Customer wants 20 logo decals(for customer install) 27.5'' x 8'' each with 22 letters and a graphic (practically a logo)
On my 24'' cutter it will take about: 40 sq ft vinyl 46 sq ft app. tape
vinyl 40@1.24= $49.60 tape 46@.13== $5.98 Total cost $55.58 Customer says he's been paying $3.75 EACH (intermediate vinyl)
20@3.75= $75.00 Total compensation for labor $19.42(minus overhead)
Do people in the free world really work that cheap?
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
He's not paying that little for 20 pieces. I suspect he has been getting them die-cut from another company when he ordered a much, much larger quantity.
Posted by Tasmus (Member # 445) on :
I'd tell him to quit wasting my time and go get 'em
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
No, Glenn, he told me he's been buying them 20 at the time @ 7.50 per set of two. He also said that he would show me the invoices. I told him that wouldn't be necessary but he insisted and left to go and get them. That was three hours ago. I had given him a price (@20pieces) of $13.10 each or $26.20 per set. Is that too high? I certainly can't compete with $7.50 per set.
Posted by Elaine Beauchemin (Member # 136) on :
Had a similar situation a few years ago. I ask the client why he wasn't going with the other shop. his answer was that the other shop wasn't in business anymore..
soooo..I told him that I want to stay in business and held on to my price...took him a couple of days ..but he came back and is a good customer from since then.
É
Posted by VICTORGEORGIOU (Member # 474) on :
Wayne, intermediate vinyl is about 30 cents psf so you are marking material up about 4 times. Now, there's nothing wrong with that. What you are interested in are the total dollars left for you after the bills are paid. The point is, margin on material is part of the total margin.
I would hold for the higher price at the risk of letting the business walk, but let me give you another way to think about it.
IF he comes in once a month and orders exactly the same thing, and IF you have a low cost person in the shop who can weed and tape this without tying up your valuable time, and IF this person can send you other business that is richer, THEN you might want to consider a slightly better price to gain the incremental work plus opportunity work.
My guess would be, his last shop bounced him,or was too slow, or had a quality problem, that's why he is at your door. Speed-Price-Quality: Choose two
Never take a job you can't make a living at. The time you spend on it is better spent looking for work you can make a living at. Vic G
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
Thanks Victor. The price I had given the customer was for high performance vinyl which costs me $.74 per sq, ft. Yes the cost I posted was with markup.
You are right, the customer did mention slow times, shoddy work, and product failure. Not to mention one of the shops which supposedly did them for that price is out of business. The other two are out of town.
For intermediate vinyl I would do them for $12.30 each.
That was my thought exactly, Elaine, when the customer mentioned the now defunct shop. I keep hearing time after time, from customers, about their ultra-low prices.
[ March 13, 2002, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
Posted by Mark Smith (Member # 298) on :
Wayne, hold out for your price. And let us know what happens!
Posted by Ryan E Young (Member # 2325) on :
Tell them what I tell my customers. I can sit on the couch and be broke.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Well, it can be done profitably. I did a little crunching.
Here are the "IF's"....
If he used Oracal 651 or equivilent.
If he used a high-speed plotter.
If he turned the entire job in no more than one hour -- from taking the order, producing it, and making out the invoice.
If his shop rate is $50 per hour.
If he doesn't mind "netting" 10% profit.
[ March 13, 2002, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
Posted by Brian Diver (Member # 1552) on :
Wayne,
I'd hold out for the price also. I think your price is a good one for that large of a sticker.
I recently had a company want a bunch of stickers from me and I thought they SHOULD be "cheap" because they were just stickers. I ran the size and vinyl pick through my EstiMate software (Thank you Mark) and came up with a figure I thought was way to high. So, I started figuring it out the old fashioned way (all material costs, how long it would take me to do 1, 10, 50, etc.) and I should have just stuck to the software's price as it was on target and took me 1/10th the time.
I thought my customer would choke at the price but they asked me to do the job.
Like Ryan, I tell folks that want low prices that - I can go out of business or go out of business really tired.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
As I was pondering my musings and getting amused by my ponderings, some questions popped into my tiny little mind.....
Why was he looking for an even lower price in the first place?
If you matched the price, why would he give it to you instead of the guy he had been getting from?
Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
I just did a bumper sticker job for a windshield replacement company.They wanted 100 3"x10"stickers in different colours.Charged him $200.00 and he had no complants.Stick to your guns!!!!
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
Glenn, He mentioned 3 different shops he had been getting the decals from: The first is out of business. One left town abouty a month ago. The other one is about 40 miles away in Alabama.
I suppose he wanted someplace more convenient since his place of business is only 4 miles or so from here.
Thanks all
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Ahhhh...that explains it.
Stick to your guns.
Posted by Robb Lowe (Member # 2121) on :
I must be doing something wrong here...
Using Estimate, I'm coming up with a price range of $4.41 to 5.60 (intermediate vs. premium) per sticker.
My shop rate is $65.00
We're talking 1 1/2 hours of time which sounds plenty fair. We're talking hardly anything in materials.
You didnt say if it was a basic logo, or 50 very skinny letters.
Deferring to the program here, how do you guys get those low teen numbers???
Am I missing something? Help!
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
wayne iam glad you posted where the other shops where...figured they wher here in pcola,,,,,"where everything is cheaper"....hahahahaha
Posted by Gary Wiant (Member # 1421) on :
I had a similar experience, I do motorcross graphics A customer can in & wanted a price on a complete set, 2 shrouds, front & rear fender, Front & Side # plates. I gave him a price of $220 he said he was getting them for $58 ( out of state ) for the entire set. I told him to go ahead & get them done. He called back the next day & said because I was local he would have me do it. Like I figured, trying to low ball me.
STICK TO YOUR GUNS
Later Gary
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
Rob, Based on 1.5 hrs time and my cost for materials(vinyl and tape). I'm coming up with about $47.97/hr without marking up materials. Which ain't bad for this area. With materials marked up I'm figuring about $37/hr.
Yes the thing is a logo.
I'm just wondering if I need to reconfigure my pricing. Thanks
Posted by Robb Lowe (Member # 2121) on :
consider this a bump up for the guys who havent explained their arrival at the low-teen numbers.
Thanks in advance,
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Well, I did some more number crunching.
The key is going to be low "overhead."
If your hourly rate is $30 per hour based on the article by Jeff Cahill, and you can talk to the client, take the order, create the file, cut it weed it, mask it, trim it, and make out the invoice with in 1.5 hours, it can be done. And, it can be done with reasonable profit.
***************
I also think it is the way many shops are calculating their jobs. One of my newer competitors prices their cut vinyl by the linear foot. This particular one is charging $3.50 per sq. ft for cast vinyl and $2 per sq. ft. for calendared.
This does not include installation.
[ March 16, 2002, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
