If you see the picture... great. Seems as if I've had trouble posting pics. If not, looks like I still am.
Here's the situation. Guy has purchased a soft side semi trailer. There is a logo and lettering on both sides. He wants them removed or covered and then I put his logo in that spot.
The material is a heavy vinyl-tarp-fiberous-plasticky stuff. The current logo appears to be screened or stencil masked... the ink (or paint )is pretty heavy.
I just looked at this about 15 minutes ago, so I have not attempted to use anything to remove the current logo, like Lacquer Thinner.
I'm wondering if anyone has worked with this stuff before... what did you do? And when putting the new logo on (this soft side moves like an accordian) what do you use that will hold up to this thin being folded and used daily? Paint? Vinyl? Screen Ink? Should I try to remove it or simply cover it up? With what?
Thanks!
Posted by Miles Cullinane (Member # 980) on :
This isn't the solution but it is a warning. Don't go at it with screenink thinners as this will attack the material and begin to disolve it.
As far as I have been taught, The process of screening is that the ink will bite into the surface by disolving the top layer of the material a tiny bit and so removal would be impossilbe without damage.
Sorry I can't advise on best course to take. Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Ooooooweeee! This is gonna be a fun job!
Looks like about a 4'x5' logo & lettering. Don't try to do it on the truck! Find a bench or table that you can lay it on, stock up on laquer thinner, or prefferably MEK, and a case of paper towels. Cover the area with paper towels soaked with the MEK and let it bite thru the ink for a while, then start wiping with MEK dampened paper towels. Repeat until it's cleaned off! Let it dry in the Sun while you do the other one.
*WARNING* Do this in a well ventilated area! Don't store the wet towels in a closed container as the might ignite by spontainious combustion, like oily rags!
NOTE...the red may leave a stain. So plan on having some sort of panel to hide it and replace the bit of surface that might be removed.
DON'T bid this job cheap! It's gonna be a lot of work.
[ March 22, 2002, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
Posted by Mark Smith (Member # 298) on :
I suspect it's stencil masked, not screened, if it's a thick layer.
Posted by Myra Grozinger (Member # 327) on :
Mark clued me in to this post - he thinks I might know something. What I know is that I would not even THINK of removing that logo. I would not work on this material unless it's off the truck. Then I would talk the customer into my painting out the existing copy with a large rectangle of black over the whole thing ( or a shape that will be pleasing with the future Logo ) and then put the new Logo and info onto the black.
I think that not only do you have a less than 5 percent chance of getting it off without either disfiguring or ruining the substrate, your health/time/skin/lungs are more important than this job. I have not yet mentioned peace of mind or losing your religion.
You can test for ink adhesion in areas of the hem, of course. Regular vinyl screening ink, thinned down, and rolled on in a couple of coats will probably do it. If not you might use ti-coat as a sealer and then you can use one shot if you like, or almost anything else.
With this type of job I have learned to tell the customer how I will do it and that's that. If that's not acceptable, then I can't guarantee the result, and walk away. We don't have to meet every challenge.
By the way, shouldn't that E sit on an about 17 degree angle:)
Posted by Mark Matyjakowski (Member # 294) on :
I've done a few of these. I stencil masked and used vinyl screen ink ... so far holding up great after a couple years. If that's what's on there it isn't going to come off without making a major mess and leaving a ghost image... or melting/ruining the material. "Maybe" you could do a banner/panel and have it sewn over the existing logo.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
I'm with Myra...
I would scuff it down with steel wool and cover coat it in a red or deep blue or black.
You will burn the substrate if you try to wash off and the red is more than likely embedded into the surface.
Vinyl Inks is the way to go.
But like SI stated have lots of ventilation and remember your got time on your hands doing this job So charge as Job /Plus.
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
Vinyl inks are great for this type of application if you're the first one on it. Being a repaint has some problems though. Not with painting a panel over it, but when you try to brush on the new copy over the fresh panel. You'll be pulling up the panel color into your brush strokes. You'll either have to use a stencil for the copy and spray/roll it on, letter it first then cut in around all the new copy with a panel, or (what I'd probably do), bag the vinyl ink altogether and go with tie coat and enamels. Hope that made sense.
Posted by Ken Henry (Member # 598) on :
I wouldn't even attempt to clean this off. I'd scrub down the area, mask off what's there, and paint on some vinyl screen ink, thinned down, and with some aluminum powder added, as a "primer/blocker" coat. When that dried, I'd second coat it with straight white. Under no circumstances would I apply MEK, lacquer thinners, or any other "hot" type thinner to the vinyl fabric. This might dry out the plasticizers, causing the fabric to fail prematurely, and I wouldn't wish to be replacing one of those tarps. The revised lettering could then be applied over the covering patch, and I'd opt for using cut vinyl letters. To hand letter over that base would require triple-coating to get decent coverage, as the base layer would always bleed through a bit.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Joe Rees is correct in suggesting ticote and enamels. That is most likely what is on there now given the thickness of it. I have done a few of these myself. This material is begging for vinyl inks if like Joe said you are the first one there.
One thing I had run into is this material or materials that I worked on were extremely hard to get clean after being on the road for a given amount of time. I had used Ticote and enamels, but eventually failed because of poor adhesion. Not because of Ticote. but because of dirt.
I had done several test peices with positive results on new fabric with ticote and chromatic.
I no longer do these, I never seemed to get enough money to justify the agrivation.
Not to mention the company was a chore to deal with.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
I'm not gona say it will work, but you might try Rapid Remover.
It does take off some strange things, don't try it without "testing" a small area first.
If its going to work, it will in less then 2 minutes.
At least its a safe choice, not harmfull to your health like MEK, or LACQUER THINNER.
Roger Posted by James Caley (Member # 2743) on :
Don't even try to disolve that off!.what a mess!! I haver never looked at one of those up close and dont know how they are constructed, but an awning shop would be able to either sew in or heat seal in new panels I should think.An added benefit to that would be that you could work on JUST those panels, before they were put in.Getting to know an awning shop might bring you some work from them too. Use Naz-Dar VF series or some similar ink,.... mask with tape and use a roller.
Posted by Steve Nuttle (Member # 2645) on :
I'd price a new set of soft sides, do them, add 20% and call it good. Just a thought. Posted by Michael Boone (Member # 308) on :
Call the company that built the truck. One of my clients bought one of these trailers..the mfg. offered to install the logo on the curtains. If the mfg. doesnt do in house installation and printing..maybe they can give you a lead to someone who can help. Id bet a sewn patch would be good..I agree with Bob...its gonna be a bear to get used curtains clean. A canvas company or boat canvas shop will do a nice job
Posted by Airbrush Bobby (Member # 5) on :
I ran into a couple of those jobs before and the cheapest way out was to apply your graphic to a fresh piece of heavy outdoor grade reinforced vinyl (Like on billboards) and apply it (with contact cement or similar)over that graphic (like wallpaper)after the existing surface has been cleaned well and prepped. The existing logo has been burned well into the material...
Posted by Steve Spiry (Member # 2201) on :
Is there anyway you could flip them over and use the back?or switch the 2 sides and paint the backs?Just a thought. Steve Spiry Maddartist signs
Posted by Jeffrey Vrstal (Member # 2271) on :
Thanks, everyone, for all the great info on this. It does look like this was mask applied using a screen ink as the lettering and logo are fairly thick... much thicker than vinyl or paint.
Turning the curtain around will not work as there is obviously an "inside" and an "outside".
I had a feeling that this was pretty well embedded into the material and know well how red will come back to haunt me.
I like the patch idea... and checking with the manufacturer. I also think that the covering up with a coat or two of ink and then lettering with vinyl might work. I wondered about how the vinyl (high performance) would hold up as the curtain was folded open and closed over and over. Perhaps I just tell the guy that we may need to re-do it sooner with no guarantees.
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