $200 bux a month doing a specialized marketing program rather than waste that money waiting for ppl to read yellow page ads with their morning coffee.
Posted by Amy Brown (Member # 1963) on :
Brian, Wish I could say I am as busy as you. You don't need a phone book listing in my opinion.
I had a 2" in column ad with a box around it for a year now. I have not sold one thing from it. I went to just my name in black (no bold) for next year. It costs $11/month just for that. I called backed and tried to cancel it so I could put the money toward merchant account fees or something else useful and they told me I was too late. Next time I'm outta there!
Posted by Scott Moyer (Member # 1433) on :
The little cheap ads don't work I had them never got calls except for magnets, if your going to do yellow page you have to spend for a large display ad I have got some of my best customers from yellow pages. Didn't have a yellow ad for last couple of years guess what not many new customers, the new book just came out last week spent the money on a big ad this year guess what five new bids in one week, got a nice company vehichle all lettered up maybe get five to ten jobs a year off it if im lucky, send out mailers not much response from those either talked to a district manager from sign a rama said 90% of new calls came from yellow pages coulda been yankin my chain I don't know but they run that 1/4 page ad every year and they make more money than any other shops around here by far and theyr'e work stinks.Some say all ya get is price shoppers, in 20 years of sign making never made a sign yet without the customer asking how much first. Yellow ads work for me.
Posted by Brian Snyder (Member # 41) on :
Joe- That's what I requested. I actually have a listing under "Truck Lettering", it's $8.00/month They just omitted the "free ad" under "Signs."
Roger- Thanks!
Brian- I guess if you're a company with the legal resources, you can strike back when the phone company screws up. Yeah, you're right. I got a small amount of money and it's credited to my phone bills every month. It literally took 50+ phone calls to get that.
Lotti- There are probaly at least 75 listings under "Signs" in my book.
Dan- My first year in business I had an extra listing put in under "Artists - Commercial." It was $6.00 a month. I got about 7 calls from it....6 calls for family portrait paintings.....not my thing. Then,I got a call from the manager of some reststops on the NJ Turnpike who found me under this listing. He wanted window splashes for the Christmas holidays at 8 reststops. Fastest $2,000 I ever made. 12 hours, a helper and a few "buckets" of Rich Art window paint. That job covered the ad..... (BTW, Rich Art paint flows like peanut butter in the cold....) :-)
Curtis- I think you're absolutely right about a specialized marketing campaign. At least you'll get the types of jobs YOU want.
Amy- Don't sweat it....if I remember correctly you are relatively new to signmaking. Give it time, the referal and repeat business seems to grow exponentially. Every year I hear more people saying "so-and-so told me to see you....."
Scott- Those Sign-a-rama's may be making the most *revenue* but they should and they NEED to as their expenses are higher. If I had to close up shop for a month it'll only cost me a little under $2,000. Those franchises have far more overhead than that. I'd bet their advertising alone is close to $700/mo. I've thought about the risks and rewards of growing my business (equipment and capabilities) and it just isn't worth it. I can't imagine working 50% more for 25% more money.
Posted by Roy Frisby (Member # 736) on :
I've tried the quarter page ad and it didn't work any better than the little 1" ad. That has been the size for me until the new directories comes out and then its the "free listing only" I was late paying one month and they added a $25 late fee. I don't need that crap. I've been in the same location for 21 years and if I can't make it by now, it just ain't going to happen!!
Posted by Kurt Gaber (Member # 256) on :
I used to have a 125.00 per month ad, musta been a quarter column, not quarter page, and I don't think it really paid to have that. After being without it the last 3 years in a commercial location instead of out of my basement like the first seven years, I enjoy not having the "tire kickers" and price shoppers calling and asking "How much for a 3 inch tall letter?". I know it's our job to "sell" once we get them on the phone, but like most of us, word of mouth and repeat customers are the bulk of my business.
I feel pretty good about spending the money on my monthly website hosting fees, which brings in TRACKABLE work. My yellow page ad reads in bold type: GABER SIGNS, then www.gabersigns.com below that. 21.00 per month and they can go check out my stuff in full color on the site!
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
Over 20 years ago, I made the mistake of getting a quarter page display ad in the Dallas/Fort Worth Commercial pages. It cost $1200/month back then. To pay for a $1200 per month ad when your shop is several thousand square feet and you have 14 employees means that ad must generate at least $20,000 per month of revenue to add anything to your profits. It never came close. I literally had one call wanting me to bid on lettering his mailbox. In a large metro area, you have to have a huge (in size and price) ad to be noticed and you may still be dealing with the tire kickers. In Dallas, there are several hundred sign companies listed over at least a dozen pages. Our best work comes from recommendations and referrals--those people are already 90% sold on you when they call.
One year, I gave Bell camera ready art on my ad. We had a Roger Deanish look to the lettering. Rather than using the art provided, someone HAND DREW my logo--it looked awful, a total embarrassment! All I got was a small credit each month on the price of the ad. I told them we had recently done a sign for Bell and they were extremely picky about the way we executed their logo. I pointed out we were as proud of our logo as they were of theirs, words that fell on deaf ears.
Another year, Bell messed up their bookkeeping and did not credit us for paying our bill one month. Someone showed up to take out the phones. We showed them the payment stub from their Phone Mart office, showing the bill had been paid in full and on time. He got on the phone with his superiors and told them he was not taking the phones, that they had made an accounting error. They wouldn’t believe him and said we had to produce a canceled check. Our bank called them to tell them the check was at the bank and had cleared and that they needed to recheck their figures. They wouldn’t believe the bank and cut our phones off from the central office. I had to call the phone company from the business next door and they said they keep two sets of books as a safeguard against error. I told them to check their other set so they could see we had paid. They told us it was too much trouble to do so and that we should just pay the bill, reconnect fees and an additional deposit. I asked why I should do all that when I had proven they had been paid. After three days without phones and numerous calls from next door, they finally checked their other set and told me “Oh yeah, we made a mistake, you DID pay your bill.” We didn’t get credit for a single minute on our bill or an apology from anyone.
During the three days I was trying to get the phones back on, we lost a $20,000 job I had worked on getting for months. The operator told the architect we must have gone out of business. I tried to sue the phone company but the lawyer told me I had just been run over by the biggest monopoly of all (this was pre-Microsoft days).
The following year, when I tried to renew my Yellow Pages ad, they wanted me to pay for the entire year up front because, they told me, “We had to cut your phones off for non payment.” I hit the ceiling. As Lily Tomlin, in her Geraldine the operator skit, stated so well, “We’re the phone company. We don’t care. We don’t HAVE to.” I rejoiced when the courts broke up Bell. I thought, “Now they have to care,” although I doubt they really do.
I have not used the Yellow Pages for 19 years, except for my free listing. I think the Yellow Pages has buried as many companies as it has helped, maybe buried even more. All that being said, I had a friend who used the Yellow Pages for his TV repair shop in West Virginia and I have another friend who relies on the Yellow Pages in Oklahoma for the same type of business. In their markets, however, the ads are cheap and they can blanket each town in a large area for what the minimum size ad costs here. Some sign people are helped by the Yellow Pages. I wasn’t and will never go that route again.
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